IWC's Cinema Room

IWC Dopplel

Well-known Member
They need some wiring and connectors, but that's on its way :), 1.5kw and 3KW of sub amplification very soon
Cinema Sub amps.jpg

Cinema Sub amps2.jpg
 

IWC Dopplel

Well-known Member

IWC Dopplel

Well-known Member
Yet again REW has crashed and I didn't saved the RT60 so all the data has gone, apart from my screen shots, Grrr.... I find on my Mac Pro it crashes very frequently, if I allow the laptop to go into sleep mode I have to force quit REW 90% of the time to allow me to do another recording and I try to save after every measurement to stop this happening....
 

Conrad.

Well-known Member
Are you running the latest beta version? If not you should. It’s very stable for me on a MacBook Pro.

if you re-measure can you take a few measurements with no changes inbetween, so just measure and then immediately measure again. I’m curious to see whether the differences your seeing are natural measurement deviations. Not every measurement will be identical.
 

IWC Dopplel

Well-known Member
I think I’m one version old, I’ll update fingers crossed
 

IWC Dopplel

Well-known Member
I have updated and managed to recover the measurements here are the waterfalls 2=2 panels OOR means panels not used are out of room, bottom one is 4 panels OOR, this is the centre channel

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IWC Dopplel

Well-known Member
A little science lab but quite like the look :)

1.5KW of sub amps now up and running, they are heavy, very pleased with my home made wooden boxes, they fit in as well as I'd hoped. You only realise they are there if you look been the sofa

On initial measurement I have a very similar response with better low end performance below 26 Hz, a little spikier around 34, but seems to have solved the 20Hz dip, the original amps have a 19 Hz filter. I'll be dialling them in today and see how I get on

Cinema room Amps 2.jpg
 
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IWC Dopplel

Well-known Member
Sub amps - After breakfast and a few more espresso's I will see how it's sounding, I have had a film on repeat playing just the subs just to get a few hours of burn in on the amps. I can easily go back to A-B the original internal sub amps to the new larger external amps, I have watched two films usoim them and so far so good, they both sounded great but I had no benchmark. They are quieter and even on high volumes you need to bury your head in the driver to discern any noise at all, zero hum, buzz or hiss. The original amps had a very faint electronic buzz close up.

Yesterday I played the start of Oblivion one of my reference discs (I have played this many, many times to dial in the voicing, adjust room treatment and so on, so now it very, very well). It sounded superb, my initial impression was a slight increase in tension, grip and the sense of power in the lower registers. When I A-B'd just one sub before committing to the change I heard the same. I guess the increased control and perhaps damping factor on the cones might help. I also prefer just turning buttons on in one place or region, not hitting 9 naim amp buttons, and walking around the room for the other 3 power amps ;)

I'm also going to try some different speaker cable as I bought a reel of Monoprice 12AG cable and end it just about the worst cable for twist and coiling I've come across. Ive been using it for internal wiring with cable tied. So I ordered some other cable 12 AG form amazon and thats in place for the external speaker leads but for the sake of 20 minutes I'll A-B just to see if two very similar cables sound the same. I will also ask my partner to see if she hears any difference if I think there is. I am hoping there isn't, Why ? Because that will open up a can of worms and I will Start wondering what another cable might sound like :thumbsdow.

JUST FOR THE RECORD I AM NOT AN ADVOCATE OF EXPENSIVE CABLES, but do know the can and do make a difference in a number of cases, alas experimentation is the only way to find the answers. These cable cost £20 for 50 foot by the way (Please don't 'call me out' on this its is my opinion and I have been experimenting with HiFI and AV for nearly 40 years)
 
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Triggaaar

Distinguished Member
I'm also going to try some different speaker cable as I bought a reel of Monoprice 12AG cable and end it just about the worst cable for twist and coiling I've come across. Ive been using it for internal wiring with cable tied. So I ordered some other cable 12 AG form amazon and thats in place for the external speaker leads but for the sake of 20 minutes I'll A-B just to see if two very similar cables sound the same. I will also ask my partner to see if she hears any difference if I think there is. I am hoping there isn't, Why ? Because that will open up a can of worms and I will Strat wondering what another cable might sound like :thumbsdow.

JUST FOR THE RECORD I AM NOT AN ADVOCATE OF EXPENSIVE CABLES, but do know the can and do make a difference in a number of cases, alas experimentation is the only way to find the answers. These cable cost £20 for 50 foot by the way (Please don't 'call me out' on this its is my opinion and I have been experimenting with HiFI and AV for nearly 40 years)
Test it blind
 

IWC Dopplel

Well-known Member
Test it blind
I will ask Jane to listen A or B I can’t so easily do blind myself as I need to unplug and muck around a bit. But fortunately I have no expectation or bias I’m aware of one was £24 for 50 foot the other £17 for 10m. I have managed to get a bit of compliance in the coiled spring (the Monoprice cable) by straightening it and holding it flat and moving it a bit. Perhaps I am biased as it’s quite annoying 🙄
 

Triggaaar

Distinguished Member
I will ask Jane to listen A or B I can’t so easily do blind myself as I need to unplug and muck around a bit.
If doing that, you should still do it blind if you want accurate results. So don't swap from A to B and back, but instead, unplug it all and toss a coin to see which next, then plug it back in, and repeat. And don't speak to Jane while doing it, just set it up and play as agreed, then change it and play as agreed. Ideally several times, and she can write a list of each demo, and whether she heard a difference, while you write a list of which setup each demo was.

But fortunately I have no expectation or bias I’m aware of one was £24 for 50 foot the other £17 for 10m. I have managed to get a bit of compliance in the coiled spring by straightening it and holding it flat and moving it a bit. Perhaps I am biased as it’s quite annoying 🙄
You won't be able to help telling yourself that you either can or can't tell the difference. If you really want to know, then it has to be blind.
 

