japanese model dvd/hdd for uk tv recording/playback?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by josaka, Nov 7, 2004.

  1. josaka

    josaka
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    hi

    I'm off to japan over crimbles...!
    thinking of picking up a hdd/dvdr..(pioneer 720h or panasonic eh95)
    (prob the pioneer as it has hdmi)

    now.... I know I can make them multi region..and I have many power transformers! my tv is multi too... so

    can you get around the ntsc/pal tv tuner? and ntsc/pal prog scan?

    any other problems?

    any suggestions would be welcome...


    thanking you all in advance!

    j sk
     
  2. MuffKing

    MuffKing
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    There is nothing that you can do about the RF tuner, but but both PAl & NTSC models can outpt component video in PAL & NTSC depending on what's on the disk. Don't forget to check the language of the OSD, handset, manual etc.
     
  3. eddyad

    eddyad
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    There won't be any scart sockets which could make connecting to a satellite/cable/freeview tuner a bit of a pain. You might be stuck with Composite video as many external boxes would be Composite or RGB. A few freeview boxes have s-video, I don't know about satellite/cable. So you might be able to go for s-video throughout, except for the TV if it has Component input.
    You'd also have to decide what 625/525 line conversions you would make. Would the Japanese kit make 625 recordings?
    I think it's a risky idea, but if you can downlod a US manual that would help as the USA and Japan use 525/NTSC.
    Finally don't forget the VAT and duty. You can hardly stick the machine in a corner of your checked baggage and hope it wont be noticed.
     
  4. MuffKing

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    Taking all that into consideration would make it more worthwhile buying one in the UK.
     
  5. eddyad

    eddyad
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    Out of idle curiosity (quiet Sunday afternoon) I had a look around...
    The US Pioneer 520 details/manual are available here (no 720) http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4139_98124086,00.html
    but you have to register with a US adddress for the manual.
    The remote has a couple of differences from UK versions.

    My honest advice is to forget the idea when you can pick from a range of HDD/DVD machines in the UK at reasonable prices.
     
  6. josaka

    josaka
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    so ..there is no way to record uk tv?

    the reason to buy is... pioneer 720h is 62000¥ = 330£ for a 250 gig dvd/hdd
    with hdmi and prog scan component out!
    thats not bad!...but better if i can record tv in the uk!!

    ta for the help
     
  7. MuffKing

    MuffKing
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    Well it goes back to what Eddy was saying about the lack of SCART's in Japan as it's a European connection. Therefore the only was to record TV would be via a tuner (Freeview, Sky etc) connected via an AV input like Composite, S-Video etc.
     
  8. josaka

    josaka
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    so basically the tuner is useless...
    but will i be able to record 625 in and out ?
    and record pal programmes (via sky or freeview)to dvd?

    also is a d1/d2 connector useable for prog scan component?
    if so can it be used with some kind of converter lead to rgb component?
    I have an epson tw-200 (I got for £800 in japan) which I use with my denon prog scan component outs (makes a massive difference!)...

    oh I made a slight mistake about the price of the new 720 here are the correct prices all have 250 gig drives exept the pioneer 710 and the pana e85 which are 160 gigs (aprox prices)

    toshiba rd-xs43 ¥62000 = £330
    toshiba rd-xs46(new today!?) no price yet
    pioneer 710H-S ¥57800
    pioneer 720H-S ¥105000 = £560
    mitsubishi he-700 ¥58000
    panasonic e95h ¥57000 = £300
    panasonic e85h ¥53000


    ta again!
     
  9. eddyad

    eddyad
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    Recording 625 is debatable. It depends how much has beed added to the original design for Europe. In the same way that Scarts are added, so is RGB I/O (not same as component I understand). So 625 may be Europe only. I'm not sure if NICAM stereo comes into the equation anywhere - it may only apply to analogue broadcasts which you wouldn't be able to record anyway 'cos of the tuner. I don't know how you'd plan to make the machine multi-region - it's not a handset process. I think you have to buy / hire a DVD with software on it.

