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I've just biwired my speakers.

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by Malky1903, Feb 9, 2004.

  1. Malky1903

    Malky1903
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    After a lot of thought on deciding if I should biwire my front speakers, I decided to give it a go.
    My front speakers are Mordaunt Short MS902's on Atacama Nexus 6 stands and my amp is a Pio 912. The speaker cable I have used [for test purposes only] is some cheap 79 strand cable from Bruce Miller for £1 metre.
    The results are, wow, what a difference. The main noticable difference is in music but next to no difference movie wise. Vocals have a lot more clarity and the bass is a lot tighter and that was without the use of a sub. Overall, I am most impressed and glad that I have noticed a considerable difference where many others who have tried, have not.
    I guess I'd better start looking for some better speaker cable :)
     
  2. cribeiro

    cribeiro
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    Did you make a blind test? Sometimes we are just driven by our brain to hear what is not there... I mean, I don't say you are wrong, but I'd do it in such a way that no psicological reasons come into the game, to be certain that it is true. It is something usual with anything to do with perception.
    Since the opinions are so divergent, I'd believe more your experience if the test was made in the proper way :)
    As I said, don't get me wrong! I don't mean you are a liar or something... I also have biwireable speakers and would like to be sure if it is worth to give it a try.
     
  3. Malky1903

    Malky1903
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    What is the proper way? I wrote this based purely on my own findings. There is no doubt that some people who have tried biwiring have noticed little or no difference. I just thought I would take a few minutes of my time to share with anyone who is interested to give biwiring a try if your amp/speakers support this type of speaker connection.
    As they say, you have to suck it and see.
     
  4. cribeiro

    cribeiro
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    The problem with anything related to perception is that we are biased by our own desires, feelings, emotions, expectations... It could be said that, if you really wish to see a cow flying, you'll see it. Kind of a placebo thing.
    This is why in this kind of tests it is useful to make use of third parties, being you just a passive object. You don't know what the input is, you can only say what your impression is, but won't be thinking "this shoud sound better" because you don't know it.

    The way I'd do it would be the following:
    set your speakers by means of a switch that a friend can operate. One position of the switch would correspond to the biwiring option, the other to the normal wiring. You sit in the listening position, and you friend will randomly set the switch to bi-wire or normal wire, in a sequence you don't know, but that he will previously write down for the checking in the end. You'll have a paper with numbered rows, and will write your impression about the sound in each row. In the end, if your sequence corresponds to the sequence he did with the switch, and all the "good sound" agrees with the option bi-wire, then you can be certainly sure that it sounds better.

    For example, your friend makes:
    1. Bi
    2. Normal
    3.Normal
    4.Normal
    5.Bi
    6.Normal
    7.Bi
    8.Bi
    9.Bi
    10.Normal

    And your list of your impressions is
    1. Good
    2.Worse
    3.Still bad
    4. Still bad
    5. Better
    6.Worse
    7.Better
    8.Still good
    9.Still good
    10.Worse

    This case would mean that biwiring is certainly better. But, if it doesn't match (correlate to) the first list, it means there is no difference. The longer the list, the better the certainty in the result. As an example of completely indiference with both wiring methods, imagine your list is "same" for all cases, and you end up saying your friend-"hey, buddy, did you switch always to the same option".
    Findings in Physics are pretty objective (and even there, there is a subjective factor, I work in research...), but in topics related to psicology and perception, the "experiments" are much more difficult to make objective.
    I told you don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against biwire, don't be angry with me... I mean, this is just the way I see it and have heard about it, maybe now a psicologist will pop up and tell me I am totally wrong...
     
  5. Dom36

    Dom36
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    Lol funny how you spell psychology.
    I'm no psychologist, but am in process of completing AS level Psychology and what cribeiro said is correct!
    If you believe something to be different, that you have improved, then you hear it to be better even though it may not be.
    What was suggested with the list etc would be a good idea to test if it was working...or even do the same thing to someone else, effecticly you being the friend...
     
  6. cribeiro

    cribeiro
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    :) Sorry, I did it in a rush and I am not a native speaker... I guess you noticed. You could see I wrote Physics properly... It is my field :)
    I usually check an online dicctionary, and I thought I should because I was not sure about that word, but as I said, I did it in a rush. Thanks for the correction. BTW, what is "Lol"? That I couldn't guess yet...
     
  7. Dom36

    Dom36
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    Lol = Laughing out Loud,
    Getting slightly off topic here....
    Malabbey, you still with us...you gonna give it a go?
     
  8. Malky1903

    Malky1903
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    Here's me thinking that until today, this thread was dead and buried.
    Thanks for your input all the same cribeiro. Your views give me something else to think about. However, I am still certain that I heard an improvement. I will gather my friends and try a test or two just to see if I am right in my findings.
    Watch this space.

    BTW, lol means lots of laughs or laugh out loud.

