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Just seen @ the cinema: Matrix Recycled (or: Deja vu) - SPOILER ALERT

Discussion in 'TV Show Forum' started by Reiner, May 20, 2003.

  1. Reiner

    Reiner
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    SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

    I highly recommend you do not read this thread if you haven't seen Matrix Reloaded yet. For a review without spoilers see here:

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80599

    The following post should be for discussion with those who have seen Matrix Reloaded already or who do not want to see it. Be sure though as the following gives away a lot.

    You have been warned!

    SPOILER ALERT

    The things which made Matrix Reloaded fail short of my expectations and disappointed somewhat:

    1. There is a wild dance party to techno beats in Zion after Morpheus holds a speech. This scene is all to similar to those in Blade, without the blood though (instead you see sweaty bodies and nipples). Ok, not to bad then but didn't fit into here and together with 2. (they are interweaved) it stretches far too long.

    2. The sex scene between Neo and Trinity (not much to see though) doesn't suit to the movie - IMHO, and appears a bit cheesy at the end, more suitable to a chicks flick instead.

    3. Neo's supernatural powers - well, Superman would be quite embarrased and I just found the flying around ridiculous, especially where he rises above the clouds and dives back, arm stretched out, to earth. Sounds familiar, doesn't it?
    Furthermore in another scene he flies so fast creating a draft, throwing things (cars etc.) around - would surely have killed the humans.
    As well his ability to move things are a bit Magneto-style and I would question his need to fight, i.e. why does he not just beat his opponents by crushing them with things or whatever!?

    4. Was bullet-time in The Matrix something new and impressive, it's nothing to be excited about anymore. Copied and repeated many times makes it just 'boring' when it's overly used.

    5. Talking about repeats we have another dojo fighting scene. For what purpose you may ask? "Just making sure" was the answer.

    6. Once again one of our superheros dies and is reanimated. Even more ridiculous than Superman, sorry, Neo flying around. See also the similarity to X2 (in both cases a bullet is extracted from the fatally wounded body parts).

    7. Some of the CGI, in particular the backgrounds like Zion are poorly executed. Comparable to Star Wars E2 and I must say I would have expected better. Much better.

    8. Matrix Reloaded does not function as a movie on it's own. Surely you should have seen the first part to understand what the heck is going on but similar to BTTF it has an open ending, too.

    To be continued ...
     
  2. z5461313

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    Reiner

    Did you like it then or not?:)

    I thought the dance party was good. I interpreted it as the humans relaxing and enjoying themselves and trying to forget the horrible Matrix just outside their doorstep for once

    Also the music was really nice, and it made a complete change to the film ( like a music interlude )

    I agree I think you have to have seen the first film to understand all the concepts - but I have

    I really liked the film, best film this year for me
     
  3. Reiner

    Reiner
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    It wan an ok movie for me. See my review here for more details: http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80599

    Expectations were high and had not been fulfilled. It's not a bad movie as such, but it's IMHO not better than The Matrix. Perhaps it was too long, some of the scenes (including the dance, the dojo and Monica Belluci) could have been cut and no one would have missed them.

    In comparision I found X2 to be a better movie and a better sequel.
     
  4. Dimmy

    Dimmy
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    I'm gonna watch it tomorrow, let y'all know of my 'opinion'
     
  5. jmack

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    just back from seeing it . not as good as first but still better than 90% of the stuff out there
     
  6. john87

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    I disagree, I just got back, I think it walks all over the Matrix, my previous all time favourite movie.

    Words are not enough to describe how class that movie was.
    Best movie ever.
     
  7. bighal reloaded

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    Just seen it too. Reckon you will need to watch it and watch Revolutions to get the full picture.
    Agree about the dance scene, abit too long for my liking.
     
  8. micks_address

    micks_address
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    seen it last night -

    first impressions - bored silly until Neo meets the Oracle and goes to see the french dude - really liked it from that point onwards and left feeling like it was a good experience.

    Have to agree with the zion scenes - they spent far too much time there - the fight scenes with agent smith were a bit daft - what was the point? some of the effects were a little dodgy like the first flying scene and the oracle seemed a little funny on screen (i think she passed away during filming? so maybe some cgi effects or something used?)

    its definetly going to be one to add to the dvd collection - the truck crash - the building explosions and the flying at the end by neo should all sound excellent.

