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John Lewis told me not to bother

Discussion in 'LCD & LED LCD TVs' started by AndyNo_1, Oct 18, 2005.

  1. AndyNo_1

    AndyNo_1
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    Hey,

    I asked the guy in the shop what LCD he'd suggest at around 23" or 26" (small living room!) as I had previously bought the sony KLV23HR3 and was dissappointed with the picture quality (bit blurry on scrolling text + occasional ghosting).

    It was nice to have an honest answer as he told me not to bother with an LCD, saying that if I wasnt happy with that model, chances are I wouldnt be happy with any of them because 'they're just not good enough yet'.

    I was just wondering whether anyone else felt the same - should I keep hold of my money for a while until LCDs get better and HD becomes the norm?

    I look forward to hearing your opinions
    - Andy
     
  2. bodyfodder

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    i have to say that i am more than happy with my screen (32wl48). beats the hell out of my old tosh crt.

    its just a matter of opinion.
     
  3. iBoris

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    I think it is down to what you feed it. Was in Currys today checking out the HI DEF TV's (Just ordered the Hitachi 32LD7200) and the analogue feed they had going into it made the picture look dire.

    My girlfriend said that she preferred the look of the LG picture that had the HDMI feed with the HI-DEF demo vid. I explained that the feed was the problem not the TV (I hope!!)

    Anyway, I have bought my LCD with an eye on the near future, not now. When Sky HD and my Xbox 360 arrive I am sure that the extra spend will have been worth it.

    I would say it's not down to LCD TV improving, but rather that the media being supplied to the TV improves... which is now closer than you think.
     
  4. TJNewton

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    The guy in JL probably had a load of old CRT's he had to sell to get his bonus!
     
  5. dllord

    dllord
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    I totaly agree!
     
  6. GPF

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    IME he has a point.

    I've been looking for something smaller (space saving in my office) I saw this

    http://ws2.homecinematv.co.uk/showproduct.php?cda=showproduct&pid=JVC-LT20DA6SK

    which I couldn't find on the JVC website so I took me down to our local Hughes in hopes they might have one to look at.

    No such luck. But they had several LCDs a couple of plasmas and some CRTs all lined up and running: the quality of some of the LCDs was disappointing especially back to back with the CRTs, either motion blur or a general grainy look.

    I also looked in the Euronics next door, same verdict, extremely variable quality.

    You really need to see the things properly set up. They are getting better though, some were quite watchable in comparison. I was even quite impressed by a Panasonic plasma.

    What really really bugged me was the lack still of digital tuners.

    If I had the space I'd still go for a CRT, as it is I'm going to have to accept some compromise on quality for the space saving.

    Mind though, with the quality of some of the programs the picture quality pales into insignificance . . .
     
  7. Chanes

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    Odd that depending on which sales assistant you speak to you get conflicting advice. I suspect they are influenced by their own preference, or commission or both. The John Lewis sales assistant that sold us our JVC LT32DS6 seemed convinced that LCD had reached an acceptable level of performance. This not being my specialist subject I am prey to the whimsy and advice of others which means I could be duped. Oh well. :(
     
  8. barrybott

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    regarding Hitachi 32LD7200 my picture on a crt thro sky is first class doyou think the it will produce the same quality on the 32LD?

    Barry
     
  9. Hi/zuum

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    Take no notice of JL staff. In fact take no notice of any shop staff. LCDs are simply 'you are what you eat' machines, i.e if you feed a current LCD a SD signal you'll be dissappointed, but feed it a HD signal through HDMI & you won't. Simple. The HD/XBOX360 is weeks away. Who do you think has their finger on the pulse & eye on the immediate future? A JL sales assistant or M$. :devil: + ask yourself what you want from your TV (from the start) - PC connection, upscaled DVDs & games consoles (all displayed to the highest degree). If it's none of these & it's Eastenders you want in the best PQ then don't bother would probably be good advice. :rolleyes:
     
  10. iBoris

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    Yep, spot on.

    Sales staff talk sh*t generally. My favourite experience was with Richersounds Birmingham (so called friendly advice). Bear in mind I have been a customer of theirs on 3 occassions, 2 DVD players and a Home Cinema Kit (Not expensive stuff, but I had spent around £600 with them.) So I walk in looking for a Plasma/LCD (only one other guy in the shop) and ask about how to fit it to a wall, getting professional installs etc.

    The guy just says use Yellow Pages and carries on tapping stuff into a computer, this was from picking up the instore leaflet that said 'Ask our friendly staff for advice!!'. Probably because I was wearing jeans and a t-shirt, he didn't seem to want to sell anything, so I have totally washed my hands with them, sales staff are idiots.

