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Judder on PWD8?

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by peterakastorm, Sep 23, 2005.

  1. peterakastorm

    peterakastorm
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    I'm about 100 hours into my runin period, and I've started noticing a thing... When watching DVD's, I think I get judder on panning shots? But how much judder is judder? I don't remember how it looked on my old television... :rolleyes:

    Is there any way to effectively get around the judder?

    My setup is PWD8 and a Sony NS-955 DVD-player.
     
  2. NWhiteley

    NWhiteley
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    please don't say things like that :eek: im suffering from buyers remorse after paying for my PHD8 today, and i haven't even received it yet ;) things like this just make me feel worse :lesson: :D

    ...only joking ..... i hope your screen provides you with many years of televisual bliss
     
  3. peterakastorm

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    Hehe, I think maybe I'm just too paranoid? But I get a distinct judder... Doesn't change anything if I turn the Cinema Progressive setting off...


    But PQ is exellent ;)
     
  4. NWhiteley

    NWhiteley
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    :oops: that was :offtopic: anyway i think it will improve as the run in period progreses
     
  5. peterakastorm

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    Funny thing is that I don't get the same judder on normal television...
     
  6. peterakastorm

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    Hmm... I think it got better when I turned Cinema Reality on?? Or is it just me?
     
  7. peterakastorm

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    Hmm... think it's just me... there will always be a little judder, right? Maybe not judder... but the people loose focus when they walk out of the screen for example... and things loose focus too on moving screens...
     
  8. Peabo

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    a bit of judder is normal. It happens on projectors too, so you'd even see it in the cinema
     
  9. Mep

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    isn't that more like a bit of motion blur?
     
  10. Gussie

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    It could be the motion blur effect that all plasmas suffer from - the thing is - most people don't notice it - those that do, have to accept it !

    There are many many threads about this - the best description I've found is here ...

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5985503&&#post5985503

    This unfortunate phenomenon is caused by phosphor decay time differences.

    Gussie :)
     
  11. peterakastorm

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    Its hard to describe... haven't noticed the phosphor decay differences...
     
  12. Jazz Monkey Jr

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    Is it different on NTSC and PAL DVD's or the same on both?
     
  13. peterakastorm

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    Well, I actually don't have any NTSC DVD's...
     
  14. kenji-san

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    I think everybody can 'see' it, it's not very hard to see. But it depends on what program you are watching, and what your expectations are of the picture.
    If you mostly watch standard tv viewing stuff, then, when it happens, you don't think about it as it doesn't detract or obscure in any significant way from your viewing experience (F.ex. short fast pannings in sitcoms. When blur occurs, it doesnt detract from viewing experience, as it's only for short times and most of the time the camera is still, focusing on.. Frasier sitting on a couch or something).
    But if you're f.ex. watching alot of sports like car race, and your expectation of the viewing experience is that you'd want to see a smooth picture of the car as they pan quickly across the screen in close-up, then you'll immediatly notice the blur and judder.
    If your viewing programs consists of alot of (relatively) fast moving objects, the blur issue will (in some way) detract your viewing experience overall.
    It has nothing to do with R1 or R2, it's a plasma and lcd display issue.
    As Gussie said, get used to it, or swap the screen for a crt.
     
  15. Peabo

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    it also depends on the screen. It was very bad on my old plasma, but I hardly ever see it on my PWD6, and when I do, it's hardly noticable at all.
     
  16. peterakastorm

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    But please describe judder to me... Maybe I'm just seeing normal things... Like in the cinema, you don't always have focused pictures, right? When they pan over a mountain or a person, the mountain or person isn't in focus, right? And it's kinda shown like a "double" picture... that's the best way I can describe it...
     
  17. peterakastorm

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    Could anyone describe what judder is to them??
     
  18. peterakastorm

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    Please explain judder to me??
     
  19. peterakastorm

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    Is there no one who can explain what the definition of "judder" is? - If there is any... As I'm from Denmark, I might have misunderstood the term "judder"...
     
  20. Mep

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    I've never experienced it but have seen folk talking about in relation to frame rate conversion. I'm sure what you are describing is motion blur which I do notice.
     
  21. kenji-san

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    judder probably is when the picture skips frames when a fast moving object moves across the screen. But it's not like skipping frames like in bad 3:2 pulldown, but more like a blurry look.
    That's about as close as i can come to a description of judder at this hour. :)
     
  22. peterakastorm

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    Well... I have it on some showns on TV, and always on DVD... but it doesn't have to be fast moving objects... But I don't think that's judder... because I watched it on a CRT TV, and it had the same "judder"-like feel that I had, on the same show...
     
  23. ben_gb

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    To me, judder is the following:

    When you have movement across the screen, the object moving (or the background if it's a panning shot) appears to briefly stop, maybe a couple of times a second. So far example, if there was a train going across the screen, it might look a bit like someone keeps pressing the pause button very rapidly, so it moves a bit then stops, then moves a bit more.

    Judder can also be seen when there is one of those scrolling lines of text that are on some news channels (eg BBC, Bloomberg, CNN). Here you see the text moving a bit, stopping then moving some more, so it kind of jerks across the screen, instead of smoothly scrolling without any pause.

    I don't know about the PW8. I've never seen any noticeable judder on other Panasonic panels that I've used (i.e. PW4).
     
  24. peterakastorm

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    Well, wouldn't say that's the thing I see... it's more like the person loose focus on panning...?? Will there always be that?
     
  25. peterakastorm

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    And it's also on slow moving pictures... is that smear instead?
     
  26. -Hitman-

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    Sounds like motion blur to me, losing focus, ghosting and solorisation on panning shots!

    Judder is when the video frames fail to keep up in realtime and you get split second pausing, while the frame rate tries to keep up with the realtime movement, a good example is the ticker tape on Sky news/bloomburg, if you suffer from it will be evident here!
     
  27. peterakastorm

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    Ok, thanks... just thought that the PWD8 should have no motion blur, losing focous, ghosting and solarization??
     
  28. -Hitman-

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    These are symptoms, not necessarily all of them will be evident.

    The source also has an effect on these symptoms.
     

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