Jerky NTSC picture on budget players.

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by nevC, May 31, 2003.

  1. nevC

    nevC
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    Anyone know if jerky NTSC playback is the norm for budget multi-region machines? I have a Wharfedale DVD750s and find it stutters noticeably playing Region1 discs. NTSC VHS tapes are fine so it is not a display problem. The problem occurs with both S-VHS and RGB connections.
    I plan to upgrade to a PAL and NTSC progressive scan machine soon. Anyone have experience of multi-format DVD-A/SACD PAL/NTSC progressive scan players?
     
  2. nathan_silly

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    Your DVD player might be converting NTSC to PAL before sending to the video outputs. Set it it Auto and not PAL out.

    NTSC does have a slight judder effect (called 3:2 pulldown) but I've seen a couple of cheap DVD players and they do seem more juddery, regardless NTSC or PAL material.
     
  3. taimur

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    does the jerkiness also always happen when expensive players convert NTSC to PAL for display on a PAL only TV?
     
  4. nathan_silly

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    All the expensive DVD players I've seen don't convert NTSC to PAL, they just output whatever the disc is.

    I'm just saying that when I've seen a Samsung playing a PAL disc it seems juddery (and bad picture quality) compared to a £100 Toshiba, much better picture and no judders.

    Since the £100 Toshiba can't convert NTSC to PAL I can't compare them.

    But if a DVD player does convert NTSC to PAL it will judder.
     
  5. taimur

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    I just bought an Arcam DV88+ and the instruction manual says it can convert NTSC to PAL output if an option is set to force PAL output and an NTSC disc is being played. However, the manual did say that jerkiness might be seen.

    It's only an issue just now for me until I upgrade my TV (but not for a few months!)

    Taimur
     
  6. nathan_silly

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    Set it to Auto then... you don't want the Arcam to convert it.

    Nev, what's your display? If you've only got a standard interlaced TV there's no need for a progressive DVD player.
     
  7. Squirrel God

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    It's definitely not the norm as my Sony player is entry-level and doesn't give jerky playback (it outputs pure NTSC though). Can you be more specific as to what you mean by "jerky playback" and "stutter"? Does the disk physically stop-start or is the image just slightly "juddery"?

    Also, how many Region 1 disks have you tried? I have read some user complaints of compatibility problems with Wharfedales on some disks.
     
  8. taimur

    taimur
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    I just put in my AVIA disk and it looks fine. I think that's an NTSC disc, isn't it?
     
  9. Squirrel God

    Squirrel God
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    It is.
     
  10. TommyVecetti

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    A lot (but not all) of the budget machines will do a crude conversion from NTSC to PAL, which looks very juddery and stuttery because it is dropping frames during the conversion process as it cannot keep up.

    Normal NTSC has a very slight judder from the pulldown, but I've found that NTSC tends to look better on the more expensive machines generally.
     
  11. bonzobanana

    bonzobanana
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    There's two ways of doing it the bad way and the not so bad way. The bad way is you lose every 6th frame (including both fields). This is how my old cyberhome adl528 did it. Panning across on ntsc discs was pretty jerky.

    The other better way is losing every 6th field. So in in other words you get 5 fields (half frames) and lose one half frame. This is much better but not perfect. The sharp dv-740h does this as does my samsung htdm150. I'm sure many sampo dvd players do it too.

    As far as I know these are the only two systems used in current dvd players.

    Basically it all came about as China uses the PAL television standard but they wanted to use ntsc material on vcds/svcds/dvds etc on their televisions which were mainly pal only. Therefore quick and easy conversion from ntsc to pal was required. Thus chinese designed players generally tend to have this facility in fact its crucial to the chinese marketplace. Jap designed players simply don't bother with it as a general rule. Companies just outside of china like samsung in korea also sell into china in a big way and tend to have this feature. Nowadays it gets more confusing as many japanese firms actually don't make dvd players anymore and have them made for their own brand in china. Some they still design themselves and some are just repackaged chinese designs. Samsung are a big supplier making video recorders for sony, televisions for toshiba, home cinema systems for jvc and the list probably goes on and on. Samsung are korean but they have factories in china as well as korea.
     
  12. nevC

    nevC
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    Thanks to everybody for the very helpful feedback. Turns out nathan_silly was correct. The machine was set to PAL which was jerky (motion was unnatural - frames seemed to be missing). On Auto, NTSC, and PAL60 the picture was fine. On PAL60R the motion was fine but the bars above the picture shuddered and on PAL the jerky movement was intrusive.
    I still intend to upgrade to a progressive scan player having upgraded speakers and amp JM LABS CHORUS 715's and PioneerVSX2011. Would prefer to buy a projector first to utilise DVD, XBOX and Gamecube (US) progressive options.
    Have tested LOTR SE, The Matrix and Avengers TV Series boxset b/w-colour and all are fine.
    P.S. Anyone seen the Cambridge AudioDVD56 PAL/NTSC progressive playback?
     

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