    Anyway, I tend to look at goof forums (like this one) and decent magazine reviews (HCC etc) to make an opnion. I will let you know about the LCD when it turns up next Saturday!!

    :)
     
  11. UKBOY

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    Quality typo. :clap:

    Made me laugh anyways.

    UKBoy.
     
  12. SeanT

    SeanT
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    A mate of mine always goes to look at new cars wearing jeans and a t-shirt, the sales staff tend to get a bit ****** off when he gives them a business card / flashes the cash and then tells them he's going elsewhere because they judged him on image :hiya: :rotfl:
     
  13. iBoris

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    Damn my Apple Keyboard! :D
     
  14. blakey1

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    I think the sales assistant is right. As far as I'm aware there are very few LCD's which show a decent picture when watching freeview, sky or cable. A CRT picture is much better than a LCD picture and thats what the sales assistant is saying. Ok HD is around the corner but it will cost £500 for the box and anything between £20-£50 for the six channels that you will get. How many people will be taking up HD when it comes out. Also there is some debate as to whether there will be much benefit for people buying anything smaller than a 32 inch screen. Within a year or two there will be better LCD's on the market and also you will be able to buy an LCD based on the quality of the picture as HD TV will be available rather than guessing what it might look like in 6 months time. You will also know the cost of sky subscription and the cost of the set top box.
     
  15. VILLAn66

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    Ahhh.... Richer sounds, Birmingham.... I was in there two weeks ago looking at the LCDs/Plasmas. A couple were in there looking at the same screens as me and were asking one of the assistants for advice. One question the guy asked was why the larger LCD screens were more expensive than the same sized plasma.
    The response... "That Sir is because liquid crystals are much more expensive than gas" :rotfl:

    Brilliant!
     
  16. clash33

    clash33
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    I think you have hit the nail on the head. Loads of people are being talked into a HD screen without any of us knowing how good a job SLY will make of it. I say keep your powder dry until it's up and running and we can see what we are buying :eek:
     
  17. UKBOY

    UKBOY
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    SLY Television, is that a Freudian slip ?. :clap:

    UKBoy.
     
  18. captaindobie

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    mmmmmm, why is it that i constantly hear that feeding an LCD TV a SD signal results in poor performance/picture quality?
    I currently watch SKY+ via RGB scart which, on most channels is very good. (some are even excellent - honest guv')
    DVD, via component, looks mostly stunning.
    I am enjoying these fantastic pictures on a SHARP LC32GA5 (no, not HD ready but i'll wager that it will look super stunning with the XBOX360)
    I will admit that this is from my general viewing distance of around 10-12ft.
    I couldn't be happier, and that's really the truth of the matter. By all means take advice from a sales person but don't let them make the choice for you. Trust your own judgement and, more importantly, your own eyes.
    In addition, it's also a little unfair to tar every sales person with the same brush. There are some good ones out there (although, admittedly you may need to look hard...)
     
  19. iBoris

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    I'm holding my judgement on the SKY issue, but just go to Currys etc and check out the HD feeds to see the difference in quality. I can safely say that when I saw the images fed from a HDMI DVD player (pick up a nice Tosh for £99!) I was blown away. Both the LCD and Plasma feeds looked stunning.

    I guess my advice here is, if you have to buy a TV today, why buy a CRT that will be obsolete in a couple of years? If you have a CRT keep it, and enjoy the picture (I still love the picture on my Toshiba Quadryl! and that is pushing 10 years old - my mum loves it!)

    But if I was looking to upgrade why not pop down to Currys, check out which TV looks best with both DVD, HD and SD feeds (erring on the side of HD) and you will be able to order a model cheaper off the net that will last you through this generation of viewing.
     
  20. clash33

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    That's a fair comment, All i am saying is let's not belive all the hype before we see the goods (remember how good WAP was going to be!) :devil:
     
  21. iBoris

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    Ahhh, good old WAP! What a load of ***** that was.

    I guess, if your gonna be spending fair wedge it's best to be cautious. As for SKY HD costing £500, I guess I'm gonna have to wait until the early adopters bring the price down. To be fair, I'll be happy with Upscaled DVD's at the mo.
     
  22. deeplyblue

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    Note the IF in that second sentence. IF you didn't like the one you just tried, THEN you wouldn't like any of the others any better. That's not a blanket judgement on LCDs it's an extrapolation from your already-stated preferences.

