Bargain iTunes 4K Movies

Discussion in '4K Ultra HD Blu-rays' started by AT06, Sep 15, 2017.


    1. AT06

      AT06
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      Hi all,

      Apple has now started selling 4K movies with HDR and Dolby Vision on iTunes ahead of the 4K Apple TV release.

      Ghost in the Shell - £13.99
      War Dogs - £7.99
      Jack Reacher: Never Go Back - £7.99
      Star Trek Beyond - £7.99
      Kong: Skull Island - £13.99
      Sully - £9.99
      Alien: Covenant - £9.99

      And more.....
       
    2. Goooner

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      Whether you like streaming or not, you can't deny those are some pretty good prices for 4K movies.

      I remember looking on Amazon Video last year when I first got my 4K tv, thought I'd try a film or two, right up until I saw the prices, don't think there was anything under £20+.
       
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    3. samdavies

      samdavies
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      Yeah you won't catch me paying for a digital copy of anything, but vs the competition that's not bad value tbh.

      This does mean it offers a whole host of potential 4k hdr films to pirates though. Should adequately fuel the fire until uhd disc copies are eventually cracked.
       
    4. Goooner

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      Could be quite handy for the odd rental on films you aren't sure about. Would be nice if we started getting more UV codes that could be used on iTunes and hopefully in 4K.

      I've got a few movies on iTunes, mainly only stuff that I've picked up really cheap, handy for when I'm too lazy to go and hunt through my thousand or so DVD/BD/4K disc collection, that started so well organised, but quickly all pretence of organisation went out the window, so finding exactly what I want, when I get the urge to watch it in a timely manner, is a lot easier said than done :laugh:

      Hopefully the few movies I have got will be among those upgraded for free to 4K.

      Now, who do I need to see about getting my BDs upgraded to 4K for free?:rotfl::rotfl:
       
    5. NatTheGooner

      NatTheGooner
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      How did you find these - can you search for 4k?
      Just looked at Sully on iTunes but it just says HD
       
    6. IGC

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      The word "bargain" and "Apple/iTunes/iTube/iDildo/iPhone" etc can never be in the same sentence and not be stupid and anyway this forum is about pressed discs so best sticking to another section (I see there's the Dumbest Thread Ever Posted on the Internet™ thread "Apple iTunes 4K kills 4K Blu-ray" or something on the Blu-ray & DVD section too (now removed?)).

      Yeah, right, I'll just get my fanboi cheque book direct debit set up.

      The only memory you have of streaming is the direct debit.

      Paid for digital streaming into your head through your television, Philip K. Dick would be transporting in his grave :D


      Beam me up, Scotty, I'm a troglodyte.
       
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    7. vader100

      vader100
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      They ARE good prices, about right for the quality you will get. Good news is the physical media may have to drop prices to compete....maybe.
       
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    8. NatTheGooner

      NatTheGooner
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      4K Apple TV owners thread
       
    9. Sloppy Bob

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      Prices ae decent but for me it still doesn't replace a physical disc for real quality video and audio.

      In fact I'd be curious to see how it stands up to a ripped bluray as there's far more to quality than resolution.
      Still until you can rip a UHD disc, if they're better downloads than 1080p Bluray then it might be the best you can get.

      Does anyone know yet if it can passthrough HD Audio, Atmos etc as it might be the first streamer Apple has made that's worth thinking about.
       
    10. dmk1198

      dmk1198
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      Do UK films in 4k differ from USA? They have loads! I've only got star trek so not worth it yet but might keep those codes instead of binning them lol
       
    11. Chester

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      Has anyone seen any confirmation that there will be 4K rentals on iTunes? So far I've taken it for granted that there will be. The other thing to note here is that not all films on iTunes are available to rent. San Andreas isn't for example.