    All in all looking forward to the next film still a lot of questions to be answered which is great - what the heck is agent smiths significance to the story now? he seems to play a major part in the next film but didn't do a lot in this one apart from fight....

    Cheers,
    Mick
     
  9. Sly

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    I have to agree with reiner on this one,it felt like a directors cut of a shorter better film.
    Also most of the effects were put in there because they could rather than to help tell the (long winded) story!
    Saying that the film is still worth going to see and will be a future dvd purchase.
    I think that reiners 3/5 is a fair score.
     
  10. Ian Cox

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    I totally agree with what has been posted here so far.

    ***Spoilers***











    Overall I came out of the film disappointed as Reloaded did not have the same gripping element as the first film had, for me there was no real big wow moment which the first Matrix had lots of.

    Reloaded was too long and they could of cut a lot out which would of made it a better and more satisfying film. The rave scene in Zion was just pathetic and I can not for the life of me think why they put this in. It is not until Neo meets the Oracle that the film gets going (about 40 minutes in), especially when agent Smith turns up as he has some great one liners. The fight that Neo has against the hundreds of agent Smiths is very good even though the CGI is a bit dodgy in places.

    The French guy (can't remember his name) is very good but the fight scene in the Château goes on too long and you do not feel any sense of danger when Neo fights as you did in the first Matrix. The freeway chase is amazing and there is some excellent bullet time and is probably the best part of the film.

    After this the film just carries on too long and the whole explanation near the end is confusing and boring and the end scene just left me under whelmed.

    I did enjoy the film but they just did not raise the bar enough for me (like the producers kept saying it would) there was nothing new or exciting it was just what we have seen before but better produced. I was hoping for a film that shocked me and excited me but I got neither really. I will reserve final judgement for when Revolutions comes out but on this showing they are going to have to pull of something special.

    6.5/10
     
  11. johna

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    Saw this last night as well.

    I still don't understand why he stands and fights!? I thought he'd "realised" that in the first movie.

    Far too long - far to complicated and overall was up it's self a bit to much for my liking.

    Will still get the DVD though.
     
  12. stewarthollyhead

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    ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The reason Neo stands and fights is because of his arrogance. He has now accepted himself as a modern day superhero and he is coming to terms with the other side of that coin. ie knowing he is special but not reliasing that even he may have limits. So when agent smith turns up he thinks "i've beat him before andIll beat him again". He then becomes overwhelmed by the sheer number of them

    Fighting 100 agents aint exactly the same as stopping six bullets (end of matrix). Think superman 2 and the New York scene fight with the 3 baddies.

    why do people have a problem with this, it makes perfect sense.
     
  13. jhjerpe

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    Agreed with all the Zion points... it would have been better to leave Zion up to peoples imagination. It added little and the CGI was very poor, reminded me of Kevin Costner movies for some reason!

    I thought the rest of the movie was very good, 4/5 is my score with the first one getting 5/5.

    Personally I think they have raised the bar when it comes to special effects and action sequences. Mostly the CGI was very well intergrated with the live action stunts, not seen anything that comes close!
     
  14. Ian Cox

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    OK I have been thinking about the end and how was Neo able to do what he did in the real world.

    ***Spoilers***

    These are major spoilers if you have not seen the film already - so stay away, you have been warned. Even if you have seen the film this may spoil the surprise for Revolutions if I am right. Click and drag to highlight








    [COLOR=F4F4FF]
    The Matrix is on it's 6th incarnation and each time the role of the one (he is a key program) is to help reset the program so it can be restarted and the flaws from the last one taken out. The architect said that the program was accepted by 99% of the people but 1% rejected it, these were the ones that were in Zion - the rebels. Now you may then ask why are these 1% just not killed, it maybe because the humans are not just used for power but also to further the AI of the machines. If this is the case then they will need the rebels to understand humans and our flaws better so the next version of the Matrix will be even more perfect.