    Also, if you did have any problems, I suspect you'd be out in the cold even from the makers. You could call Pioneer and explain that you own a Japanese machine in Japan (during a temporary work assignment) and will it work here. Also, have you considered the import VAT and duty on the price?

    http://www.electrosaver.co.uk/product.asp?id=DVR720HS is £550, so there should be plenty around that price in the UK by the time you get back.
     
  10. josaka

    josaka
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    yep thats good advice...

    but until I feel that I am getting a reasonable deal I
    wont buy any stuff in the uk..
    dvd players and receivers are the same price as japan/us but dvd/hdd is a total rip off still...

    the tosh 720h-s is £550 in japan but its a brand new product with a 250 gig drive (uk version 160)
    I checked electrosaver for the pana e95h (uk 160 gig) cost £600
    the japanese model pana e95h (250 gig) http://panasonic.jp/dvd/products/e95h-e85h/spec/01.html is ¥57000 = £300

    yes I understand that a product needs to be altered for europe and there is vat and tax... but 2 times the price? the word rip off does spring to mind...
    in the uk they can match dvd players and blank dvd media av receivers and other things to similar prices with their japanese/us counterparts.....
    but until they do the same with dvd/hdd I will be looking beyond these shores for a reasonable price....
     
  11. bladebeeter

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    Josaka, I think you are biting off your nose to spite your face, basicly you will be buying a unit with the wrong voltage wrong tuner wrong conecters wrong region code no uk waranty and little resale value for about a 30% discount on uk prices (after import tax). is that a good deal!
     
  12. josaka

    josaka
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    biting my nose to spite my face..? interesting..

    but anyway....

    I go to japan 2 times a year...

    most of my equipment I buy is from there..

    I have many power adapters...

    everything is multi region..

    pretty much every digital piece of equipment loses value every 6 months
    (if they last that long!)

    even with customs vat a panasonic e95h(250gig) would cost me £350 max
    uk price (once again) is 600 for a 160 gig model...

    all the connects i use dont include scart anyway(never been a fan)...

    the only drawback i can see is the tuner.. .

    does this threaten you somehow? your post seemed a bit defensive to say the least..everyone who posts on these pages seems to be looking for deals..

    england has a history of being way overpriced we just seem to lie back and take it..the internet is our friend .... dont be scared

    hope I didnt upset anyone!

    j
     
  13. inabsentia

    inabsentia
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    You may find that the Japanese model has a multi system TV tuner-many do these days-so you may be able to record PAL I through the tuner.

    What you'd need to check is that the unit itself is capable of recording PAL. I kind of fell foul of this myself when buying my latest recorder here, as I often want to record discs in NTSC for friends in Canada, plus I also record from a couple of NTSC channels on my motorised satellite, but the recorder I selected simply will not record in the format. Don't just check the spec for playback-mine plays back NTSC ok-make sure it will record in the format you want as well as well.

    If it does have PAL recording capability, then the tuner becomes less of an issue if it's not PAL I compatible, as you will be able to hook up your Sky/Freeview through the other inputs-even if it doesn't have Scart sockets (Highly unlikely unless they are offering the European model there) it will have at least composite inputs which , while many people scorn then, seem to be good enough for the world outside our shores!!
     
  14. josaka

    josaka
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    hi there!

    thanks for that... good tip about checking the record format too!
    what would I look for in the specifications regarding a uk compatible tuner ?
    uhf/vhf?...

    ta
     
  15. eddyad

    eddyad
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    On the tuner you would need UHF with Nicam stereo, the appropriate sound carrier (UK UHF is different from German) and PAL colour. We also have analog VideoPlus.
    Then there is the question of alphanumeric character input for titling.

    Frankly, I reckon by the time you got a Japanese box working acceptably (if at all) the UK prices would be down and you'd be off to Japan for your next trip.
    Has it occurred to you that multi-region setting facilities in the UK may not work on a Japanese machine?

    The main reason for the European stuff being more expensive than the Japanese is probably the need to add all the uropean requirements to the Japanes base and take off the Japanese ones.
    As the USA, Canada and Japan use the same system that is a large market. It's really not feasible to produce a world machine because Scarts would baffle the USA, as would RGB. The box would have little blanking plates here and there and the menu systems would be shot through with 'UK only', 'US only', PAL,Secam, NTSC options etc.
    Some people would claim the European systems are more 'sophisticated' - meaning 'highly developed and complex' (Oxford dictionary) - how true - blame the great common ideals of Europe for Scart, Secam, 3 versions (at least) of PAL, etc.
     