IWC Dopplel

Well-known Member
If doing that, you should still do it blind if you want accurate results. So don't swap from A to B and back, but instead, unplug it all and toss a coin to see which next, then plug it back in, and repeat. And don't speak to Jane while doing it, just set it up and play as agreed, then change it and play as agreed. Ideally several times, and she can write a list of each demo, and whether she heard a difference, while you write a list of which setup each demo was.

You won't be able to help telling yourself that you either can or can't tell the difference. If you really want to know, then it has to be blind.
If the differences are tiny then I agree with the mind playing tricks but then I mind less anyway !
 

Triggaaar

Distinguished Member
If the differences are tiny then I agree with the mind playing tricks
If there's a substantial difference, then it would suggest one of your cables is faulty.

More likely is that you'll come to the conclusion that one lot of cables just adds a little something, and although you say "but then I mind less anyway !" you also said "I will also ask my partner to see if she hears any difference if I think there is. I am hoping there isn't, Why ? Because that will open up a can of worms and I will Start wondering what another cable might sound like"

So by not doing it properly, you run the risk of opening that can of worms.

I appreciate that switching between the options might just take too long to do it the required number of times for a blind test, but if it's not blind you should go in knowing it's not right.
 

Luminated67

Well-known Member
Never did any testing on frequency but I bought some bass traps for the corners of the room and it definitely altered the bass for the better. Much tighter and defined, it had been a while since I watched the The Great Wall but I re watched it briefly in particular the drum section and my Lord what a difference.

Don’t know if I missed it but have you already done bass traps in the corners?
 

Triggaaar

Distinguished Member
Never did any testing on frequency but I bought some bass traps for the corners of the room and it definitely altered the bass for the better. Much tighter and defined, it had been a while since I watched the The Great Wall but I re watched it briefly in particular the drum section and my Lord what a difference.
Did you just build a section and then stuff it with insulation? And if so, did you have one end slightly open (maybe covered in something thin) to allow the sound in?

One idea I'm interested in is a trap in the floor, that deals with first reflections from the front speakers. A designer in the US puts them in his projects when he can, but I don't know what I'd put on top of them, for you to walk on, that also lets the sound through. Presumably with a base trap you don't need to worry, as the waves you're trying to stop will get in through any boards you fit, but for the front speakers I'd like to trap mid and high frequencies.
 

Luminated67

Well-known Member
^No I didn’t go to this extreme because I wasn’t sure what affect it would have so simply bought the sections out of Amazon, only £110 for all corners but convinced me I need to look into this stuff a lot more.
 

IWC Dopplel

Well-known Member
I have quite limited room work right now, by the screen the walls and ceiling and floor have 9mm board wrapped in velvet, all pictures have soundproof from backing I have 4 GIK panels currently and no bass traps, here is my current RT's and waterfall and EQ for the centre channel. I have yet to adjust the LFE EQ, I am adding some more 9mm MDF with velvet at the back, I could back the screen with 2-3" of something at the moment it just has a black material hanging to remove any behind the screen reflection, centre channel measured yesterday. Only on central mic position, not sure about the 500 Hz dip

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IWC Dopplel

Well-known Member

Luminated67

Well-known Member
For a very modest outlay those bass traps from Amazon seems to work for me and with Amazon’s return policy it would be interesting what affect it would give you.
 

IWC Dopplel

Well-known Member
Okay Sunday a listen and A-B ....

Firstly the amp upgrade :):):) very happy here, there is an obvious improvement is weight grip and control, also there seems to be more clarity in the notes, less blurring and more definition. Dynamics everywhere seemed to have upgraded, I guess that is perception and how we hear things. Great subs in 2 channel do seem to do more than just add bass. I am guessing the whole scene is improved if the foundation is right or better. Was the bass poor before ? absolutely not, my only reason for the purchase was trying one amp as I have one used in 2 channel and one SF sub has a very small amount of noise, no-one else notices even when I point it out, but I do when I leaned over to turn it on ! I did notice that listening to a single sub with a meatier external amp it sounded tighter and cleaner. £1k for the project I think is pretty good in the grand scheme. As I get more time with the change I will keep you posted but so far very good indeed

Cables Both cables are sounding good with some small differences, interestingly some the differences seemed to be outside of sub frequencies. I will measure both sets of cables and see what the graphs looks like. Overall the cheapest by a fraction the DCSK I prefer, I wanted to prefer the Monoprice as I spent 45 minutes straightening them ! I haven't removed them yet as it was only me A-B ing and I have yet to 'test' Jane and see what results I get, I also want to measure them. If the apparent difference is consistent I will summarise, worth a £30 experiment ? - Probably !
 

IWC Dopplel

Well-known Member
For a very modest outlay those bass traps from Amazon seems to work for me and with Amazon’s return policy it would be interesting what affect it would give you.
Do you have a before and after with the traps I’d be interested in seeing which frequencies it cut ?
Best A
 

IWC Dopplel

Well-known Member
I have done a deal on a pair of Cremona auditor's :clap:


hopefully see if I can pick them uo this weekend. Next job will be to see what I can make for wall brackets, then it will be moving the sides further round and hiked moving the EQ's subs :lesson:
 

IWC Dopplel

Well-known Member
A few more panels fitted, I'll now take them off and stretch velvet across and stable, then refit, I'm also picking up the new to me Sonus Faber Auditor's :clap:

I watched Gold last, night it was looking and sounding terrific, hopefully this will take a little of the rear liveliness out and then I'll experimenting with bass traps

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Cinema Acoustics 1.jpg

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