    He might be of those people who point out that CRTs will still give the best PQ - at least over a SD feed. This includes some of the magazines, and most of the people for whom colour quality and speed of screen update is the most important point.

    I need a new TV in a space where a large CRT is highly impractical, and I don't watch sports on TV. I shall probably end up with an LCD, but I have put off the decision twice, hoping that the colour quality of LCDs will improve in a few month's time.

    db
     
  23. AndyNo_1

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    Thanks for all yours views on this one.

    I totally hear what you're saying about not listening to the guy in the shop too much, but sometimes it would be nice to have an educated opinion from the staff, especially when its concerning such expensive equipment.

    In all honesty I'm not desperate to get hold of Sky's HD service when it comes about because as some of you have already stated nobody really has any idea how good its gonna be. I'd rather not put all my eggs in one basket by buying an HD ready tv that in the mean time has suspect PQ.

    My problem in a nutshell it would seem is that I'm after a tv that I can watch cable, play a little ps2 (ps3) and watch the occasional DVD on right now without having to put up with a poor picture in the hope that HD will save me in the future.
     
  24. Digitised

    Digitised
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    hey andy

    I personally work for john lewis, and i do do a lot of help on the audio and TV departments. Im not going to stick up for the guy who told you that but i do agree to an extent with his comment on smaller LCD screens.

    Manufacturers make very high quality panels in sizes over 32 inches, they incorporate very good picture processing and have very fast response times and contrast performance.
    However in screens under 32'' (these days some decent 26'' are very good though) they tend to just be overpriced 'cute' models. They realise they have a large market for people who want to save a few square feet and look posh at the same time, so they churn out very sloppy overpriced models to fill this niche.

    These 'cute' models rarely if ever offer HD compatible sockets and are aimed at Standard Definition viewing, which they happen to perform very badly in.
    Its all very well saying it will be great when HD arrives, but if youve spent £700+ on a 20'' widescreen sony LCD which only has composite and scart inputs, im afraid your not going to get your moneys worth before you replace it.

    A CRT of the same price will not only give a larger screen size and offer better value in terms of supplying a bigger picture, but it will actually go so far to kick the living **** out of the LCD picture quality at the same price.

    Small LCD tvs really have not caught up with their bigger brothers or even PC displays for that matter. I personally feel guilty when somebody who obviously isnt in the know, asks me for a £500 15'' 4:3 LCD.
    I just talk to them for 5 mins and spill the facts giving pros and cons and then letting them make up their mind again knowing the bigger picture so to say.

    As a business we take more selling a new LCD, rather than an old marked down CRT.
    We are not on any commission and our only bonus (paid annually to every partner) is related to the business as a whole, electrical products have a very low markup. We take most of our money in fashion departments, so the incentive is to make sure we get a genuine sale rather than having the customer return a £800 TV becuase they dont like it 2-3 months later. This is what loses us money so we do our best to avoid this.
     
  25. iBoris

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    Well, that's a nice and honest response (I am sure Curry's would not be bothered to surf the AV Forums!!).

    As an aside, how much markup do you make on furniture as my girlfriend has seen your latest catalogue and wants pretty much everything in it!!
     
  26. Raze

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    An lcd is only as good as the signal you feed it. ;) (brilliant with HD!)

    Check out my thread (im about to post) about qhat you can expect from a nice Lcd ;)

    it will be called: Want to see a Sammy in HD action??
     
  27. Digitised

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    well iboris i cannot really disclose exact figures but i can boast that i get 25% off of furniture with my staff discount. I dont honestly get to see those sorts of figures very often since its all bought and priced by our buyers in central. We have no control over these prices and they obviously arent listed on our systems.
    Stock comes in and we sell it.

    If your g/f is interested in a career she will get 12% discount after 3 months service and 25% after 3 years. (electrical is 12% only because of the low markup)
     
  28. AndyNo_1

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    Thanks for your insider opinion, the very best kind of opinion if you can get it. I think you're completely right about the smaller screen size LCDs being produced as 'cute' rather than of the quality of their bigger relatives - It often appears that most of the sets are designed to look nice in your house when they're switched off although it would be nice if they looked nice in my house while they were switched on too.

    I think for the minute its probably best to hang around and wait and see what the HD technology brings then I might put my short arms into my long pockets and invest in an LCD again.

    Thanks for all your views on this one
     
  29. Chanes

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  30. MrHat

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    this seems to be the opposite case with samsungs Latest Tv range.. the larger models (32 - 40") have a notably Worse picture than the smaller 26",when i say worse i mean Loss of clarity etc.
     

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