ITV HD now testing.

If thats true then its a massively stupid idea - no ITV HD on sky HD - makes no sense wotsoever. I would imagine they have hidden the testing on SKY a bit better thats all...
 

Stephen Neal

Distinguished Member
How big is the Eurobird footprint of the transponder it is on?

Could ITVHD be being broadcast with an odd codec header so that FTA receivers ignore it ? This would be very helpful for rights reasons if the Eurobird footprint is larger than Astra 2D? If the footprint is wider than 2D then ITV will have to ensure that it is restricted somehow - and encryption isn't an option for freesat, so "hiding" the streams would be their only option?

Just because a Sky receiver doesn't see the stream currently (just as they don't see Sky interactive streams) because it is not flagged as a standard H264 stream, doesn't mean that Sky boxes running an ITV HD interactive launching application that correctly finds the hidden stream isn't a possibility? This would presumably also be possible on Freesat boxes.

Or alternatively they could just be "hiding" the stream for testing purposes?

I very much doubt that any video encoding other than H264 will really be used - though flagging the stream as using a non-standard codec, or making it appear as private data, would be a way of ensuring that standard FTA boxes didn't see it - though PC and Mac users with DVB receivers would be able to get it?
 

Robbie Razzler

Active Member
Why would itv want to miss out on nearly 500,000 sky HD customers:confused:

If they go down this route freesat will be another itv digital flop
 

Stephen Neal

Distinguished Member
Why would itv want to miss out on nearly 500,000 sky HD customers:confused:

If they go down this route freesat will be another itv digital flop
I think it is VERY unlikely that ITV HD won't be received by Sky HD receivers - the backlash against ITV when showing Sport in HD would be immense - and it would not be in their interest to restrict viewing to the freesat platform.

Unlike ON/ITV Digital - where ITV made money from subscriptions to the platform, ITV won't make money from freesat directly, so they have no interest in excluding Sky viewers from their channels in this instance. Given ITV's current nightmare share price fall and tanking ratings on some nights, they need as many viewers on as many platforms as possible after all.

The Digital Spy post is saying that the ITV HD test stream cant' CURRENTLY be received by Sky boxes (but then neither was the FX HD test stream - Sky boxes can't add all DVB-S2 services via ADD CHANNELS - though it appears ITV HD tests can't be added for different reasons as full DVB-S2 boxes don't see the video stream correctly either) - but that doesn't mean that the Press Red application won't be able to tune to it. Many channels that are tested can't be received by Sky boxes, and many interactive streams are "invisible" to Sky boxes when added manually, but are fine when accessed from within the Press Red application.

I think people have to wait until launch - or until ITV make a statement about it - before jumping to any conclusions one way or the other.
 

mossym

Distinguished Member
I think it is VERY unlikely that ITV HD won't be received by Sky HD receivers - the backlash against ITV when showing Sport in HD would be immense - and it would not be in their interest to restrict viewing to the freesat platform.

Unlike ON/ITV Digital - where ITV made money from subscriptions to the platform, ITV won't make money from freesat directly, so they have no interest in excluding Sky viewers from their channels in this instance. Given ITV's current nightmare share price fall and tanking ratings on some nights, they need as many viewers on as many platforms as possible after all.

The Digital Spy post is saying that the ITV HD test stream cant' CURRENTLY be received by Sky boxes (but then neither was the FX HD test stream - Sky boxes can't add all DVB-S2 services via ADD CHANNELS - though it appears ITV HD tests can't be added for different reasons as full DVB-S2 boxes don't see the video stream correctly either) - but that doesn't mean that the Press Red application won't be able to tune to it. Many channels that are tested can't be received by Sky boxes, and many interactive streams are "invisible" to Sky boxes when added manually, but are fine when accessed from within the Press Red application.

I think people have to wait until launch - or until ITV make a statement about it - before jumping to any conclusions one way or the other.
well it would force people to buy freesat Hd boxes. perhaps part of a deal with the box manufacturers to drive up sales?
 

Bachstrad

Novice Member
<snip>I think people have to wait until launch - or until ITV make a statement about it - before jumping to any conclusions one way or the other.<snip>
Absolutely true, we can speculate all we want but we won't know for definite until launch.

IMHO I too would be surprised if Sky's growing number of HD subscribers are ignored. AIUI, the only 'encrypted' part of Freesat is the EPG, this would indicate that ITV HD will broadcast in the same way, i.e free of encryption. Sending it via the 'red button' shouldn't preclude Sky HD users. We'll just have to wait and see!

ATB

Max
 

Bachstrad

Novice Member
well it would force people to buy freesat Hd boxes. perhaps part of a deal with the box manufacturers to drive up sales?
It wouldn't force me to buy a Freesat HD box in order to receive ITV HD! :eek:

Personally, compared to the HD offering from Sky, Freesat HD has nothing to offer me. It will obviously appeal to those people who can't get a Freeview terrestial signal and to those people who can't get their heads around paying for a TV service. Not forgetting those people who consider that paying any money to 'Murdoch' is akin to financing some sort of destruction of society as we know it! :rolleyes:

I never watch Freeview, apart from the very rare ocaision that I need to watch something whilst my STB is recording two programs and I need to watch something on BBC or ITV. Very rare indeed! For anyone expecting lots of free sport & films in HD, I think they'll find Freesat HD very disappointing indeed.

Would I be pleased to watch only the limited HD material available from the BBC or CH 4 and soon to be ITV? .... no I wouldn't! :eek:

ATB

Max
 

choddo2006

Novice Member
well it would force people to buy freesat Hd boxes. perhaps part of a deal with the box manufacturers to drive up sales?
More likely since almost noone wants 2 boxes under the telly, it would just stop a large percentage of SkyHD customers watching ITV's HD content. Question then would be, do they care? How big a customer base is it compared to what they're expecting on freesat.

