Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Chevyonfuel, Nov 20, 2012.
so what we need is a calibrated X35-55-75-95 shootout
anyone up for that
Well as you mentioned it, you're welcome to send me all 4 so I can check them out...I reckon it might take me about 3 years though.
I would like to see the X35 and X55 (Eshift OFF) side by side just to see if my theory is correct. If was being really cynical I'd wonder if JVC have made the Eshift off function in 2D deliberately softer to help show off the improvement, but I'm not that much of a 'tin foil' hat wearer.
thank you Kelvin . Couldn't expect better reply ! Respect!
I dropped in to see Paul at HiFi Lounge to say hello and ended up getting roped in to lifting his x55 up on to the shelf! On the bright side (no pun intended) I got to see him setting it all up and had a good look at a couple of clips too. I have to say I was utterly blown away by the image quality, black levels and detail that was immediately obvious. As Paul mentioned on a previous page the difference between the various e-shift2 modes was startling - the detail levels in the best mode were amazing. I'm signed up to his JVC day next month and will look forward to seeing it again, then asking my bank manager for a loan.....
I took possession yesterday of an RS4810 (same of course as the X55). The very first thing I checked was with eShift2 off to see how the convergence was and how straight 1080P looked compared to my outgoing, very sharp RS50. I was really surprised to see it looked markedly sharper even the the RS50. And to me it certainly looks very sharp. Just thought I would share that. Don't know where the 1080P looking softer came from but I recall reading it as well.
The eShift on this projector is amazing. No noise and you can move the slider on the "Enhance" function very high in fact if that's to your liking. My favorite 4K upconverted mode is "Film". I think you would love this thing.
It must be down to the Eshift making it look worse in the same way as turning the Darbee off, rather than 1080p actually being soft. Good to hear you have good convergance, I hope my X35 will have too when it comes on Saturday.
So, X55-owners, what picture settings are you using?
Nearly a week of X55 ownership and I eventually got round to having a proper look at the 3D aspects of the PJ. Whilst 3D is a bit of marmite feature for many, I've always enjoyed the additional depth and immersion that well constructed 3D features allow.
The bad bits...
The glasses, whilst they don't lose sync, are a bit hit & miss to sync in the first place. I don't know of a way to get them paired permanently with the RF transmitter, as at the moment, each time you engage 3D mode, the specs have to be paired individually. I have friends over occasionally for film nights, so syncing 8 pairs of specs can be time consuming.
Crosstalk is an issue; coming from the HD33 which was practically free of all crosstalk, this was a hard pill to swallow - having tried numerous demo discs which are judged to be crosstalk free in terms of their content, they highlight any underlying PJ issues.
The cross talk canceller does work a small amount, and in conjunction with turning off the Darblet, you can view 3D with an absence of crosstalk generally, the trade-off being the image is a little less punchy. Adjusting the parallax can help, but again at the expense of a punchy, rounded image.
Motion in 3D isn't great, and the CMD function is greyed out when viewing 3D so you cant do a lot about it. This was where the Optoma's PureMotion engine helped, particularly in slow to medium paced panning (fast motion suffered all manner of artefact issues on the HD33).
The good bits...
When you've done the necessary steps to eliminate crosstalk (and remembered to set the gamma profile to 3D), the image itself is staggeringly detailed in 3D. For me the holy grail in 3D has always been to put the viewer in the mindset that they feel they're watching something naturally, and not something that's been artificially adjusted to provide extra depth. So many 3D systems try and force feed you depth and pop in their images, so much so that they look false and ‘put on'. The X55 (IMO) is able to strike the right balance where it has a film look, but with the depth and immersion you cannot normally achieve in 2D.
Based on the 3D performance, do I regret the upgrade? Not in the slightest – for some it might be game over if there's mention of crosstalk, but there are ways of reducing it (as good as the Darblet is, for me it's not as helpful in 3D as it only accentuates any crosstalk present). The amount of 3D viewing I do has tailed off dramatically since the early days anyway. I used to buy 3D features regardless of their content (it would be films I'd have no interest in seeing at all, other than a technical standpoint). These days, so much rubbish is produced in 3D (or converted to), it's diluted it and become a bit less special.
