ITV, on Sky, World Cup, 4:3???

Discussion in 'Sky Digital TV Forum' started by rnjones, Jun 1, 2002.

  1. rnjones

    rnjones
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    This may be a daft question. But whilst watching the opening of the world cup and the France Senegal game, I reverted to good old analogue transmissions. Why? Well ITV on Sky seem to have no clue. 4:3 picture with vertical bars either side of the screen every time the the action came from Korea. Fine in the studio.

    Whats going on? Analogue picture was in Widescreen. Havent caught a BBC game yet so I cant compare.

    But surely we pay for an enhanced service with Digital text, etc etc. But have to use analogue to get a decent picture.

    Mystified.

    Interested if anyone has a good idea.
    Rog
     
  2. Squirrel God

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  3. rnjones

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    Hi Squirrel thanks for the info. Read the local link and Digital Spy.
    I cannot belive that BBC and ITV are so tight as to not take the 16:9 feed.

    Was analogue widescreen? Well it looked like it on My Sony FS70 TV. Anyway it was better than the stupid Digital excuse for a picture.
    Rog
     
  4. Lex

    Lex
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    The analogue broadcasts were not in widescreen, you were just watching them squashed. ;)
     
  5. Weird Wolf

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    The feeds coming from Japan are 4x3 only, presumably because most countries still only have 4x3 tv sets. England is one of the very few that transmit in 16x9 widescreen so we have to 'fit' the 4x3 feed into our 16x9 screens.
    This 4x3 feed either has to be 'fit to width' therefore losing the top and bottom of the picture (not preferable) or 'fit to height' thereby keeping all picture information and creating 'shoulders' on either side to fill out the 16x9 frame. This is what you are seeing on your screen.
    I only know this cuz I sometimes work at LWT in the edit suites and this is standard practice.
     
  6. Rochdale

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    I'd rather watch it in 4:3 with panasonic 'just' mode than with black bars down each side. I find myself switching back to analogue whenever they do that, bloody annoying.
     
  7. Weird Wolf

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    Same with me...the BBC world cup coverage just has black 'shoulders' and I switch to 4x3 mode on my Telewest box so that it fills the screen properly.
    I'm afraid that until the whole world converts to 16x9, which will not happen anytime soon, these sorts of broadcasts (including news) will continue to go out 4x3 because of international sales. Therefore, we will have this problem of fitting 4x3 material to our 16x9 spec indefinitely.
    The conversion in this country to 16x9 has been painful and expensive, and the likelyhood of other poorer countries going that way are slim.
    Ah well..
     
  8. Squirrel God

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    I really can't tolerate football (or any sport) in 'stretched' modes because it distorts the pitch, players, ball etc. I'd rather put up with the vertical bars.

    As for switching to 4:3 mode or analogue, no way I'd do that either because then I'd be losing resolution and clarity.

    And just to make a correction here, the football transmissions on digital are 14:9 anyway NOT 4:3 (and are displayed within a 16:9 frame).

    After watching 5 world cup games (half through my 6th game), I must say you do get used to the 14:9 ratio after a while. However, I very much favour the BBC's black bars over ITV's red wavy pattern crap :)
     
  9. Xeonic

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    It looks like the bbc"interactive" transmission on sky is widescreen proper, but you have to put up with double "dogs" (what's next, pop up on screen adverts?? :rolleyes:)

    As for itv, i think the mpeg compression is set to super-douper-low-bandwidth mode - compare it with analogue and you'll see what i mean!
     
  10. Weird Wolf

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    Hi Squirrel God..
    I disagree with you on the 14x9 thing...on my cable pictures, the feed IS 4x3 fitted into a 16x9 picture. 14x9 'letterbox' is an aspect ratio that was designed as a compromise for programmes shot in 16x9 widescreen to fit onto 4x3 analogue sets. Originally, they tried to transmit 16x9 letterbox (i.e. big black bars at the top and bottom) for normal 4x3 TV's but they got complaints because of those bars. 14x9 is a 'halfway house' so that the bars are smaller, but you lose the sides of the picture.
    Digital tele should never have to bother with 14x9 at all...it's a purely analogue thing. Perhaps your TV is 'zoomed in' to see the pictures in the 14x9 aspect?
     
  11. Weird Wolf

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    On Telewest cable, the compression is bad sometimes but at it's worst during dissolves....yuk!!
     
  12. Squirrel God

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    I am watching it via digital terrestrial (Pace DTA). It is definitely NOT 4:3 on that. My TV has automatically switched to wide mode. The Beeb were supposed to take the 4:3 feed, so I presume the Beeb have decided to crop and zoom a little.

    I thought it was 4:3 as well until I compared it with a true 4:3 transmission (running on C4 and C5).

    Maybe it's not quite 14:9 but it's pretty close.
     
  13. Weird Wolf

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    Hmmm, strange. Don't know what's happening there...
    Anyway, bit p****d orf by Eng-er-land's performance today...need a beer to comtemplate it all...
     
  14. Squirrel God

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    Yeah, it is odd - the compression on digital terrestrial isn't awful either. I think it must depend on the supplier as well as the broadcaster. Save me one of those beers mate :D
     
  15. Kevo

    Kevo
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    Why? You aren't gaining anything except a distorted picture.
    Just watch the action and you soon forget about the vertical bars.

    Granted, the fancy patterns that ITV and BBC use can be annoying, I can't understand why they can't use plain old black.

    I've noticed that the large screen monitors in some of the stadia are in widescreen, if you're quick you can glimpse a few secs of a 16:9 transmission ;)
     
  16. pwoody

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    I switched to terrestrial to watch England & Sweden. I am glad I am not the only person annoyed with Digital picture quality! Even though ITV on satellite pops my tv into widescreen with the VERY annoying red bars the terrestrial picture was sharper by miles. I think the easiest thing to compare the 2 for quality is the grass. Anyway still no excuse for such a crap second half performance.
     
  17. Weird Wolf

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    Kevo,

    Because, at least on my digi box, the pictures are 4x3 on a 16x9 transmission i.e. with 'shoulders', when I set it to 4x3 the pictures are NOT distorted because its a 4x3 picture on a 4x3 set - it effectively zooms into the picture to fill the screen.
    I set it like this because the pictures are 'smaller' when in 16x9 letterbox on my 4x3 TV and it's trickier to see what's happening on wide shots.
    I've also noticed that the captions are 4x3 'safe', which basically means that any graphics/info are kept within certain boundaries so that they are guaranteed to be seen on any 4x3 set.
     

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