      I will probably upgrade as I generally like the interface, and LG does some crazy things with streaming like increasing the bandwidth/quality quite late into the content, and again after a transport operation like rewind/fast forward. The Sony X800 does a far better job, and support HDR on YouTube. So it will be interesting to see what app support there is for 4K/HDR (and how can they forget to mention WCG, probably the most important part of the picture improvements in my opinion) on the ATV 4K.

      @Goooner I might be missing something, but I don't believe I've seen an iTunes compatible digital code in a very long time (included with Blu-rays that is). Do you know which studios support it still? Would be good to know, especially as UV seems to be getting flushed down the toilet!
       
    12. Goooner

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      I had one recently (as in the last month/6 weeks) on a 4K disc, can't for the life of me remember what it was though :)

      May have been one of the recent 4K Apes releases?

      I'll see if I can find it, if I get the chance. It stuck in my mind at the time, simply because it was the only one I'd seen that was iTunes compatible for years. Think it might even have said somewhere on the leaflet or the small print on the back of the box "watch anywhere. Even iTunes" or something.

      Maybe with the Flixter thing in the US now, iTunes may get a look in again?

      Edit: just checked, it was Logan.
       
      Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
    13. Dan201

      Dan201
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      I've ordered a new one. If I can't see a difference on my 75" TV then Ill sell my UHD disks and go with Apple.
       
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    14. Chester

      Chester
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      Wow! Well I do see how large disc collections can present storage problems. I'm thinking of having another clear-out; can't watch them all! And there's many I won't watch again. Surely there would be some cost to this transition though, and a lot of dependency on your Internet connection. If you're seriously into films, surely it's good to have some resilience to an outage here?

      The other thing that's weird is watching older FHD blu-rays agiainst newer ones. You can definitely tell that newer technology and better production processing workflow has benefited a single format. Same thing happened to DVD. So you may find an iTunes 4K stream is better than some blu-rays at some point in the future.

      If only UV and Apple could work something out...
       
    15. Mamaw

      Mamaw
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      I totally plan to use the new Apple TV for 4k hdr movie streaming.
      I have already a little library of hd iTunes movies and some are going to be updated in 4k for free. I know this is not uhd Blu-ray quality but I am ok with that.
      The only concern I have with the new Apple TV is the support for 4k YouTube video.
      I don't see any mention of VP9 decoding...
       
    16. raz77

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      Goodfellas remastered 4k with Dolby vision £5.99 on iTunes, now that's a good price
       
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    17. yandybox

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      Ghost in the shell had an itunes code recently, that Star Trek Beyond and The Savages are the only iTunes codes I have that worked. So that's Paramount and Universal.




      I don't see why some people are so against this, it won't be comparable to UHD, obviously, but it offers cheaper alternatives and adds Dolby Vision to titles which never had that option on the disc. I don't see how they both can't exist. You don't like, you don't buy.
       
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    18. AidenL

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      I can't see any 4k on iTunes either.
       
    19. MikeTVMikeTV

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      Hacksaw ridge
      Logan
      Ghost in the shell
      Fantastic Beasts

      All say iTunes on the digital codes insert, most others don't say either way, only my Universal ones say iTunes not included.
       
    20. smackos

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      Not likely to pass through HD audio at all. (lets face it, it isn't aimed at that market.)

      As for quality. Look, ultimately it's going to be a mixed bag in some ways compared to a standard blu-ray. We are looking at:

      Lossy audio vs lossless HD audio on the BD.

      4K resolution vs 1080p on BD.

      HDR and Dolby Vision BT2020 vs rec709 SDR.

      Slightly higher bitrate average equivalent on BD. (Have had something like 600 movies on server without HD audio and those averaged around 26Gb.) The iTunes 4K encodes are going to be around 14Gb for a 2 hour movie, so given the quoted better compression saving of 40% that h.265 has over h.264 (Netflix and a few others have given that in independent tests performed) then we are looking roughly at a 23Gb encode equivalent.