Fortunately with releases like Dredd 3D next month (a stonking film, with excellent 3D set pieces), and Life of Pi due out next year, there'll still be those magical experiences available (for the whole family to enjoy, and for us as AV enthusiasts to suspend belief for a couple of hours and be taken on a journey somewhere through a film medium that's genuinely enveloping), but the overriding feeling I have from viewing a mixture of content on the X55 is this:
4K is the daddy; whether it's e-shift2, reality creation or other, it's an outstanding way to view your favourite films. I really cannot emphasise how impressive it is to see a well mastered Blu-Ray upscaled to 4K. It will no doubt become to go to scene for demos; the bomb chase scene in TDKR – the clarity, detail, motion and general feel of the image, is staggering.
D A N; Regarding settings - I've left everything as it was out of the box, aside from upping the enhance on the 4K profile (set to film), reducing the smoothness to sharpen it a touch, and upped the contrast a small amount. The Iris is set to 8, and gamma profile set to B. Full calibration in the New Year will sort it out properly, but it looks bloomin marvellous in 'plug & play' form
Thats pretty much the same settings i ended up with yesterday evening, the first two hours of fiddeling with my X55
I went from the good old Epson TW2000 from 2007, and you could say that everything is very different. Much better black levels and much brighter image at the same time, even with the iris half closed, much better build quality and premium feel, the Epson is like a toy in comparison. A wonderful machine plain and simple.
It's killing us Phil... how much longer for at least your initial impressions on the X75!? I'm dyin in the USA!
My X35 arrived about half an hour ago, big thanks to Ricky at Kalibrate as I only ordered at about 10pm on Thursday night. Here are a few photos while I wait for the projector to acclimatise to the warmth of my house. It's a bit bigger than the HD350, so I need to modify my A lens shelf (still haven't fitted my new floating shelf ) which will keep me busy for a while longer to avoid temptation of turning it on too soon.
It certainly looks good in white. Mines a black one - I was worried a white one would go yellow over time (I tend to keep my gear for a while). Shouldn't have been worried about that - looks very classy.
A question - why would you nee to let it acclimatise ? I had mine a couple of days in the house before I powered it on, so I'm only wondering why for future reference.
I'm very much looking forward to hearing you views on the new machine. It certainly surprised me when I saw the size of it - it's bigger and heavier than I was expecting.
I have a little more installation work to do than you, however, as I'm ripping out all the component cables and replacing with a Cat6 balun system for HDMI. At the same time were channeling in the rear 7.1 speaker cables and front presence speaker cables for the Yamaha 2010 I rashly got at the same time. It's rther messy in here at the moment, but I'm hoping all the effort will be worthwhile.
Just letting it warm up incase of condensation (I could see some on the lens when I removed the cover) and the case was very cold. Probably overkill, but won't do any harm to wait (a little) longer. Just going to modify my lens shelf bracket so it can fit round the fatter X35. By the time I'd done that I'm sure it'll be warm enough to go.
Might struggle to keep my eyes open in the dark though after last night's partying.
My father once told me that you can give up drink, smoking and dirty women, but you won't live any longer, it just feels like it.
I'm going to take a few pics of the install and get them posted.
Just done a very basic set up (the lamp will no doubt settle over the first 100 hours anyway): Just gone for a User setting, 6500K, custom gamma at 2.2, Standard colour space and everything else is still at zero after a quick check with AVS HD709. There is an extra 'Black level' setting that I will have a play with later: There is a bit of light getting past my curtains as it's bright day here, so hard to tell what the setting does.
The very good news is that at these basic settings (and my Lumagen in circuit, but set to 'neutral') I can hit 94 Lux with the aperture down to -15. This gives me 12-14fL and maximum contrast (~50,000:1) due to the minimum zoom/minimum iris setting. I have to open it up to -8 for 2.35:1 content with my lens (the steps seem to give smaller increments than my HD350 did), so less contrast in this wider aperture setting.
