Jerky rolling credits = judder?

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs Forum' started by CHFels, May 1, 2007.

  1. CHFels

    CHFels
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2007
    Messages:
    495
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Ratings:
    +42
    Yesterday I stopped at the local MediaMarkt (Spanish electronics/appliances chain) to look at the TVs. They had "Flushed Away" (a CG animated movie) playing on all the panels (DVD, don't know what machine was source). When the credits started rolling (white on black) I noticed that as they rolled up the screen, the motion was very jerky - more noticeable on some panels than others, but always there . . . except on the Philips high-end LCDs! :eek: These were a 37" full-HD 9xxx model, and a 42" full-HD 7xxx model, fairly new I believe. On the Philips, the credits rolled up as smooth as butter. Silky smooth. Like a caress, after watching the other panels! And the others included: Pio 4270 :(, Panny 42PX70:( , Toshiba 37WLT67, Sony W and X series:rolleyes: , and various Loewes.

    I was really taken aback by how bad the Philips was making the other panels look on the credits. (It surprised me how much of a feeling of relief I got when turning to the Philips, after watching the jerky dance on the others.) Mind you, when the movie itself was playing, the Philips looked like crap from close-up, compared to the Panny or the Pio - lots of edge artifacts and sparkles. So I am not saying the Philips is "better" in any overall sense. But this experience makes me want to ask you all 4 things:

    1) The jerky motion I saw on most panels - is that the effect they call "judder"?

    2) What technology lets the Philips sets not suffer this problem?

    3) Is the effect there all the time, but just only noticeable with something like rolling credits? If so, may it cause - subconsciously - a less pleasurable experience, the way CRT flicker used to do even when people were not aware of it?

    4) Does any plasma maker have, or have upcoming, something like whatever the Philips have?

    :lease:
    Sorry for the long post, thanks for listening, double thanks if you reply!

    CHFels
     
  2. andrewfee

    andrewfee
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    3,066
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +500
    1: Most likely.
    2: Digital Natural Motion. (part of their pixel plus processing)
    3: It's there all the time if you have it turned on in the menus.
    4: Philips still have a few plasmas listed on their website.

    You do not want this though. While it might make rolling credits look smooth, that's about it. The effect it has on actual films is very unnatural, making film look like it was shot on a DV cam, or is being fast-forwarded, even though it's not. It's also very prone to artefacting.

    If you buy a television that is capable of 1080p24 and a source than can output a 1080p24 signal, it will eliminate most judder. I believe the Pioneers are also capable of deinterlacing 480i (NTSC DVDs) and extracting the film frames, then play them back at a multiple of 24 to eliminate it from DVDs as well. (it will not be there with PAL discs, only NTSC or HD ones)
     
  3. choddo2006

    choddo2006
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2005
    Messages:
    8,528
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +542
    1. Yes
    2. Smearing? ;) Either 3:2 pulldown reversal if it was an R1 DVD or a lack of intrusive digital processing. fwiw, my Panny doesn't judder on credits. If it was an R2 DVD it could also be a lack of 2:2 detection & the TV treating it as video I guess. Bob deinterlacing probably isn't too pretty on vertically scrolling credits
    3. It can vary by content depending how well the TV detects what it's receiving . If it's there all the time, it would also affect pans.
    4. The Pioneers are supposed to do a good job with 3:2 detection & reversal
     
  4. CHFels

    CHFels
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2007
    Messages:
    495
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Ratings:
    +42
    Thanks Choddo. 2) - sorry, the text was beautifully sharp on the Philips, and the jumping-about made it harder to read on the other panels!

    4) - that's why I mentioned that the Pioneer was jerky too - it surprised me. I am sure the disc was a PAL DVD, region 2. Is judder supposed to affect us PAL users more than NTSC?
     
  5. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2001
    Messages:
    9,529
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Norwich
    Ratings:
    +986
    No, it affects NTSC users more, they hve to get 24 frames of film in 60 frames, we just speed up the film slightly and show each frame twice.

    You are looking at the wrong thing, you need to sit down and watch a film on these sets, some of the Lumagen processor users get bad deinterlacing with some Pal video stuff with credits and graphics, but ask them if they would give their scaler up.
     
  6. CHFels

    CHFels
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2007
    Messages:
    495
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Ratings:
    +42
    Thanks Gizlaroc. Don't worry, I am not going to switch to a Philips LCD just because it rolls the credits better with an unknown DVD player! But it was still a very striking effect. I'll have to go back and see if I can confirm what the player was, and how the TVs were connected (pretty sure it was component) and at what output res.

    CHFels
     

Share This Page

Loading...