  16. josaka

    josaka
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    hi

    the jap machines (that I checked) all seem to have uhf (not sure about nicam) and alpha numeric fonts
    and I have found that you can programme them to be "multi region"

    I find scart very heath robinson and usually the first thing to break...

    also after adding all of the mentioned "upgrades!" it doesnt justify the
    extortionate prices we get here.... the dvd players are the same price here as japan and us! and multi region!!...

    they make "international" models in Japan I dont reckon that they build 2 seperate "guts" for the machine(no scart) but they are fully pal/ntsc so reckon its a software mod?
    but they charge more for the internationals because the japanese are totally paranoid about bootlegging and being sued (there are no multi region machines sold in japan even vhs!) to make japanese stuff multi its done on bbs's like this one...

    also I like the way you say "some people would claim" then finish the sentence with "how true"....you might as well say it yourself

    I dont want to get into a "this is better than that" debate it doesnt help anyone... I just want to find out if its "possible" or not ...not if its "sensible"
    or "moral" or "wise"...."better?" leave the crusading at the door...

    thank's for the post
     
  17. eddyad

    eddyad
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    The Pioneer 420 is made in the UK, so we have no idea where the re-engineering is done.
    As it seems no-one here has tried using a Japanese machine we clearly can't say if it's 'possible' or not. We've tried to point out the risk areas, so it's now up to you to do the risk assessment and decide.
    As you still seem keen to go this route then maybe you should do so and report back on your experiences in early February, say.

    But I wouldn't take the 'risks' for about £150 and possibly be landed with a dead machine, unless you know a Japanese person who might want to buy it from you and ship it back :)

    Look forwad to hearing about it next year :D
    Happy Christmas :clap:
     
  18. josaka

    josaka
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    hi there

    thanks for the tips again..
    I've been looking more into it...(with the help of my japanese gf)
    there are some interesting things out there
    there is a "sumax!?" machine with removeable hard drive!!?
    so the bigger the drives get you just swap em over!.... good idea
    but the "big boys" may stamp on it...
    the drawback with this machine is you cant record from the drive to the dvd!!
    er .. kind of major! also its untested quality wise ...but still I like the basic idea.... and it's ntsc/pal recordable ntsc/pal component prog scan with usb hook-up to a pc for editing and recording with english menus ! for £265 (80gig standard drive)

    also pioneer do make fully region free models for japan they have 420- 520- 720 they are the same spec as the uk ones (the smaller hdd model's)
    and I saw a panasonic export model when I was last there ..they cost a bit more than the "local" models and are a bit behind in the spec area ..
    but i'll have a look see..

    having said all that I may just wait till you can get hdmi models for a reasonable price...! time will tell....

    thanks all for your input!!

    j sk
     
  19. howardmg

    howardmg
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    Have you thought about the Sony HX90/100 models? These aren't available in the UK unfortunately but have just been released in Japan. 250GB, HDMI, EPG and ability to edit HDD recordings etc.
     
  20. josaka

    josaka
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    ahh sony...

    yup the stats look good...

    I used to really like sony stuff all the right features ..a bit overpriced
    but still I bought!

    but

    everything that I have that is sony breaks!...

    video --kronk-- digital mini dv --boing-- d3 dat machine --thwang--
    707 digital still cam--gronggg--mates ps2 --whupppl--md player--kerunggg--
    smaal eggshaped headphones--btwango--

    I thought it just might be my personal relationship with sony items....
    but when i went to japan to buy a projector(not the only reason!)..
    I mentioned sony and ..uniformedly got a look at the floor and small indcernable head shaking..(japanese for .."thats a rip off mate" or bad build
    quality pal) apparently they have a poor rep in japan for repairs and being a bit overpriced and its all manufactured by other people... so they promptly talked me into buy an epson projector (tw 200-£800) which (at the moment)
    I am most happy with.. having said all that I will def check the sony dvd/hdd stuff cause I do want hdmi!! ( I hear those sukking noises again--)

    ta
    j sk
     

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