A quick watch of the start of Casino Royale (the last disc I watched on my HD350) shows that motion is smoother even with the CMD set to 'off'. It may not be as good as the Sony, but I still appreciate the improvement (HD350 never bothered me on this score, but I can see this is better). The picture is very sharp (again a nice improvement over the HD350) and convergence looks good, though I moved the Horizontal Blue setting one click to the right as it seems a hair sharper using a white grid test pattern from the Lumagen.
I've set up a 1.85:1 lens memory for use without my lens and another for 2.35:1 with my lens in place. It takes a few seconds to adjust but in practice by the time I've moved the lens (it's on a stand) the projector will have adjusted ready for whichever aspect I'm viewing. A side bonus with my particular installation is that the image for 2.35:1 can be made slightly smaller than with my HD350, so I can reduce the masking applied in my Lumagen.
The remote sensor must be in a different place or is more sensitive than my HD350 as with my Lens in place I no longer struggle to get the remote to work, which is another nice improvement for me.
Will do some more tweaking later I expect once it gets a bit darker. Merlin and Strictly will no doubt be my son and OH's choices respectively, so I'll just sit and marvel (I hope) at the improved blacks and smoother motion.
I've had my 'white' 350 now for just over 3 years, and it's shell is still a white as white can be.
So have the films improved or is it just do darn cold to work on your RS
I haven't played much with the settings yet on mine - but from your post it seems that you are saying lamp will settle (stabilise?) after it has been run in for approx 100 hours. So you wouldn't bother trying to calibrate it until that time has elapsed as the machine hasn't levelled out somewhat.
What is a lumagen ? Not come across them yet.
Yes a bit chilly and I have the Z3 as well, so less incentive to get the RS back on the road as a change from driving my work diesel estate. Good to hear that the white shell stays white: Maybe one day I might try to buy a used X95 and reshell it.
On my H350 the lamp changed quite a bit over the first 100 hours, but as I have my own calibration equipment I just kept redoing it every 25-30 hours. There's no harm in doing the basic contrast and brightness setting up though as this won't really change if the lamp dims a bit/colour temperature drifts. This isn't perculiar to JVC projectors as all UHP lamp powered projectors tend to do this.
The Lumagen is an external video processor that does all the upscaling, deinterlacing, cropping, etc that many displays can do...only better. It also provides a 21 point greyscale/gamma control and a 125 point CMS (I'd need an X55 if I wanted a built in CMS on a JVC). I think they are about £1,500 now so it's a major investment, but mine also feeds 2 TVs so effectively gives near perfect calibration results on 3 displays, so I feel it's worth it for me. As the colour gamut is much more accurate on the X series compared to the older HD series, then a CMS isn't quite so important unless you are particularly picky.
Clocked up 10 hours on my X35 today. Can't stop watching things on it, which is a good sign. I have watched BBC 1 HD early evening with Strictly and Merlin looking really sharp and notably better blacks than last week with the HD350. Note this is with the room untreated, so once I start getting some black material up round the screen and side walls it's going to look even better.
Finished Casino Royale and then watched the newer version of the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, so a bit of a Daniel Craig evening. The opening titles of GWTDT looked really good on the X35 with a sequence of faces dripping with black oil like liquid. I'll try it again back on the HD350, but I'm sure it won't look as stunning. I saw details in Casino Royale that I hadn't noticed before, so this was good to see improvement on a familiar film.
Oh well, time for bed, so I'll have to turn it off now.
Tonight was the SWMBO test, and as she had never seen it, Avatar in 3D was the choice of material. For the first time since I originally watched it, I found it quite enjoyable. Only a few instances of crosstalk that were less apparent than on Tron Legacy. Oddly enough, I noticed the 4k profile is still adjustable in 3D.
Anyway, the OH's most memorable comment... "did he really ponytail rape 2 birds and a horse then?".
Interesting about the 4K profile. Wonder why. HA!! on her comment.
Well that's certainly something you don't hear everyday. It was the James Cameron version of the film you were watching wasn't it ?
I must admit we all found the X35 incredibly addictive when we set it up temporarily. However, we are all now thoroughly covered in plaster and brick dust from channelling out for the new wiring, and feeling a little bit - am I sure this was all a good idea ? - at the moment. It should all be done by next weekend, at which point I'm sure we all be happy. But the house is full of plaster and brick dust. Plastering today, new flooring on Monday, skirting boards on Tuesday, painting on Wednesday and Thursday, Christmas tree up on Friday and movie night on Saturday. And a full weeks work too.