    PS. When you coming round :laugh:
     
  9. cribeiro

    cribeiro
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    Ok, I wait anxiously to see your results. When done properly, it deserves a lot of attention, because it is a very hot topic. And if you tell me you can still feel the difference positively, then I'll have a new little hole in my pocket... because I'll also try! :)
    I am glad I can help, I hope threads I started will someday also be answered... I know the feeling!
    Greetings,

    Alberto
     
  10. bobbypunk

    bobbypunk
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    i don't care why it would sound better, i don't care if my brain is leading me up the garden path, if it means (i think) i'm hearing better sound let my ear drums have their (pretend) fun.
     
  11. Malky1903

    Malky1903
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    :laugh: I'm with you....................for now :D
     
  12. Malky1903

    Malky1903
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    I may have done this wrong, but I've just done a little test myself. First, I pulled out the cable in the H connections on the speakers and found that all I got was too much bass and a little treble. I then pulled out the L connections and I got too much treble and little bass. Would that be down to the amp knowing that I have previously connected to H & L and it will only recognise one or the other if only 2 of the 4 terminals on the speakers are not connected even though there is 4 connections on the amp?
    I guess I would have to disconnect the biwires altogether and then reconnect either H or L on the speakers to notice as that's how my speakers were connected before and they sounded fine then.
     
  13. bob1

    bob1
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    I take it from your last post your havin a laugh.
    It must sound better biwired because the bass and trebble don't bump into each along the same cable.I take it that they have a little chat with each other before going down their own cable and make shure they reach the other end at the same time.:D

    To tried it once ,couldn't hear the slightest difference and got strange looks(more than nornal) from the wife with a coment like "what the fudge are you doin now".
     
  14. Malky1903

    Malky1903
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    Forgive me. I'm a bit of a noob. Can you tell? :D
     
  15. Reiner

    Reiner
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    Please do me a favour and compare the bi-wiring with the metal bridge in and out. Any difference in sound?

    (inserting the bridge does not cause any harm to amps or speakers)
     
  16. Stereo Steve

    Stereo Steve
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    Many people do find an improvement from bi-wiring but it's usually down to the original cable having too much resistance and simply doubling up reduces this and lets the amp work better. Doubling up the cable and not biwiring would have the same effect. I suspect, this is what Reiner is angling at.

    It's not the fact that you are bi-wiring that is improving your sound, it's that you're speaker cable now has less resistance.
     
  17. Reiner

    Reiner
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    Spot on. :smashin:
     
  18. Malky1903

    Malky1903
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    That's not what I've read. In my speaker manual, they stress that the bridge must be removed if biwiring to avoid any possible damage to the speaker.
     
  19. Ed Selley

    Ed Selley
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    We say that as it reduces the chance of shorting by accident- shouldn't be an issue if you connect things cleanly.
     
  20. Stereo Steve

    Stereo Steve
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    I think the risk of harm is no more than with a normal connection. I guess there are more wires flying around and it would be possible to connect both reds to the woofer and both blacks to the tweeter, so causing damage but you would have to be a monkey to do that (plenty about I suppose).

    Anyway, leaving the bridge in simple negates the biwire at the speaker end, rather than the amp end, where it's negated anyway. It really is a load of old tosh but I guess the cable makers can sell £3 worth of cable for £50 rather than £1.50 worth for £20 so it does make sense.
     
  21. Ed Selley

    Ed Selley
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    We have to write to the lowest common denominator these days in the interest of liability :(
     
  22. bobbypunk

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    I'm going to stay here in my magic castle listening to the fact that sticking chewing gum on top of the cd player improves the sound, you can all mock, laugh and quote the laws of physics at me untill you're blue in the face but bi-wiring makes all the speakers i set up sound better to me. I don't care if i'm imagining it, it sounds better!!!
    What are the opinions (of the bi-wire sceptics) on Bi amping?
     
  23. pwiles1968

    pwiles1968
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    Bi-Amping Now we are talking, well recommended especially for an AV set-up:smashin: , I definitely think it was worth it in my set-up, even if the Mono-Blocks cost as much as my AV amp, it is the unfortunate law of 'diminishing returns', although saying that they still cost me less that a good CD player and gave much greater improvement IMO.

    I did Bi-Wire my 603’s before Bi-Amping only because I had a slight issue with sibilance on some vocals, Sheryl Crow is the worst, and I did hear a difference when I Bi-Wired (there was no sibilance) , but it was not night and day change.
     
  24. bobbypunk

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    i tried a bit of an experiment a while back, took any old receiver with pre-outs.
    4 x Nad C370 switched to mono power amp mode
    1 amp left high
    1 amp left low
    1 amp right high
    1 amp right low

    used a pair of acoustic energy ae309

    to cut a long story to fairly long it was an amazing effortless sound which made the C370 more than four times better!!
     

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