Just Seen the Sony 11ht and the 10Ht together

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by neo-uk, Nov 18, 2001.

  1. neo-uk

    neo-uk
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    hi all like many people here we are looking for that perfect projector well i might have found a good one MAYBE!.

    I just had a demo of the new sony 11ht with the new 700-1 contrast ratio and had a look at the older brother the 10ht 300-1 contrast ratio and heres what i think.

    I have looked at alot an i mean alot of projectors about 10 i think
    and the best 4.3 projector for blacks is the sanyo-plv30 but its the
    worst picture for the screen door effect its realy bad
    The best 4.3 projector for picture is the sony VPL its realy good colourfull and vibrant and realy no screen door at all but the blacks are not the best i have seen better even on leser models
    i dont know why sony did not stick in a 500 ansi it would have been fantastic if thay did

    so for a £2000 to £2300 projector the sanyo-plv30 and sony plv
    projectors are the only realy good 4.3 projectors out there all otheres are just the same sort of picture with no real inprovements

    now to the Sony 11ht and 10ht

    the sony 10ht is still one of the best projectors out there even though its 3 years old it realy has a fatastic picture and only the sanyo-plv 30 can beat it in the blacks department.

    then i seen the 11ht well i was disapointed in this projector thay say its 50% darker blacks i dont think so it was very slight but i would say about 15% to 20% darcker not much in it at all
    the picture was abit more colourfull but not much the picture quality is the same same sharpness and detail as the 10ht

    so here it is the 11ht is about 15% to 20% better blacks but its very slight diffrence from the 10ht and the picture seemed to be slight better colour and vibrant but thie is the question

    a new 10ht boxed you can get for £3500 to £4000 but the stocks are getting low

    a new 11ht you can get for £4700 to £5000

    but its only slight for a £1200 to £1500 diffrence i dont think so
    i think sony should have not bothered to release the sony 11ht as it has very littile diffrence thay should have droped the sony 10ht in price and kept it going well if you want to see it
    its at newcaslte global hi-fi centre i hope someone can see it amd post there opinions about it

    i hope to get a 10ht but if i can not i will have to settle for the 11ht unless someone brings out a projector of a sanyo plv30 blacks and the picture quality or the sony vpl for £2500 this i would say would be better than the 11ht because the sanyo plv30 has the best blacks on any projector but the sony has the best picture on the sony vpl but these to projectors together and you have a real good winner

    hope to hear from you all

    neo
     
  2. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
    Editor Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2001
    Messages:
    10,285
    Products Owned:
    3
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    AVForums
    Ratings:
    +8,571
    Neo,

    As many know i am a crt fan, but i did look at the 10Ht for some time, and i was very pleased with the picture, apart from the blacks. I found the picture very watchable, and had i not seen Jeff Crawford's home cinema room with a barco 808, i proberly would have bought a Sony LCD. The Event at Glasgow just confirmed for me i had made the better choice, going for crt, but i still like the Sony and would recommend it to anyone with WAF problems.

    As for the 10ht at Global Hi Fi in Newcastle, it is a dud! When mick changed the bulb, he did something to the set up of the machine, and it has looked very poor since. I also had a look at the new Yamaha DLP upstairs, and what an expensive waste of money! No fine detail in the picture, bad black levels and loads of the dreaded Rainbow Effect! For £6500! Give me a break!

    For Fixed Panel PJ'S the best two imho is the Sony and Sim200DM.
    But if you have no WAF factor to worry about and can house one, check out the secondhand CRT market, you will get more PJ for your money full stop!:p
     
  3. neo-uk

    neo-uk
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    @THX 1138

    yes i know i had to set it up abit better for mick he had some of the setting well out the bulb on that one is 1110 hrs now its had a hammering hes got the 11ht upstars now hope you go and see it and let me know what you think
     
  4. WSquared

    WSquared
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2001
    Messages:
    215
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    Ratings:
    +3
    I had a demo of the 11HT the other day. Unfortunatley, it was on a very high gain glass-beaded screen. However, even on that screen, I could tell that the blacks were better than the 10HT that I saw up at "the event" in Scotland.

    There are a few other differences between the 11HT & the 10HT:
    1. Better filtration system. throw away filters and a clog/change indicator.
    2. The DRC now includes 3:2 pull down for de-interlacing NTSC.
    3. Ability to bypass the internal video deinterlacing/scaling when used with a PC in 1366(8)x768. There is a lot of discussion about this on AVSforum, but it has been verified at 1368x768.
    4. Better blacks
    5. Longer bulb life, They are using a different bulb.
    6. New LCD panels: less chance of dead pixes, and a tiny bit less chicken wire effect.

    Also, the price I have been given for it is £4300 in VAT.

    I think I have just convinced myself to buy it.
     