    If all this is true then Neo was meant to reset the program and re-populate Zion with some new humans (rebels) after the machines destroyed the current population of Zion. The prophecy would start all over again and is used as another form of control. But Neo decided to save Trinity because he loves her which none of the other Neo's has done before because Trinity did not exist in the previous Matrix. So Neo goes back to the real world but something is different he is able to destroy the machines - why. Because Zion and the real world is just another part of the Matrix to control those rebels and Neo is just part of the program. No one has figured this out before because this part of the Matrix is more tightly controlled than the main program. When Neo realised this and destroyed the machines he went into a coma because his brain could not cope with the revelation. This is also how Agent Smith got into the real world as well. So now all bets are off Neo knows the truth and will try to destroy the Matrix so the humans can truly be freed.[/COLOR]
     
  15. johna

    johna
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    Nah , they aren't there - they aren't stood in front of him, they are just code, as he is, and he proved in the first one when he stoped the six bullets that he realised that.

    There could have been one bullet or one million bullets same theory.

    But then it is just a film.
     
  16. stewarthollyhead

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    dont agee at all

    you can read code and still be swamped by it

    like being a compuer programmer with a hangover monday morning :)
     
  17. johna

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    Hmmm.....I suppose

    But then he hasn't really realised fully then?
     
  18. Peter Shilton

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    Well, here's my tupennyworth

    What a disappointment.

    obviously it was never going to live up to the hype.

    I don't want to sound like a prude but there was no need for the sex. made the first movie better, sexual tension but nothing.

    The story line was too shallow. In the first movie it was FAR better.

    Hope no 3 is better.
     
  19. Britcitchris

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    Very disappointed but it delivered what I expected. More of the same except more glossy and more complex fights. After I while, the fights became boring and the story was a total load of toss.

    It did redeem itself a bit with a few jaw dropping moments (especially on the freeway chase) and the excellent story twist (Neo is a new code for the Matrix) which hopefully means that Revolutions will be far better. Overall though, pretty yawnsome and a test of patience whilst waiting for a few top moments.
     
  20. Sunday Ironfoot

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    Technically it leaves the first Matrix eating dust, especially the bit where the two lorries crash into each other in the freeway chase scene!

    Story wise it had an interesting plot twist and has made me gag for the next instalment (that was probably the idea).

    But Reloaded lacked the WOW factor of the first film, especially where you found out what the Matrix actually was.

    Some scenes in Reloaded did seem out of place also, such as the sex scene, and some of the fight scenes seemed like they were inserted in there simply as an excuse for another cool fight scene. I had no problem seeing what Zion looked like though.

    I suppose Reloaded can be acused of having it's head stuck up it's own arse, as the story is starting to get really twisty and a touch philasophical (spelling?). I'm sure it'll all come together in Revolutions.

    Overall, I'd definetely recommend you see this if you've watched the first one, I was not disappointed at all, it added soo much more to the Matrix universe. 4/5 then!


    As an aside, about the story, someone mentioned the idea of a Matrix inside a Matrix, I'm definetely in agreement in this one!
     
  21. monkeyleader

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    **** SPOILER SPOILER ****






















    Very impressed with the whole movie apart from one bit right at the end - when they are asking who survived Zion, and as they say "only one" the camera pans over Neo and another the surviver - but the music kicks in DU DU DUUUUUUU ... bit cheesy ...

    Loved it though and will probably go back after the weekend to see it again...
     
  22. Desmo

    Desmo
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    Well I went to see the film last night and I can't believe how they managed to turn the original story into a complete load of tripe. It's ruined the whole thing.

    I don't need convincing on the type of film as I love the original Matrix, but I was ready to walk out within about 30 minutes. The so-called new fight scenes are not a patch on the original film. It just got so boring watching the same thing over and over again. The script was terrible and I'm sure I could have written it better. It was so cheesey, some of the one liners were awfull and nobody said more than 4 words in any scentence.

    I urge you not to go and see this film. My head is still hurting this morning.
     
  23. Britcitchris

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    Leaves it eating dust? Apart from the plot twist, it adds nothing to the first and is nothing more than more of the same, only more complex with a worse script and worse acting. This next installments makes everything worse, not better. As is the case with most hollywood, milk the cow, sequels.
     
