IWC's Cinema Room

Alas with no processor I cant do the same with my Mini DSP as I have two inputs only, be great if they did a 3-4 dsp,
You're just sending LFE to your Mini DSP right?

I could then make up a cable for the centre and run that in parallel. I keep meaning to measure the fronts in small and see what they roll off at for this setting !
I'd certainly try it with the subs setup via mini DSP, and speakers set to small, and everything tuned for that alone. The Mini DSP will allow multiple setups so you can switch between them.


Should you have 'Room is sealed' selected?
Also, it's not showing on your screen shot: are your subs 2 & 3 also set to 23 Hz, sealed, zero delay and gain? And also what you've input for your front Left & Right.
 
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Hi yes, Subs are fed via the LFE from the AV2>Mini DSP>each sub and at the same time by the L,R channels to the second input in parallel to direct to the fronts (so signal to the fronts goes to fronts directs and also to the Mini DSP) as the fronts need more EQ as I will be adding EQ'd subs to the fronts non EQ'd I add additional EQ on the second input of the mini DSP. All the subs are EQ and aligned on the output

A better sim, but only really useful to see the main nodes and experiment with position before starting in my opinion. The subs are somewhere between ported and sealed using passive radiators as well as the main driver, so technically sealed but they behave in between as I understand. I have read that room sealed means sealed and possibly better to choose not sealed in the sim, however the bass does measure better with the door open, really hard to estimate surfaces, etc, etc. I definitely get the 24, 68 and 102 nodes and the 25 and 50-60 nulls.

With the Acurus it was easy to EQ the subs flat and do some EQ in the lower frequencies for the L,R and centre I was able to experiment with cross over and I preferred 40 for the front and 50 for the Centre and 70 for the surrounds. With the Panny and AV2 I prefer the L,C,R set to large and the surrounds set to small, I will see what the impact of setting small is and what frequency it falls away at but nothing I can do to change this (I dont think !)

I'd be interested to know how much low range goes to the surrounds with some film tracks

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I might experiment with a Mini DSP 10x10 HD, I could then wire in (again in parallel) inputs from all the channels and add the appropriate filter on the input so I blend the EQ'd subs with large channels throughout. I am just not sure this is configurable and reading the manual I think so but not 100% sure. This does feel an awful lot like creating your own processor in a very clunky fashion though !
 
I might experiment with a Mini DSP 10x10 HD, I could then wire in (again in parallel) inputs from all the channels and add the appropriate filter on the input so I blend the EQ'd subs with large channels throughout.
I'm not sure I follow the point of that. If your Centre channel is getting sent power at 50 Hz, then that signal isn't getting sent to the subs. And I don't see how your centre channel, on it's own, can better balance a 50 Hz signal across your listening area, than 3 properly setup subs.
And the same obviously applies to all your other channels.

I'm avoiding some DIY, so I'll have a play with REW.
 
Another sub looks like an idea ! I'll keep an eye out, they stopped making them a few years back and they were expensive (just under £4k each), I bought new old stock from a supplier in Italy when they were discounted down to £1.3k each... I think they are pretty good subs as they are 36kg each and have very light but rigid drivers, I swapped out the plate amps though as they has a 19Hz cut built in and I didn't think the amps were as meaty as I wanted
 
Another sub looks like an idea ! I'll keep an eye out, they stopped making them a few years back and they were expensive (just under £4k each)
Oh blimey. Sorry, it's too easy spending other people's money. The sub wouldn't have to match though, particularly if it's hidden at the front where I've put it. But I don't think there's any point if you leave your mains set to large.
 
I'm not sure I follow the point of that. If your Centre channel is getting sent power at 50 Hz, then that signal isn't getting sent to the subs. And I don't see how your centre channel, on it's own, can better balance a 50 Hz signal across your listening area, than 3 properly setup subs.
And the same obviously applies to all your other channels.

I'm avoiding some DIY, so I'll have a play with REW.
A bit like bi-amping where you take the same signal and send it to two places rather than one, so either a Y cable or two outlet sockets wired in parallel, so no xover just working together with EQ applied to the subs accordingly
 
A bit like bi-amping where you take the same signal and send it to two places rather than one, so either a Y cable or two outlet sockets wired in parallel, so no xover just working together with EQ applied to the subs accordingly
So you'd send the signal from the Front Left, Centre, and Right to the subs as well (obviously filtering out everything above your chosen crossover)?
 
Yes I could with the 10x10 (I think) set every speaker to large then for each speaker measure what they are missing and then add in the subs to compliment so not crossover but simply add what's missing. I have done that successfully with the L,R. The advantage is you don't have to put the channels through an extra A>D and D>A and rather than listening to just the subs your listening to both the channel and the subs for some of the bass. As you'd only add in the missing bits you can be crossing over at the earliest time possible, for my fronts they start to roll off (the subs) by 50Hz and all done by 70Hz

The only 'waste' so to speak is I am asking my speakers to deliver sound where they are unable, so might still want to keep the surrounds set to small.

