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Just who will buy the A1SR?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by russraff, Mar 5, 2002.

  1. russraff

    russraff
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    I have been reading the threads concerning the latest Denon amps, in particular the A1SR. I have come to the following concerns:
    If you are after sound quality or flexibility then surely, at that price (£3200?), a seperate pre/power would be the way to go? I can't see anyone who isn't interested in those things getting the A1SR, and half those that are interested, probably already have quite a good rig. They may even already have the A1SE or Onkyo 989. Would buying the A1SR be worth it? After all, not everyone will be able to upgrade, expensive as it is, the Denon A1SE (though Onkyo owners seem to be covered). So:

    Who will buy the A1SR?

    Just a thought - Russell
     
  2. mjn

    mjn
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    not me.....prefer pre/power combo at this price
     
  3. Jase

    Jase
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    I´ve got the A1SE, so i´ll get the upgrade. However, if I had 3 grand or so I´d be looking at a Pre/Power combo.

    I think Denon need to have a look at their pricing structure.
     
  4. MarkB

    MarkB
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    The sound quality of the AVC-A1SR should be better than the AVC-A1SE due to the fastest processors available and the best 24bit/192kHz ADCs on all analogue inputs and all channel differential mode 24bit/192kHz DACs. Remember that the A1SE gives a lot of processor/power combos a run for their money.

    The processing core of the AVC-A1SR will be twice that of the AVC-A11SR, which itself is no slouch. This also applies to the upgrade although the full 24bit/192kHz conversion on all channels of the 2 8 channel inputs won’t apply.

    Personally speaking, I prefer integrated amps to processor/power combos. I have been lobbying DENON to make a processor/power combination since they first announced the A1SE and I believe that they are now seriously looking into it, but for me, I'll still buy the integrated version. Personal choice.

    So in answer to your question - the answer is (someone like) me! :)

    Mark
     
  5. infomatique

    infomatique
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    I certainly will give it very serious consideration however I am open to suggestions regarding alternative solutions.
     
  6. russraff

    russraff
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    Jase:

    Yes, the upgrade does work out cheaper. But still - £600?!? How can Onkyo do this for next to nothing, and Denon need to charge a fortune? The A1SE is still a nice amp though.

    MarkB:

    Yes I know what you are saying about the processors and ADC's (though having a fast processor doesn't mean that it will be any good - look at the Musical Fidelity Processor). You are the elusive market sector that I was looking for; why do you prefer one box solutions? Don't you feel that the one box approach is a compromise?

    infomatique:

    Alternatives? There is the tried and tested (and much better than any integrated design) Tag Processor with Rotel Amp. You could even get a brace of Nad 216's if you don't like the Rotel sound. There is quite a lot of ex- display Lexicon DC-1's for £1800 - £2000 depending on configuration, as well as Meridian 500 series processors. Both are just as good as Tag, and Meridian in particular have very good service. Then, there is the Onkyo 989 and the Harman/Kardon 8500, but these may not be as good as the A1SR (haven't heard them).

    Sorry, forgot the Pioneer AX10 amp. Looks like a killer piece of equipment. Should be around £2500-£2800, I think.

    Russraff
     
  7. Reiner

    Reiner
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    I wouldn't buy it, at least EUR1000 too expensive.

    Though I was "eyeing" towards Denon (the latest Yamaha range isn't that appealing), especially their flag-ship amps, but at that price a pre-power combo seems more sensible.
    Alternatively, if I am on a tight budget, something like the AVC-11SR would do.
     
  8. MarkB

    MarkB
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    I quite agree, but in this case it allows THX Ultra decoding of dts ES DISCREET 6.1 and dts 24/96, so in an indirect fashion the speed of the processors (can) give rise to better sound. That's if you like THX that is!

    I don’t think I'm that elusive. There are forums dedicated to all the DENON flagships and the enquiries/interest on the AVC-A1SR forum is very strong. I'll post a link to comments on the AVC-A1SE forum. They might be biased, but it is a pretty good read none the less.
    http://pub7.ezboard.com/faussiedvda...formationforum.showMessage?topicID=1074.topic

    As to why I want an all in one solution – probably for the same reason that I want an all in one DVD-A/DVD-A/SACD/HDCD/CD/CD-V/CD-R/CD-RW/MP3/MP3PRO player!

    For some reason I just prefer it.