  24. Reiner

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    Helicopter crashing into the building in The Matrix was too similar for my taste. The highway scene was cool and perhaps the best part of the film, but nothing really new. The bluescreen scenes also were a bit too obvious and nearly spoiled it.

    Matrix Reloaded is not a bad movie as such but just couldn't fulfill my expectations - which were admittedly very high.
     
  25. Sinzer

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    I believe the moral of the story, is that the film is fine if all you expected is some nice CGI and action sequences with some crap (I am using this word a lot today!) storyline bodged onto the top.

    The story is not really new, and I believe I was writing similar storylines in English class in the first year of secondary school :p

    A matrix within a matrix within a matrix within a matrix. It doesn't really matter, it simply is a bit of fun. There are not really any brain twisters in the plot, you want that go watch a David Lynch film. Everything is handed to you on a plate.

    The only interesting part was the french restaurant, where the rogue program essentially debunks Neo's/Morpheous's theory of choice, neither have one because they just follow what they are told. In fact, Morpheous spends the whole film talking about having no choice, merely fate, therefore it makes no difference what he does. Matrix reloaded minus dialogue = latest CGI music video for Linkin Park.

    I enjoyed it, but I think too many people thought it was going to be a intellectual masterpeice.

    PS and Reiner you are a bad man for suggesting they cut the Monica Belluci scene, she is simply gorgeous and was amazing to watch! Far better than staring at Neos or Morpheous's ugly face for 10mins.
     
  26. NicolasB

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    Massive spoiler, I guess I'd better make it invisible. Select to read:

    To those who are wondering exactly what was the point in bringing Agent Smith back into the proceedings, the answer is that (to put it in terms that are meaningful at the beginning of the film, anyway) he has managed to break free of his original nature to the extent that he is able to affect events in the real world, to the extent of replacing the personality resident inside a real human body with a copy of his own - uploading himself via the matrix jack into a human brain.

    This is important for two reasons:

    1) He is able to betray the inhabitants of Zion by taking over a person just before that person exits the Matrix.

    2) It means he has the unambiguous ability to kill Neo while he (Neo) is inside the Matrix. A conventional agent can't do anything other than try to "damage" him, and Neo is now immune to the effects of that because he is so completely convinced that it isn't real. But against a malign influence that actually flows along the wires into his brain, he is vulnerable. And the multiple Smiths between them may be able to immobilise him long enough to get him this way.
     
  27. stealther

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    Ok Totally 100% Agree I came up with most of this theory myself except : .....





    [COLOR=F4F4FF]
    When Neo realised this and destroyed the machines he went into a coma because his brain could not cope with the revelation. This is also how Agent Smith got into the real world as well. So now all bets are off Neo knows the truth and will try to destroy the Matrix so the humans can truly be freed.
    I couldnt work out why he went in a coma this makes sense
    If this is true it will male Revolutions very interesting indeed

    [/COLOR]
     
  28. Britcitchris

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    Whoa. You two have hit something there. If you guys are right, I may have to retract some of my loathing for Revolutions......

    But why o why make Smith the comic relief. It's not normal, I tell you...
     
  29. alanrob

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    I've seen Reloaded twice now (it took two viewings of the first movie to really get into it) and I have to say that as a story it has surpassed eveything I was hoping the sequels would be.

    Guess Reloaded must be a thinking man's movie.

    ***Spoiler***

    I belive that there is no Real World (or we haven't seen it yet) and that Zion is just another Matrix type system that is outside the control of the machines.
    Why no mention (or sighting) of the Zion Mainframe in Reloaded.
    Remember, Agent Smith was looking for access codes to it in the 1st movie. Why if it's in the Real World could the programs in the Matrix gain access (like Agent Smith has in Reloaded, albeit in the body of another person) unless it was another part of the Matrix.



    I think it's unfair to mark half a movie (since that's what Reloaded is) until you have seen the final part.
     
  30. Britcitchris

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    I very much enjoy a thinking man's film. Please do not imply that I am not a thinker.

    The first Matrix was an intense and provocative story, well acted and well written. I am sure I will digest more of the story if I see it again but there were so many lame bits, I am put off from doing so.

    Like you, I am sure the third installment will provide more insight and I have high hopes for it, despite the awfulness of the second installment.
     

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