  5. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    17,152
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1,276
    Neo

    Thanks for the report. Interesting. To call the great 10ht a projector with 300:1 contrast ratio is VERY generous IMHO, some people have measured it in the two figure range, let alone three. It depends how you measure it.

    I agree on most points on the PLV 30 though I never noticed chicken wire problem. No more than any other LCD machine (Sony 400 excepted). To me this is still the one to beat at the cheap end.

    One day I will write down exactly what I think a SVGA, XGA and wide XGA projectors should be able to do, some are close but few hit the 'Home Cinema' mark at the moment.

    I still think the 200DM is about the best to date, especially when fed with a progressive signal, it is just too expensive IMHO. Sim2 seem to be best at understanding what the HC market needs but some one needs to mass market something.
     
  6. Metric

    Metric
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    the 10ht is a great projector, thats why i bought one, i grow tired of the crt boys
     
  7. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
    Editor Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2001
    Messages:
    10,285
    Products Owned:
    3
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    AVForums
    Ratings:
    +8,571
    Why? I have quoted saying i think it is a fine PJ(sony) and that i would recommend one to anybody who cant fit a crt into their rooms.

    But if you are trying to say that The Sony 10ht is better than a CRT, well we all know which PJ will win hands down, and as hard as you may not like the fact CRT will always win for the time being, thats not an opinion, i think it is pretty much a fact.

    But i will agree that i am getting tired of the CRT vs Lcd/dlp/dila arguements. The quality issue is pretty obvious, before you take into consideration living enviroment cost etc, which i will always quote as the riding factor in most peoples mind who are married, got kids, and dont want a car on their ceiling, The sony and others are fine comprimises.........yes note the word comprimises.

    I have not a bad thing to say about most LCD etc, and if i was married:eek: with kids, or just no room, then i am sure i would buy the Sony or Sim, but i would still know what technology was the best.

    End of rant, theres nothing left to see here folks move along:D :p
     
  8. leon

    leon
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2001
    Messages:
    1,158
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    kent
    Ratings:
    +67
    interesting reading
    i am currently running a 3years old sony vpl400qm which has given me excelent performance over the years ,so in my case jumping to the 11ht in 2 weeks should be a major picture upgrade for me . Also im ordering the stewart grey hawk with tension bars that should make my black levels abit better ,,,,,,

    one little problem i have does anyone no where the air intake is
    for the 11/10ht i need to make sure clean air is gettiing in there and not smoke from the cigaretes,i bypassed this problem with
    my 400qm by putting it into a hush box.
     
  9. LV426

    LV426
    Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    13,570
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Somewhere in South Yorkshire
    Ratings:
    +6,085
    I've never seen a VW11, but, based on the initial comments above, I suspect that you can achieve a similar improvement to the overall black level on a VW10 using the CC20R filter idea. I have done this tomine, at a total outlay of about £15, plus half an hour's setup effort. And it's VERY effective. If those initial comments are anything to go by, I'd suggest saving the thousand or two pounds, get a VW10, and then do the pink filter thing.
     
  10. Paul D

    Paul D
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2000
    Messages:
    2,789
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +552
    Leon, the air vent for the sony is:-

    If ceiling mounted(upside down), and your facing the lens. The air intake vent(including filter) is then on the top of the projector, on the left hand side.
     
  11. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    14,216
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +3,071
  12. Paul D

    Paul D
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2000
    Messages:
    2,789
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +552
    The big black hole next to the lens is the exhaust.;)
     
  13. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    14,216
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +3,071
    Paul: I take it all back.....you will be right. I will now go outside and beat myself with a stick.....then the next time we meet you can beat me:(
     
  14. neo-uk

    neo-uk
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    @WSquared i did not say the 11ht blacks was not better i just said that its not £1000 to £1200 better black now is it
    its just slight its not like WOW that is realy black its just a littile darcker nothing to cry about so thats why the 1oht is a better deal and for the filter its just as good on the 10ht as it is on the 11ht because you can now buy the 11ht filter system for the 10ht so that rules that out and who cares about running a pc on one of these i would not runn m,y pc on one for hours surfing the net i can tell you and this new panels with les dead pixels is crap i looked at the 11ht and it still had dead pixels and even so the gride is that fine its very hard to see dead pixels on the sony 10ht and 11ht so realy the only thing is better is the 3000hr bulbs life compared to the 10ht 2000hr the only diffrence between the 10ht and 11ht is the bulb life and slighty better blacks buts its slight its not hugh or look at the 11ht its deep blacks NOT! look at a 700:1 dlp its loads darker then the sony 11ht all i`m saying is its not worht 1000 quid more no way is it
    if you can still get a new 10ht go for it but as my money is abit tight at the mo i will have to wait and by then anyway i will prob go for the 11ht becasue the 10ht will be gone its just for people who want to get one

    if you live near newcastle go to global hi-fi thya have both the 11ht and 10ht on show take a look and tell me what you think
     
