ITV digital & Sky1 pic quality

Discussion in 'Sky Digital TV Forum' started by Timh, Jul 18, 2001.

  1. Timh

    Timh
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    Has anyone else noticed the picture quality on Sky one since Ondigital changed it's name to itv digital, it now look's awful on my set, it seem's to leave a ghost image when a sceen changes, maybe it's because the bit rate is so low :(

    Tim
     
  2. Family Guy

    Family Guy
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    Did you restore your channels? Mines fine.
     
  3. markannis

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    I to have noticed that the picture quality on Sky1 is very poor just recently. Although I seem to remember it being a poor picure quality before OnDigital changed their name...
     
  4. johnson

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    Tim
    This is a known fault beleived to have resulted from itv digital increasing compression to allow room for more channels.
    Apparently itv digital are working on new decompression software to try to cure this.
    I for one would rather have good picture quality rather than more "junk" channels.
    Incedently the new software will be transmited to the boxes hopefully before 11 august.
    I have picked this info up from other forums were the quality ( or lack of ) has been discussed.
    Hope this helps
    Regards
    Simon
     
  5. Timh

    Timh
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    Cheers, I am not alone then, I'm sure we could all do with out bbc parliment and bbc knowledge, that must be about 3 meg's for these two, dump these, give the bitrate to Sky one, then you almost get mint yank show's. :D
     
  6. paiger

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    Or, dump Sky 1. That's a junk channel if there ever was one. What do you want to watch? Star Trek, Star Trek or Star Trek? Isn't there anything else on? Oh yeah, How about Voyager?..... Mind you, if you grew up watching childrens ITV then I guess you might like it. Personally, I think they should dump everything and give all the bandwidth to Shop.

    Aye

    S
     
  7. Timh

    Timh
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    Yes! more Startrek please, The new series "Enterprise" should be here this Autumn. :D
     
  8. kennydies

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  9. Timh

    Timh
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    Kenny, Yes but have you seen the Starship Troopers series that really rock's.

    I am a big trek fan, but do you find DS9 totally boring, or is it just me, Kira is especially boring, then again anything with Borgeon's in is boring, rock on Seven :D
     
  10. kennydies

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    Yes, you can buy the starship trooper series on DVD, keep meaning to buy it, but never get round to it.
    Kira, needed to be killed, not Dax.
    But what can you do?
     
  11. baccattack

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    I agree, picture quality on sky1 has gone right down hill, it's now as bad as British Eurosport and Sky Sports. I for one would much rather the increased the picture quality of there existing channels than add rubbish like the Wellbeing channel, 2 way tv, itv sport select etc. The main channels I watch appart from those that are available terresteraly are British Eurosport and Sky Sports 1, 2 and 3 and it is this that in my view have the worst picture quality- it's very annoying.

    Stephen

    P.S. I have a philips stb- does the make of this have any bearing.

    [ 27-07-2001: Message edited by: Stephen Bacchus ]
     
  12. baccattack

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    I've dragged this one up again because the picture quality now seems to have hit a new low point. I'm trying to watch the Premiership highlights on ITV 1 only the picture has to be among the worst I've ever seen. Anyway rather than just sit here and get mad I've finally decided to send an e-mail to ITV Digital on the subject of there poor picture quality (see below), perhaps if everyone else who felt like this did the same we could get some action on this.

    Cheers Stephen

    <br />"Dear ITV Digital,

    I am writing to complain about the sub-standard picture quality which currently affects your service. Having been a subscriber now for over 14 months the picture quality has never been as good as it is via my ordinary analogue reception, especially on Eurosport and all of the Sky Sports channels. One of the reasons for my subscription in the first place was so that I could get more sport, the other was to receive more anamorphic wide screen broadcasts. However since you re-branding to ITV Digital the picture quality has dropped even further. What is worse this seems to have affected the traditional channels available via analogue reception as well in particular.

    While writing this I am trying to watch the new Premiership highlights on ITV 1. However most of the time the picture is just a pixilated mess, this is exacerbated on close up shots which are practically unwatchable. Only on shots where there is no camera movement is the picture not affected by digital blocking. The analogue picture is of course much better but is not in wide screen.

    What I would like to know is when you intended to improve this current situation. I would much rather you get rid of what are in my view pointless channels, such as Shop, Wellbeing, Two Way TV, UK Style etc, and concentrate on using the available bandwidth you have to transmit the core sports, entertainment, and traditional analogue channels at the best possible quality.

    For you own information you may wish to know the equipment I am using to view your service just in case you think that this may be responsible for my poor pictures. My set to box is Philips DTX 6370 connected via scart sending the RIB output to my Panasonic TX 32PK2 television.