    Mark
     
  9. Reiner

    Reiner
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    You forgot SVCD. :D
     
  10. Jase

    Jase
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    russraff

    Onkyo´s upgrade was only for PL2.

    The A1SE upgrade needed faster processors to cope with the DTS 96/24 format. 600 quid is a lot of money but worth IMO.

    Processing power wise it will only be bettered by the Lexicon MC12 and Meridian (possibly the new Tag but I´m not definite).

    The only feature missing that I would have liked is something like the Room Calibration Equaliser that the new Pioneer flagship has. Maybe they´ll get that sorted in the future.

    cheers
     
  11. MarkB

    MarkB
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    DENON are working on/looking into this.

    Mark
     
  12. Jase

    Jase
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    Mark

    Interesting, where did you hear this??
     
  13. Lowrider

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    Sorry to intrude, but you keep writting "IMO", what does that mean... :confused:
     
  14. Jase

    Jase
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    IMO

    In My Opinion.

    cheers
     
  15. Reiner

    Reiner
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    Onkyo´s upgrade was only for PL2.

    IMHO *) it also included DTS ES Discrete.


    *) In my humble opinion
     
  16. MarkB

    MarkB
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  17. russraff

    russraff
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    MarkB:
    Thats a couple of interesting threads. I suppose Denon should be applauded for embarking on such an extensive upgrade program. I know Meridian and Lexicon have been doing it for years, but to my knowledge, Denon are the only ones that have produced an integrated amp upgrade. I still think Denon should have released a software only upgrade for a more moderate amount, as well as a hardware one.

    Russraff
     
  18. MarkB

    MarkB
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    I think it is a superb upgrade. Basically it brings the 2 year old flagship up to the 2002 flagship model. The only things that the upgraded KAVC-A1SE will not have that the AVC-A1SR will are video up-conversion and 8 channel external in bass management & DSP.
    The original speculation that the unit will not perform on screen volume indication is (apparently) unfounded.

    Mark
     
  19. Kane D Williams

    Kane D Williams
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    Mark

    Do you know if the AVC A1SR will be able to defeat the A/D conversion of the 8ch EXT inputs? Some people will want the signal "pure" and taken directly to the power amps, as is the case now with the A1SE.

    Also, are you sure that this 24/192 smapling feature will not be a part of the A1SE upgrade? I will also try to ask DenonJeff.

    It was I who asked him about an upgrade offering EQ on all channels for sorting out room modes etc. I was glad to hear it may be on the cards, as this will make a very tasty upgrade!

    Cheers Kane
     
  20. MarkB

    MarkB
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    Kane,
    All channel 24bit/192kHz conversion on the 8 CH EXT IN is by all accounts one of the only things that the AVC-A1SR will have over the KAVC-A1SE. That and video up-conversion.

    The KAVC-A1SE will allow 24bit/192kHz A to D conversion through the stereo inputs, I believe that the AVC-A1SE currently uses 24bit/96kHz.

    I posted a message on the DennonJeff forum and Jeff stated that there will be a defeat option on the AVC-A1SR for the 8 CH EXT IN A to D conversion that was not on the AVC-A1SE (because the 8 CH EXT IN on the AVC-A1SE has no conversion). I have a feeling that Pure Direct will work on the 8 CH EXT IN and bypass too, you can engage Pure Direct even now on the A1SE to switch off DSP, the Video block and the display. I'm pretty sure you can engage this on the A11SR too, contrary to Alvin Gold's criticism in the What Video review.

    The AVC-A1SR will remember Pure Direct mode and not default back to Direct (for stereo sources) or standard 8 CH EXT IN (for 8 CH EXT IN sources).

    The room EQ is an excellent idea and I'm pleased that DENON are looking onto it. I expect we will see this in the next flagship – AVC-A1XR ?!

    Mark
     
  21. Kane D Williams

    Kane D Williams
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    Do you know if all digital inputs are also upsampled to 24/192?

    Cheers Kane
     
  22. MarkB

    MarkB
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    Kane,
    I don't know about up-sampling as such, but I believe that AL24 Plus processing works in the 24bit/96kHz -/192kHz domain to "smooth" the 16bit/*kHz signal waveform and increase resolution on the digital inputs.

    I did have some info on AL24 (and AL24 Plus) but i cant find it. :rolleyes:
    Mark
     

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