When I listen to two channel set up this way with the AV system, turning off the subs loses more than just bass, seems that the low frequencies are harmonics in other areas, male voice sounds better and I am pretty sure not even Cohen goes much below 50 Hz. So my thinking was how to add a little more low frequency if it would make the voicing on films even better. (Right now I actually think the dialogue is very, very good considerably better than I was able to achieve with the Acurus and better from memory than most systems, even Adam with a Trinnov, Chord mono blocks and large B&W speakers commented on how good the Sonus Faber centre channel is)
 
Yes I could with the 10x10 (I think) set every speaker to large then for each speaker measure what they are missing and then add in the subs to compliment so not crossover but simply add what's missing.

So when you say 'measure what they're missing', you mean measuring with a sweep, at a few listening positions?
 
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Exactly sweep with no subs then EQ so when the subs are added the response is as flat as possible so I effectively cut the Subs further to account for the lack of EQ on the chosen channel
 
Exactly sweep with no subs then EQ so when the subs are added the response is as flat as possible so I effectively cut the Subs further to account for the lack of EQ on the chosen channel
That sounds good, so long as you EQ after adding the subs too. And obviously testing one main speaker at a time.
 
Well I haven't ordered one yet, but the minidsp10x10 HD will allow me to take parallel inputs from the AV2 (I can rewire and re-use some RCA terminals and relabel accordingly) to provide a neat mirrored output then feed into the Mini DSP for each channel and I can then match each input to the EQ'd sub pack and effectively add any missing bass and run 'large' for all channels. Interestingly the D>A, A>D which although only used for the subwoofers is a higher spec than the Mini DSP 2x4HD, so possible I improve the low end performance as well as allowing me to backfill and EQ each channel from 16-80 Hz with the subs
 
AV2 unused terminals now wired in I just need to decide when to spend the £700 on the 10x10 dsp. Actually took more time and care than I expected 🤓

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10x10 and l leads ready for the weekend installation

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However hard you try it always ends up a little messy 😳

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For the heathens, like myself, what have you upgraded and why?

Agree on the leads, you can spend ages on it and it never looks like the pictures some people post.
 
Simple in theory all speakers are analogue from the Blu-ray player so any crossovers are in the player, the 10x10 is like a large powerful 2x4 and drives the three subs in the same way but has more input channels allowing me to add low frequencies to the individual channels in parallel to each channel. I set all speakers to large and simply add what’s missing by EQ each channel input to the subs. It allows me only to have the subs going from D>A in the player then A>D and D>A in the 10x10. I have parallel outputs in the AV2 so each channel gets the full range with no extra processing and has the subs adding anything missing in the 10x10

So no crossover to low frequencies just the missing added for the 7 channels

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Still looks a millions times tidier than my cables. I’ve actually given up now and just close the door on my rack 😂😂
 
Well l have some panels to fit in between the back velvet panels and enough dark blue velvet to cover so hoping this will reduce my RT60’s a little further. Hopefully I might find the time to do this at the weekend. I’ve also made a decision that I will add another sub, in the location Triggaaar suggested as I can fit a 150L box there and use another BK amp as I have one and I even have a spare amp box. Avonplywood sell lovely oak veneered birch ply and CNC cut so I’m looking for the perfect 18” driver to build a black oak stained sub that will visually disappear visually but not sonically. Ironically the bass at the moment with the 10x10 allowing me to use all the drivers in parallel with the subs is the best I’ve heard at home 🤔 it’s only the fact that I don’t drop below 16-18Hz and the dip in my EQ at 25 Hz that’s causing me to drop e-mails to Fane, B&C, JBL, Eminence, 18Sound with driver questions..... oh and I have an itch for an 18” sub after coveting the JBL 4642a some 15 years ago......
 
I have ordered an 18" BMS 18N862 after a lot of homework and conversations, the cabinet will be 530x530x730 and internally braced with 25mm Birch ply, fortunately the driver is lighter than most so I think the whole unit will be around 55kg, which is still a big lump ! soonish to be 7.4.0 :clap:
 
Most of the way through adding some more velvet covered panels, just on last piece of velvet left that I need to get the other half to sew together and I am nearly finished with the my sub design :)

I find this method really good and fool proof for a smart finish, I'll paint the screws when all done. Its a very dark blue, curtains I bought for my first light controlled cinema room in 2008
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All done came out great, perfect fit. Completely out of old curtains now, I do have a bit use to throw over the door, I might be tempted to add some panels to fill the top of the film cupboard. I really like this blue, its not harsh like black.

I watched a film last night and I do think it has added a little damping as well. I'll permanent marker the screw heads this morning. I'll check my RT60's when I do my next sweeps. My next steps are building sub 4 (all bit ordered), experiment with rear fans and attempt to quieten the PJ a little more.

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I did think about a bigger room that we don't really use, it does have shutters (so I could shut out the light okay) and I could locate the PJ a long way from the seating area. But as we are still hoping to move I think I need to stop tweaking and enjoy the movies !
 

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