    Yours Sincerely,

    Stephen Bacchus<br />Customer No. (removed)"
     
  13. Timh

    Timh
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    I know where your coming from, I think we will have to put up with sub standard picture quality for now, or until they can improve the compression software, or then again when they improve the compression they will probably give you 24 hour gardening channel and none stop episodes of This is my moment <img src="tongue.gif" border="0"> the worse I have seen is on pop show's like Top of the pop's digital just cant handle flashing light's.
     
  14. johnson

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    I sent an E-mail about three weeks ago re;the bad picture.No reply

    Tim<br />whats the update on your KP-41? Any luck?<br />Simon
     
  15. Timh

    Timh
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    Simon, I never got your email <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> I heard from Sony on Friday, they need proof of purchase and an estimate for repair's. They never said they would cough up but would look into it.<br />So I need to find a dealer prepaired to do an estimate, might prove difficult, not all engineer's are keen on rear projection set's.<br />I talked to a guy who fixed my vcr yesterday, he said I had done the right thing, but commented that Sony would probably cover the cost of part's and I would cough up for Labour.<br />We shall see.

    [ 19-08-2001: Message edited by: Timh ]</p>
     
  16. johnson

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    Sorry Tim,the first part of my last message re the E-mail was to the last post,regarding mailing itv digital.<br />Let me know how you get on with the tv<br />Simon
     
  17. asimm

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    This is why I like this forum! Glad to hear that other people are having problems (not glad there are problems of course). I thought it was the 100 HZ on my tv that was causing the pixel mess and digital artefacts on the ITV Sport Channel, ITV Sport Select and the ITV Premiership show on Saturday (this one really surprised me - the ITV channel has always been so strong). Stephen - really interested to know if you get a reply as I am having no joy contacting ITV Digital.<br />Is this some kind of break in their service contract? Surely they have to transmit a watchable picture - Saturday bight's show was unwatchable on my TV and the Newcastle/Chelsea game was pretty bad.<br />Unable to go with anyone else - not allowed cable or a dish on the flat. My Nokia box is just as bad as the Pace. <br />Hope they sort this soon!
     
  18. baccattack

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    An update. Check out the quite outrageous response I have recieved from ITV Digital's customer services. Note the way they have completely ignored the points raised in my original e-mail to them (see earlier post above). Needless to say I have sent a reply back to them pointing this out.

    <br />"From: itvcustomersupport [email protected]&gt;<br />Reply-To: itvcustomersupport [email protected]&gt;<br />To: Stephen Bacchus &lt;[email protected]&gt;<br />Subject: Re: Picture Quality on ITV Digital (KMM132054C0KM)<br />Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:25:16 GMT+00:00

    Dear Mr Bacchus

    Thank you for your email of 18/08/2001.

    First, I apologise for any inconvenience you may have experienced with regard to your ITV Digital reception.

    I have checked your postcode on our coverage system, and unfortunately, you are still in an area of uncertain coverage. This means that it may<br />be possible for you to receive our services, yet we cannot guarantee this, nor can we tell you as to how good your reception would be.

    I do not have a date as to when coverage in your area will become more definite, although we aim to improve coverage as quickly as we can.

    I can confirm that we are constantly trying to improve our service and<br />we will inform all of our customers as soon as we have any further information.

    I apologise that I am unable to offer you a more positive response at this present time but hope that I have been able to provide you with the<br />necessary information.

    Yours sincerely

    (name removed)<br />Customer Relations"

    The reply I have sent to them in response to this is below

    "Dear ITV-Digital,

    I am extremely disappointed by your response to my earlier e-mail (see below), as you seem to have totally ignored the issue that I raised. The points I raised have nothing to do with the level of reception in my area. I can assure you that I enjoy a constant, uninterrupted reception to all of the channels available via your service. The problems I have experienced specifically relate to the poor picture quality provided by your service. As such I would be grateful if you could answer the points originally raised in my earlier e-mail.

    Thank you,

    Stephen Bacchus"
     
  19. Timh

    Timh
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    Stephen, It look's to me like you got one of those standard reply message's which was probably written about 2 year's ago. Please Keep us updated. <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
     
  20. baccattack

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    I've recieved another answer, does anyone else agree with me that what they have written is a complete load of ********? I'd be interested to hear what other subscribers think. Perhaps if I threatened to cancel my subscribtion they'd take my concerns more seriously.

    "Dear Mr Bacchus

    Thank you for your email of 22/08/2001.

    I apologise that you were not happy with my previous response and felt that I did not address the issues you raised.

    However, the symptoms you have described are typical of a signal problem and as you are in an area of predicted uncertain coverage we can not <br />guarantee the channels or the picture quality that you will receive.

    Also with uncertain coverage the signal can deteriorate over time and that is why we can not offer a standard aerial upgrade to customers who <br />are predicted to receive this coverage.

    If you feel that the reception difficulties you are experiencing are not due to your coverage area I would advise that you contact a local <br />engineer who will be able to look into the matter further for you.

    With regard to wide-screen broadcasts, our channels are provided by a wide range of companies and we broadcast these channels in the format in which they are provided to us.

    As the number of subscribers using wide-screen televisions is increasing, a greater proportion of the our programmes will be shown in <br />the wide-screen format.

    I can confirm that we are constantly trying to improve our service and provide more of the channels that our customers want. However, we have to consider all customers when making this decision. I can assure you as soon as we have further information regarding new services or any <br />changes that we make we will inform you imediately.

    I apologise that I am unable to offer a more positive response on this occasion. If you need any further assistance please do not hesitate to <br />contact me.

    Yours sincerely

    (name removed)<br />Customer Relations"
     
  21. asimm

    asimm
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    I agree. They are not dealing with the main point - to accomodate extra channels they are broadcasting a lower quality picture. <br />I think tha the quality has improved over the last few days but it is still not up to pre ITV Digital standards.
     
  22. Timh

    Timh
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    Stephen, I think they are missing the point somewhere, I guess they are not that technically minded.<br />You either get a digital picture or you dont, a weak signal would cause breakup of the picture, but woudnt actually effect the picture quality.<br />At the end of the day it's a simple equation.<br />Low bitrate = digital artifact's = crap picture quality.

    Have you tried watching Formula one on ITV1 it's unwatchable, I alway's turn over to analogue for motor sport.
     
  23. johnson

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    Same here Tim.If watching sport I'll watch analogue where possible.<br />I think the person Stephen is corresponding with is either missinformed,ignorant or just plainly doesn't want to admit the truth.<br />I think Stephen was right to point out the picture quality has improved slightly in the last week,but it's still poor compared to Sky digital.<br />My brother has both systems and switching between the two shows up a big difference when watching fast moving action.<br />Simon
     
  24. ISCM

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    Tim. You are wrong. A weak signal CAN cause more artifacts before the signal breaks up compleatly. It is therefore important that the signal quality is as good as you can get. a strong signal does not always give good quality but it usualy helps.
     
  25. johnson

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    I think you're correct on the point of break-up,you can get a mosaic type of effect,but in the cases stated above the received signals are good and the digital squares/artifacts are more obvious on faster moving images.All pointing to insufficient bandwidth/too much compression.<br />Simon
     
  26. baccattack

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    As an intresting aside, in this weeks Radio Times in there regular colum on digital tv, Dr Digital responds to the many people who have written in bemoaning the picture quality on digital tv. In his response he acknowleges the trade off between picture quality and more choice and states that from his various conversations with those behind the various digital platforms there now seems to be an acceptance that early digital publicity was misleading in stressing its audio visual superiority, and that a better strategy in future would be to push digital's increased choice and interactivity.

    Stephen.
     
  27. Matt F

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    Just like to add my comments. I receive cable digital TV via Telewest and I must say that the picture quality of the matches on ITV's Premiership highlights is shocking - horrible digital/mosaic effects all over the place (less noticeable when the camera is still).

    Given that my signal comes via a cable, this would seem to prove that ITV's argument about being in a poor reception area is utter bo**ocks - I get a perfect signal but what I'm being sent is low bit-rate rubbish - MOTD on BBC last season was perfect in this respect.

    One thing I did notice with the ITV highlighs is that whilst the match footage itself was poor, the pictures from the studio weren't anywhere near as bad (although a little soft) - could it be that the cameras at the games are recording at a low bit-rate for some reason or other?

    Matt.
     
  28. baccattack

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    Thanks for that Matt, very interesting. As for MOTD on BBC1 last year, that was fine in terms of picture quality. The BBC have always seemed to hold the edge in terms of picture quality when it comes to broadcasting football via digital services. However even last seasons Champions League on ITV was ok. It's just since the re-branding to ITV Digital, with the addition of several new channels, that the picture quality has plummeted.

    Stephen.
     
  29. johnson

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    Regarding pictures from the studio,do you mean when they're chatting?.If so surely thats because there's very little camera movement and the compression used is enough to satisfy a slow ornon-updating picture?<br />I could be wrong.<br />Simon
     
  30. Timh

    Timh
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    Simon, I would have to agree with you on that one, I alway's find with digital broadcast's that show any close up's of faces the picture can look totally amazing, and as soon as you get fast motion say cameras panning fast digital tv cant just hack it compared to analogue.<br />Hers my top three examples of bad digital pictures.

    1, Formula 1<br />2, Football (not bothered, never watch it)<br />3, Jungle sceen's or forest's (to much detail for digital to cope with.

    can you think of anymore?
     

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