      The audio won't be as good full stop. Even taking HD audio out of the equation, then the "core" tracks on a BD will be higher bitrate than likely on iTunes. (Though Dolby Digital Plus 7.1 is perfectly capable of 6Mb bitrate for Audio as well as Dolby Atmos, iTunes aren't likely to push those figures at all.)

      As for video then in terms of sheer visual fidelity then the 4K encodes will look slightly sharper, will have better contrast and blacks levels, better shadow detail, more natural and fuller colouration. But conversely it will probably have slightly more banding than the BD as well as slightly more macro blocking in High intensity scenes.

      Essentially for those of this forum that really value high quality audio then they'll be sticking with their BD/UHD disc collection. For those that are happy with just watching a pretty decent image on screen, possibly are using a soundbar or tv speakers etc, then they'll be fine with iTunes 4K. It all depends on what each persons needs for audio/video/budget are, everybody is different. It's all well and good everybody flag waving the "need" for £25 UHD discs, but for regular film buyers it's only the minority that can really afford to do so.
       
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      Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
    21. hippo99

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      I'm pretty sure Fantastic Beasts is just a UV code only (which will play back on the Flixster App), not an iTunes code so wouldn't be added to your iTunes library.
      Needs to have the 'Watch on iTunes' logo to be redeemable on iTunes.
      IMG_1819.JPG
       
      Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
    22. BMox81

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      For me personally, I made the call that I was going to cut back on the majority of my disc buying, but having a US iTunes account and their cheap codes has meant I've amassed a decent digital collection of which a chunk will get a UHD/4K upgrade.

      I know people frown on digital and I'm fully aware that disc has it beat, but I like the convenience and ease that I can get a film up and running in next to no time and can still have a good selection of titles to watch.
       
    23. Sloppy Bob

      Sloppy Bob
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      You can get that by ripping your own discs. It's not for everyone but it's not hard to do if you want the quality.
       
    24. smackos

      smackos
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      Having had a server setup over Plex, Kodi and iTunes, I can safely say that what you gain in convenience once everything is on there is lost with all the work you have to constantly put in beforehand.

      Apple TV way.
      Click home button.
      Click Siri button.
      Say "Sucker Punch".
      Picture loads up on screen with a buy now button. Click and watch film.

      Server setup way.
      Browse Amazon and buy film.
      When film turns up the next day or two back it up. Making sure you've unchecked the irrelevant audio laungage stuff you don't want.
      Once that's done then you may want to shrink that down. In which case you'll want a half decent pc to shrink it with. You load up the film, check that it's done the right resolution, chosen the right audio tracks, checked that it's added what subtitle tracks you think it'll need. Then wait multiple hours to shrink it.
      Add that into your Plex library, making sure to match it with the correct title.

      At that point then you are at the same stage as on iTunes.

      Click home screen.
      Load up Plex.
      Find movie.
      Click play.


      Oops. You've accidentally copied the maximum movie mode, and you've got Zack Snyder talking away on screen instead of the opening credits. And... go back and do all that again. :facepalm:

      Or it could be Men in Black, and you start watching to find out that you've got some weird computer pop 2nd screen stuff come on 10 minutes into the movie that you didn't know was hard coded into one of the video files, and you needed to do another one instead.

      Or it could any one of a number of lionsgate titles where you have literally hundreds of near identical video track files to choose from, but only one plays the films chapters in the right order. So you have to search around on Google until you find it.

      Or it could be Avengers Age of Ultron where you think you've done it right first time, until you realise that 20 minutes in it hasn't picked up all the subtitle tracks, so Black Widow is mumbling away in Russian and you haven't a clue what she's saying. Same can be said for the likes of Avatar, or even films you don't really think about as having a "foreign language" like the Star Trek movies.

      Unfortunately that list could go on and on with stuff like that I've had over the years.. :D

      That's without factoring in all the HDD costs involved just to keep it running.
       
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    25. BMox81

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      Taken on board, but that means spending extra on hard drives and the like. I'm at the point where I don't want to have to spend the extra time doing that now and im happy with the quality that the iTunes movies provide (and will be increased with their UHD offerings). If I want the better quality (like for Marvel/Star Wars/Harry Potter), then I'll buy the discs.
       
    26. hippo99

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      I don't have the problems ripping that you seem to have. I think it must be you :laugh:
       
    27. Chester

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      You're right yes, it gives people a choice. I certainly can't afford to buy all the films I want to see on FHD BD, let alone 4K UHD BD! I believe having access to decent content is better than fewer titles albeit at higher quality; I'll reserve the latter for my favourite films.

      And that's why I was asking about the rentals. There's far too many films out there that I'd love to see that I haven't. The guys on the podcast talk about shrink wrapped films they've had laying around for months or even years. The negative part of that aspect is they've already paid for them. So for a majority of stuff a view once rental is fine, and if I don't get to see all of the detail the director intended, well as long as I'm not losing out on the story or visual detail that subtracts from the film (not sure how I'd know to be honest!) then that's absolutely fine. And streamed stuff that I own on disc isn't a million miles away in detail that I can see, but there is a marked difference for sure.

      Same for sound. Have you ever done a blind test for audio tracks? I can very quickly determine a standard DD track. It's edgy and loses amplitude resolution. Vocals can sound coarse and drums sound like the batter heads have gone soft. Busy soundtracks also get muddled easily. But flip this to a really good DTS-core soundtrack, compare it to DTS-HD MA, I sometimes struggle to hear the difference. Comparing DD and DD-TrueHD, yes of course, but does a DD+ soundtrack subtract that much from a film? I think it's good enough, in the context of having access to more content.

      So to summarise, I'm happy to sacrifice a little detail that I probably can't perceive so well anyway, or I'd only really notice it's missing in side-by-side testing, and there are limits here because iTunes rentals are a little toppy in price IMO. And for me I'll gladly pick-up a 4K UHD BD for favourite films and those which are visual and/or audio masterpieces.


      Changing the subject, for those ripping BDs with all that faf as described, or any part of it, weigh up the effort expended in loading different discs against the effort (and additional costs) of ripping them all. Is it really worth it?! I get it and do it for music (massively advantageous for multi-room of course), but never really seen any benefits for films.
       
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    28. smackos

      smackos
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      Tell me about it. :D There's always a few that do that sort of thing, even little ones like The pixar films that have multiple video segments that match up with a language track, so if you rip the wrong bit then you'll get some French writing on screen during Wall-E etc. In the end what made me think why am I bothering, was when drives failed twice in quick succession. It was unlucky, but it made me sit up and think. Over the course of the next 15-20 years, how much money am I going to have to spend just maintaining the server, whilst continuing to expand it at the rate I was buying. My brother has gone down that road and just spent out £2500 on a NAS and HDD's, crazy money when that could go towards more titles themselves.
       
    29. Sloppy Bob

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      To me it's worth it. It's certainly not as big a faff for me as smackos makes out.

      I have well over 1000 films (Bluray and DVD for older movies that haven't had a BD release) and many complete TV shows all ripped to a NAS. It's all available through the 3 screens I have in the house at the flick of a couple of buttons. There's no faffing about with finding the disc or searching for a movie by looking through piles of covers, there are no issues with storing the discs on a bunch of untidy shelves.
      If you have kids there's no issue with the discs getting lost or scratched up and as to the cost I won't deny it can get a bit expensive with a server or NAS plus HDD's but it's a small cost compared to what I spent on the actual discs themselves in the first place.

      I get streaming, I use Netflix and Amazon and enjoy using the service, I don't rent but I can see it's a good option with a movie you're unsure of or that you know you'll watch once, but paying to buy a digital copy with inferior audio and video if you have a good AV system. It's not for me.
       
    30. toddy28

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      I will be very happy to get 4k rentals at a good price , I will happily pay £4.49 for a uhd rental but not £8 like some places , really hope this will level off the prices for uhd [emoji1303]
       

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