Personally I think it will be available on Sky.
 

mossym

Distinguished Member
they might be thinkign the footie is a big enough draw. but it was only an idle thought, as said lets wait and see what happens on launch, it could all change
 

Stephen Neal

Distinguished Member
Absolutely true, we can speculate all we want but we won't know for definite until launch.

IMHO I too would be surprised if Sky's growing number of HD subscribers are ignored. AIUI, the only 'encrypted' part of Freesat is the EPG, this would indicate that ITV HD will broadcast in the same way, i.e free of encryption. Sending it via the 'red button' shouldn't preclude Sky HD users. We'll just have to wait and see!

ATB

Max
Yep - and AIUI the EPG is simply proprietary - not encrypted (i.e. it is not cryptographically processed - it is simply compressed to increase bandwith efficiency and transmission speed). Sky's EPG isn't encrypted either - and has been reverse engineered AIUI. (TSReader and the USB CielPlus interface allows access to it, and there is software knocking around for DVB-S cards to read it)
 

Broadz

Well-known Member
ITV makes its money by selling advertising space to companies who want their commercials for their products to be seen by the biggest prospective customer base possible. If ITV HD limited that revenue by denying people with a Sky HD box from viewing their output unless they also purchased a Freesat HD box, they would be shooting themselves in the foot.

ITV want as many viewers as possible - not as few viewers as possible.
 

Gae

Novice Member
:thumbsup:

I'm picking up the ITV HD stream in DVBViewer using the H.264 codec and AC3 audio filter. For those of you that have DVBviewer, copy the info from the link below into a manual scan exactly the same as it appears on the right hand side of the screen at frequency 11428. The transmission is currently showing a HD loop of Hotel Babylon type aerial London city shots to music. Resolution is like BBC HD 1440 x 1088 16:9 25fps currently in stereo 384 Kbps 48.0 KHz and running at around 10.8 Mbit.

http://www.davidmurray.adsl24.co.uk/details.jpg

Gae :thumbsup:
 

Stephen Neal

Distinguished Member
:thumbsup:

I'm picking up the ITV HD stream in DVBViewer using the H.264 codec and AC3 audio filter. For those of you that have DVBviewer, copy the info from the link below into a manual scan exactly the same as it appears on the right hand side of the screen at frequency 11428. The transmission is currently showing a HD loop of Hotel Babylon type aerial London city shots to music. Resolution is like BBC HD 1440 x 1088 16:9 25fps currently in stereo 384 Kbps 48.0 KHz and running at around 10.8 Mbit.

http://www.davidmurray.adsl24.co.uk/details.jpg

Gae :thumbsup:
The aerial shots were what were used on the 6 month ITV HD terrestrial trial in London ISTR.
 

Goodoldbakes

Novice Member
ITV want as many viewers as possible - not as few viewers as possible.
Could have fooled me with all the rubbish they broadcast. The only things I have watched on ITV in the last 2 or 3 years is Wild At Heart and the odd European Cup game. I don't even bother checking the ITV listings anymore.

ITV HD? So what? Rubbish programmes are still rubbish programmes whether in HD or SD. :rolleyes:
 

Stephen Neal

Distinguished Member
Could have fooled me with all the rubbish they broadcast. The only things I have watched on ITV in the last 2 or 3 years is Wild At Heart and the odd European Cup game. I don't even bother checking the ITV listings anymore.

ITV HD? So what? Rubbish programmes are still rubbish programmes whether in HD or SD. :rolleyes:
Yep - in many ways Five HD would be a better move - as all their CSIs and other US imports are HD...

ITV HD will benefit sports fans I guess - with Euro 2008 and Champions League stuff appearing in HD. Similarly I guess some of their high-end drama (Lewis, Foyles War type stuff) may shift to HD?
 

MikeOfBeds

Novice Member
Lots of you seem to think ITV would not be so stupid as to ignore SkyHD.
However, they have a history of stupidity. Remember just 2 years ago when they only showed the World Cup on Cable TV. :mad:
 

Bachstrad

Novice Member
Lots of you seem to think ITV would not be so stupid as to ignore SkyHD.
However, they have a history of stupidity. Remember just 2 years ago when they only showed the World Cup on Cable TV. :mad:
True .... and they only came on to the Sky platform after their own digital offering failed IIRC! ;)

ATB

Max
 

Scapegoat

Well-known Member
Don't Sky still own a portion of ITV (though being challenged by Virginas anti-competitive)? If so you would imagine it would get shown on Sky.

As for Freesat v Sky - they are not in competition. Some people (my Parents) do not want Pay TV and are happy with the current Free View options.

But my Dad would upgrade to FreeSat for HD - i.e. Olympics, The Open, Wimbledon (and other sport) plus the big drama (Bleak House, Lewis etc).
 

Martin J.

Novice Member
The man in the street likes Freeview for greater choice and the ability to use current equipment (except for the receiver). The most popular objections to Sky are cost and the dislike of satellite dishes. Freesat needs a dish, and there are more free channels on the Sky platform, so it seems that Freesat's existence is fairly pointless.
 

mattclarkie

Novice Member
I paid £150 to get a new aerial so I could get freeview in my bedroom, and I barely get the basic channels, and there is nothing to watch. I think I would have been better paying for 15 months of additional multi-room sub.

Freesat has the only advantage of the HD channels, but the freesat HD channels are free on Sky HD, and they rarely have anything in HD apart from BBC HD which maybe provides me with 2hours a week to watch.

I would say to anyone that they are best either getting SD sky, or just buying the Sky HD box because I gather you get SkyOne HD without a sub, and you still get the freesat channels.
 

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