  15. Metric

    Metric
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    at no point did i mention your name, however, the sony is a great projector, and i think perception has a big part in what each of us consider the best, for example i prefer a tft screen however most think a crt superior.

    and yes, in certain applications the sony IS a better projector

    I dont have to justify my purchase, its what i wanted for my own situation, but i am SICK and TIRED of crt owners banging on about anything other than crt being crap because evidently both have their markets.

    my rant over
     
  16. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    17,152
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1,276
    Metric

    I thought this about communicating the pros and cons of the latest Sony projector to the many interested potential owners. It was an account of the opinions of the original poster. There are loads of people interested in getting a panel projector out there, myself included, who are anious for any info they can get on the latest model. These things are expensive and we all don't want to make the wrong decision. No one has to justify what they currently have or defend their decisons. Everyone knows the pros and cons of the Sony, no one was having a pop.

    Chill out and enjoy it.:D Life is too short to drink cheap wine.
     
  17. Metric

    Metric
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    seems to be the general theme through the projector forum...

    ps im very chilled
     
  18. Paul D

    Paul D
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2000
    Messages:
    2,789
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +552
    Nic.
    Are you not going to use your NEC CRT?.:(
     
  19. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    17,152
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1,276
    I have plans to use the CRT ASAP, unfortunately I have suffered a small set back (actually make that large set back). The house purchase has fallen through,and we missed a second one we are interested in. I now have to accept that nothing is likely to happen until march with twins on route, therefore I am investigating getting a second projector. A panel based one. I have seen many on the market and know what I want. I don't want to spend a fortune and have some specific requirements on what I need. Unlike some who see the CRT / LCD/DLP thing as an either or I see it like lp and cd. I have both and enjoy both, however if either or both lp/cd players are lacking in certain departmens then I will say so rather than trying to hide something. People are always better off knowing the facts.

    Life is not black and white.

    I see the panel projector market in three main areas

    Basic SVGA (£1500-2000)

    RGBHV(HD 15)
    Component (RCA)
    S-Video
    Composite (RCA)
    Basic de-interlacing
    Contrast 500:1
    Address panel resolution directly, have support for NTSC and PAL progressive scan input

    Basic XGA (£2500-3000)

    RGBHV (HD 15)
    Component (BNC)
    S-Video
    Composite(BNC)
    Basic de-interlacing
    Contrast 700:1
    Address panel resolution directly, have support for NTSC and PAL progressive scan input

    Wide XGA (£4000-5000)

    1280 x 720
    RGBHV (BNC) x 2
    Component (BNC) x 2
    S-Video x2
    Composite (BNC)
    Quality de-interlacing (DVDO / Sage)
    Contrast 900:1+
    Address panel resolution directly, have support for NTSC and PAL progressive scan input

    I feel all need to be able to do the basics out of the box as delivered, however I feel all need to be able to be improved either with an external scaler of a prog scan DVD player.

    I am not worried what technology these things use, CRT/LCD/DLP. It is irrelevant. I know all the pros and cons of LDC / DLP and they are just that pros / cons. It is all about a balanced rounded package. Things like colour accuracy , hopefully will be taken care of in the correct set up. Throw will be down to particular situation, so I am not too worried about that. I would like to see longer bulb lives however and noise levels in the 32-34 dB range. It needs flexible mounting arrangements like floor and ceiling. Others will have different requirements.

    The thing I really want is DVI input. Both my PCs have DVI outputs (inc. HCPC). My DVD player and AV processor are getting DVI capability soon, therefore it makes little sense to buy a panel projector without DVI input.

    To be honest I would be happy with just SVGA and I like the ‘rounded’ package of the Sanyo PLV 30 but it doesn’t have a DVI input. If it did I would buy one tomorrow. I have tried many of the presentation projectors for reps and they just don’t cut the mustard for HC IMHO.

    There is the further class of panel projector that I think could win many friends, one with just RGBHV and DVI input for HCPC owners. Price it at £1200-1500. It doesn’t need any Component, S-Video, composite inputs or any de-interlacing. Address the panel directly with the HCPC and do all the work in computer which we all have already. It would allow a great upgrade for all the new prog scan players with DVI outputs that will hit our shores over the next 2/3 years.

    Now we are starting to get a few HC projectors that achieve the above but non at the prices I am quoting. For the wide XGA we have HT 300, for SVGA we have Sanyo and SiMHT200 (DM) etc, the price seems to be the sticking point as far as I am concerned at the moment, these things aren’t that expensive to produce but we are paying for the substantial development costs at the moment. If they could add further future proofing (DVI / addressing panel resolution directly) then they would less like just a 2 year purchase and more like a longer term proposition.

    I would be please to hear any suggestions for HC projectors with DVI inputs

    Back to the house hunting
    :mad:
     

Share This Page

Loading...
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice