James Bond : General Discussion Thread.

Garrett

Moderator
Though as things always descend in to chatting about old Bond films in the latest Bond film to have a thread to discus these without spoiling the recent film thread.
Anyway to kick of with I been reading and with only a few pages to go a thoroughly enjoyable book Bond on Bond by Roger Moore.
Not only covering his tenure as Bond but covering from Sean up to all but Craig's Skyfall. Hes allso done a lot of research as well.
Having sections on all different things like the Villain, Girls, Cars, Inventions, Locations, Wardrobe ((including the tailors (who I've noted down for if and when I win the lottery(ah well at least I have Omega and Seiko watches))). And off course the different Bonds + other stuff.

Some titbits(as in information) from the book.
Richard Kiel was asked to do the scene in Egypt where he leads Bond and Anya, and was asked to go on top of the ruins and it turns out Richard was afraid of heights so much so he even said he did not like being so tall.
Just before Live and Let Die, Bernard's Lee wife Gladys tragically died in a house fire and they thought Bernard would not make the filming so they asked Kenneth More if he would take over a to which he said on the condition his fee went to Bernard.Although Bernard did make it to the filming of the film.
On on location he was in a boat and told what every he did if he fell in the water not to drink any water, he did fall in mouth fully shut but unfortunately opened his eyes and saw what the local undertakers did with the dead body's.
Bond on Bond.jpg
 

Jim Di Griz

Distinguished Member
Yeah its definitely a good read for any Bond fan. Think I picked up mine in the Works a while ago for 8 quid.
 

Garrett

Moderator
Yeah its definitely a good read for any Bond fan. Think I picked up mine in the Works a while ago for 8 quid.
Cheaper than mine if it was £8 from the Works mine was still has the price sticker on £9.99.
If only I known Roger was on QVC selling signed copy's when it came out.

I never knew but according to Roger he does all his own stunts but uses a double for the sex scenes:rolleyes: said, would you go to bed with Grace Jones:laugh:.
 

Garrett

Moderator
Anyway probably preaching to the converted that are fans of Tims Bond and already have both the DVD and Blu Ray of the film but The Living Daylights is on this aft 3.25 ITV.
 

Garrett

Moderator
Yes! If only.

:smashin:
Bri
I know you would Bri but Rogers not in to masochism. :D

BTW nice to see ITV cropping the picture to fit the screen and cutting it I'm sure the cut the bit with the face singing scene not unless I was distracted at the time.
 

Garrett

Moderator
Dont forget Licence to Kill 3.40 this aft although I bet its cut when stuff gets under pressure.
 

Garrett

Moderator
Here Charles Gray being evil making Bonds martini wrong no wonder he became Blofelt in Diamonds are Forever.:laugh:

And here more how it should be although the above could have been a day when Bond did not give a damn see very last clip.:rolleyes:

 

Garrett

Moderator
Whilst looking to find whilst Timothy kept his left hand in his pocket the all time though a James Bond BAFTA Tribut (repeat)(also never found out but) I found this titbit.

The British actor insisted on performing the majority of his stunts on his second and final effort as James Bond in 1989’s Licence To Kill, but he lived to regret his daredevil ways after the tip of one of his fingers was cut off during a scene with Del Toro.

Dalton tells Empire magazine, “Benicio Del Toro cut off my finger. It wasn’t really his fault, but we were doing the scene where I’m hanging over a meat-grinder and he’s cutting away at the wires holding me, and something went wrong. Come to think of it, we probably shouldn’t have had a sharp knife.”

The star suffered another stunt mishap on the action movie – but this time the only injury was his pride: “For the finale, I had to jump from one moving tanker to another. I leap across, climb the ladder while all these bullets are going off – bam! bam! bam! – and the klaxon that means ‘cut’ goes off. I’m thrilled. I know I’ve done a good job. But when I look around, everyone’s p**sing themselves. I look down and I’m in my underpants. My trousers are hanging down off my ankles
.”


I also found they was well on there way to making the third Timothy Bond

from The International James Bond Fan Club
Link to below The 007 Film That Never Was: Dalton’s Third Bond- The James Bond International Fan Club
With a new book now on the market about Timothy Dalton’s first James Bond movie, it seems a good moment for the JBIFC to look back at the screen treatment for the film that was never made: a third Dalton 007 adventure.

Charles Helfenstein, the author of the superb book The Making of On Her Majesty’s Secret Service (2009), recently published a second book entitled The Making of The Living Daylights, which went on sale in October. As with his first book, it is another very high quality exploration of how a James Bond movie is planned, made and marketed, with some fascinating insights, rare anecdotes, excellent glimpses of storyboards, and containing all the detail that made his first volume worth its weight in gold.

At one point in his new book, Helfenstein touches upon the film that came close to being made but never was: a third Timothy Dalton 007 adventure. The JBIFC has trawled its archives once again to bring you some details about the ‘Bond 17′ outline that was actually put together during the planning stages for the proposed movie.

Dalton’s Third 007 Adventure.

Yes, it nearly did happen. As we know, Timothy Dalton made two Bond movies and was all set for a third, but then complex legal wrangles halted pre-production on Bond 17. After waiting patiently for five years for MGM/UA to sort out the various legal battles, in the spring of 1994 Dalton announced he was leaving the role of 007.

“Bond removes his parachute harness and turns to find the decidedly unpleasant barrel of a pistol thrust against his temple. Mi Wai tells him to keep his hands in sight as she speaks rapidly into a small hand held radio. In a few moments Bond hears the distinctive beat of a helicopter… Mi Wai prods Bond forward… he sees the insignia of the Chinese Red Army on the side of the helicopter”.

The above extract, at first glance, looks like something out of Colonel Sun but comes from the screen treatment that nearly became the basis for the third Tim Dalton Bond movie in 1990/91 – had it gone ahead. In fact, not many fans realize how advanced the plans were for Bond 17 in 1989-90. Moreover, all the evidence suggests that Dalton’s third Bond movie would have placed Fleming’s ‘blunt instrument’ (as grittily played by Dalton) in a much more ambitious and visionary story which had an element of sci-fi at its heart.

An outline treatment by Michael G. Wilson and Alfonse Ruggiero was completed in May, 1990, and, although it was not a full script, it contained a detailed outline story, with descriptions of locations, key characters and major plot concepts. As envisaged in 1990, Dalton’s third would-be Bond movie would have entailed the Bond series continuing to move in the notably realistic direction set out in Licence to Kill, but also brimming with ambitious hi-tech concepts.

Wilson and Ruggiero penned an outline which used robotic designs, microchips and advanced electronic apparatus to provide the film with a markedly scientific backdrop. At the beginning of the treatment there was an intriguing preface saying that the ‘robotic devices’ referred to in the outline were ‘complex and exotic machines designed for specific tasks’ and they would be designed ‘especially for the film for maximum and dramatic and visual impact’.

The opening sequence was set in a chemical weapons laboratory in Scotland, and involved technicians performing tests with robotic devices. Suddenly, one of the robotic machines would run amok and the building would explode. After a ‘bitter debate’ in the House of Commons, the Prime Minister would be seen being questioned by MPs about the explosion, and he would assure the House that the ‘full resources’ of the government were being used to investigate the incident.

Enter 007, who, in the treatment, is summoned to MI6’s HQ and to M’s office for the traditional briefing about his mission. There followed a storyline which took Bond to Hong Kong, Japan and mainland China, with the main villain being Sir Henry Lee Ching, described in the treatment as ‘a brilliant and handsome thirty year old British-Chinese entrepreneur’ who, in the traditional Bond sense, is a dab hand at science and electronic circuits, and is also nicely demented. Sir Henry has a habit of arranging ‘accidents’ at nuclear plants, and demonstrates this by having a robotic device run amok at a Chinese atomic plant in Nanking.

The main point to Wilson and Ruggiero’s treatment for Bond 17 was that Sir Henry wanted Britain to withdraw from Hong Kong (remember, this was 1990, some years before the UK actually did hand over the colony). With his expertise in electronics, Sir Henry threatened to unleash a computer virus that would paralyse every military and commercial unit in the world.

The climax of the treatment involved James Bond being led to Sir Henry’s base of operations through the sewer system under Hong Kong, with 007 gaining access to the building via a waste-pipe. There followed a classic confrontation between Bond and Sir Henry, with the latter eventually killed when 007 turns a welding torch in his face!

Whether this treatment for Dalton’s third Bond movie sowed some of the seeds for later ideas for the Pierce Brosnan films is difficult to say, but the 1990/91 Bond 17 treatment gives us an intriguing glimpse of the film that might have been.
 

Fillumgeek

Well-known Member
A welding torch to the face! Excellent Mr Bond.

I always like Tim Dalton, he had a touch of class about him even if (truth be told) he didn't seem like he could outfight your average middle-weight boxer, let alone trained killers.
 

Garrett

Moderator
A welding torch to the face! Excellent Mr Bond.

I always like Tim Dalton, he had a touch of class about him even if (truth be told) he didn't seem like he could outfight your average middle-weight boxer, let alone trained killers.
Tim's Bond was quite the gent, very loyal, but someone you definitely would not want to get on the wrong side of. Looks like the guy who would have got the welding torch in the face somewhat ticked him off.:D
 

Casimir Harlow

Blu-ray Reviewer
Heh, funny because I always thought a real-life British agent, at least back in the day (even before my time) would have been just like Caine's Harry Palmer. And maybe in his older years like Smiley (Guiness or Oldman).

Dalton was definitely ahead of his time, but I wasn't always comfortable with some of the lines they had him spout; they didn't always suit him and gave him a slightly smug edge which totally went against the kind of agent I think he wanted Bond to be (as with some of Brosnan's lines, they would have much better suited Moore - don't get me wrong, I loved Moore, but even he could only barely pull off some of the more ridiculous lines). I can only imagine what Dalton would have done with Craig dialogue.

I think Licence to Kill was the closest we'll have to a true Dalton Bond, but he still had to afford himself a little too much cheese in Daylights (some of his lines opposite Maryam - who, admittedly, was a terrible, weak, female counterpart - were just too silly; compare the conversation he has in the car with the other agent after refusing to outright kill her, with the conversation in the car when they're escaping the police). IMO.
 

lucasisking

Distinguished Member
His romantic interactions never really gelled did they, but as you say we never really get to see him opposite a really good Bond girl (like say, Vesper or Natalya).

In the opening Daylights scene where Dalton lands on the woman's yacht (while I liked the 'better make that two' line); I always imagine that they had a quick drink, chatted about the weather for five minutes, then he went on his way again. Craig on the other hand seems more of a sexual predator. He'd have banged her for sure :).
 

Garrett

Moderator
I agree the cheesy lines did not come across the best with Tim version they were even re using some lines, e.g. the bird on the boat at the start of Living Daylights was used in FRWL. I think the best line in that film went to the guard at the barrier at the pre title sequence which for me the best funny line in any of the Bond films. The bit in the car with Kara I did not think that great especially the the bit on the ice, straight out of Harold Lloyd and Loony Tunes. But far outweighed for the better by his relationship with Saunders and the aftermath, which showed a lot of the character of this Bond.


I cant imagine any other of the Bond actors pulling the lines off Tim did in the scene 3.10 min in on this clip.
 

Garrett

Moderator
His romantic interactions never really gelled did they, but as you say we never really get to see him opposite a really good Bond girl (like say, Vesper or Natalya).

In the opening Daylights scene where Dalton lands on the woman's yacht (while I liked the 'better make that two' line); I always imagine that they had a quick drink, chatted about the weather for five minutes, then he went on his way again. Craig on the other hand seems more of a sexual predator. He'd have banged her for sure :).
Some may disagree but I never felt comfortable with with the shower scene in Skyfall.
 

Fillumgeek

Well-known Member
Some may disagree but I never felt comfortable with with the shower scene in Skyfall.
I simply don't believe the average man would get away with it. The likely results would be:

  1. A scorched member.
  2. A crushed member.
  3. An arrest, followed by an investigation.
  4. A bruised (or worse) sack.
  5. A restraining order, following a combination of 1,2, or 4.
  6. A broken nose, followed by arrest and imprisonment.
  7. An appearance on the Matthew Wright TV show.
 

Garrett

Moderator
But far outweighed for the better by his relationship with Saunders and the aftermath, which showed a lot of the character of this Bond.
Not a day to be a blue baloon.
WARNING SPOILER Clip
 

lucasisking

Distinguished Member
Not a day to be a blue baloon.
WARNING SPOILER Clip
Great moment. Very poignant as Saunders had been an antagonist for Bond, yet they seemed to overcome that and share a moment of real fondness
just before he is killed
.

Some may disagree but I never felt comfortable with with the shower scene in Skyfall.
I never understood the issue with it. Did I miss something? Genuine question- was she supposed to be underage or something?
 

Fillumgeek

Well-known Member
Umm. He has a vaguely flirtatious conversation with her in the previous scene. Then just shows up on her boat, and gets into her shower naked.

Unless your live on a planet ruled by 1970s Robin Asquith from the Confessions of a Window Cleaner series, how does THAT work?

:)
 

lucasisking

Distinguished Member
Umm. He has a vaguely flirtatious conversation with her in the previous scene. Then just shows up on her boat, and gets into her shower naked.

Unless your live on a planet ruled by 1970s Robin Asquith from the Confessions of a Window Cleaner series, how does THAT work?

:)
She all but announced over the tannoy that she was desperately attracted to him; and he correctly read the signals. She was waiting for him, and even if she wasn't; had ample opportunity to act shocked/ tell him to stop.

The only shocking thing about the scene is the unconscionable waste of water. Surely she showered before getting dolled up for her evening of Bond-lovin'? To take a second shower a few minutes after he was supposed to arrive is simply wasteful :lesson:.
 

Fillumgeek

Well-known Member
:) There was a lot of feminist chatter about that scene and the whisky "William Tell" scene afterwards, can't be arsed to go there but Giles Coren was quite funny on this:

Recipe Rifle: Bond, villain

It's only on his wife's blog because the Times didn't want to print it at the time (too many Bond articles - I think we're about to enter that phase).
 

lucasisking

Distinguished Member
From the article:

"She gives no sign of being sexually interested in Bond, merely of being incredibly scared and unhappy."

Really? Apart from the outrageous flirting. And why does she look as if her puppy just died when he (at first) doesn't turn up on her boat?
 

Garrett

Moderator
:) There was a lot of feminist chatter about that scene and the whisky "William Tell" scene afterwards, can't be arsed to go there but Giles Coren was quite funny on this:

Recipe Rifle: Bond, villain

It's only on his wife's blog because the Times didn't want to print it at the time (too many Bond articles - I think we're about to enter that phase).
More or less goes along with my thinking, shes damaged goods but goes back to Sean's Bond that a bit of ramtickyfercal by him cures any mental condition. She did not tell him to stop because that was part of her condition having to be sexually submissive as child. And then
the woman he only made love to had his way with a few hours earlier, doesn't give a expletive about her being killed, but rather makes a sick joke.
If that had been Tim's Bond stuff orders hed have ripped Silva's throat out used him as a shield and killed all the others.

Ive not watched since it came out but her life had been in one way and an other in servitude and Bond was going to be her freedom, so if looking like her puppy had died it could be understood.
 

lucasisking

Distinguished Member
She did not tell him to stop because that was part of her condition having to be sexually submissive as child. And then
the woman he only made love to had his way with a few hours earlier, doesn't give a expletive about her being killed, but rather makes a sick joke.
Ive not watched since it came out but her life had been in one way and an other in servitude and Bond was going to be her freedom, so if looking like her puppy had died it could be understood.
...Which meant she was going to be using him every bit as much as he was using her.

Thing is, Bond's coldness when
she is shot
is exactly consistent with his emotionally detached persona in Casino Royale. His treatment of Severine is more or less exactly the same as his treatment of Solange. She's a means of getting closer to his target, and he's unfazed when
she dies
. And for her, he's a sexy distraction from an unhappy life (in both cases).

Perhaps Bond should have been more 'sensitive' to Severine, knowing her past, but he's not a counsellor, he's a cold professional.
 

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