However, I've now got a 9.1 speaker system wired in the walls ready to be connected and a new amp to partner the X35. I am looking forward to next week. I am so happy with what the X35 produces however. I haven't seen the x55, or x75, so they must be pretty special for the extra cost. Or maybe my eyes aren't what they were ! It may also be that I am easily pleased, but I'm not sure the wife would agree. I must admit, however, it has been remarkably good fun getting this all set up (well maybe not the plastering and decorating bits ) and one of the highlights has been the forum chinwags, and mountains of good advice freely handed out in these very forums.
As a result of all that advice, as they say in the movies "you have chosen...... Wisely".
I would also like to publicly thank TMF solutions who do the Octava cat 5 to Hdmi thingummywhatsit. I temporarily rigged it up and had a few noob issues. The support given was simply superb and I can't recommend the company and it's range doobries enough. Thanks guys ,
Anyway, if anyone in East Yorkshire has a thing about emulsion (there's bound to one or two !) they are more than welcome to grab a brush (Shall I not hold my breath ?)
When I get my computer rigged up (on the iPad at the moment) ill post some pics.
So all in all - bigbthumbs up for the x35
Sounds like a nice bit of honeymoon phase going on for us new X35/55 owners, long may it continue.
It occurred to me that last night was probably the best quality I'll see from my X35 (even if not calibrated) because the first night you sit noticing the various improvements over your previous projector. I remember watching Titanic on my HD350 the first night and couldn't believe how good the black sky, etc looked in the rescue scenes at the end (sorry for the spoiler there ). Of course watching it again 2-3 years later it didn't look so impressive, so I think I become harder to please in the meantime.
I still can't believe that this time last week I hadn't even seen the X55 demo and here I am a week later with a brand new X35 feeling pleased with my purchase.
Kudos to RickyJ for getting it to me so quickly (perhaps he didn't want to give me chance to change my mind yet again as I set off asking him about a used X30, then X35, then X55, then a Sony VW50 demo was on the cards).
Late last night I had a fade to black and noticed a single really bright green pixel, so I walked up to the screen and saw literally hundreds of red and blue pixels lit up and started to panic...Then I woke up. I think I've got this new projector too much on my mind to be having dreams (nightmares?) about it.
Hello there, I've heard that JVC is going to release an important correcting firmware regarding a big issue occuring on the 3D. Apparently you need a special wire to do this update with the necessity of dismantle the cover..
Have you heard of something ?
Haven't heard anything of a required firmware update. I'd expect to just have plug the ethernet port in if it's just a firmware jobbie.
On the subject of 3D - it's good when you read the destruction manual and correct the 3D presets to something that looks a bit more sensible (gamma in 3D is preset a little out).
GROBI - die Grossbildspezialisten
that's the place about this update. You'll have to translate
There seems to be a bug in the 3D firmware on the X35 only, which requires the unit to be sent back to JVC as this 3D f/w cannot be upgraded by the end user or the dealer (it's not the usual, user-upgradable f/w). This bug causes more ghosting than it should in 3D, and doesn't affect 2D. This has not been confirmed by JVC yet but I'm sure GaryB will let us know tomorrow (monday).
All to be confirmed by JVC/your dealer, so do not take any action yet.
I haven't even hung the blinking thing from the ceiling yet !
Well there's no way it's going back before Christmas for this upgrade, otherwise I may get hurt ( the OH you understand ). In fact it looks I've I'll either get crosstalk from the PJ if it doesn't go back before Christmas, or from 'another source' if it does. (If you know what I mean).
To be fair however, you tend to expect this sort of thing with a hot off the press model. It just seems crazy that a firmware upgrade cannot be done by an end user. In this day and age it seems rather silly. Unless they are going to do something as well as upgrade the firmware.......
I read about this over on AVS, but as I haven't even bought the glasses or emitter I don't know whether I'd want to bother sending mine back in.
[Waits 3 years for someone to dig up this post and point out that I never had the update done when I try to sell it. ]
Separate names with a comma.