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its not simulation,its diving!

SILVERBACK

Active Member
just watching the chelsea V barca game and listening to andy gray,after the messi tackle by del horno he`s been banging on about "simulation" now while my darker half is happy to see theatricals getting a chelsea player sent off (i bet pepe is made up) i think its a sorry state of affairs when we have to sugarcoat a word like CHEAT or to a lesser extent diver.football is getting more an more disshonest the more i watch.no wonder the rugby boys dont watch football that much lol.
 

John

Moderator
I didn't see much of the challenge , but what I did see was Del Horno not paying much attention to the ball when his challenge went in .
Easy way to solve the diving problem , an enforced recovery period of 10 minutes off the pitch with the physio . That would sort it out quicker than dishing out red and yellow cards . The physio would only come on the pitch to make sure the player could get safely to the touch line . All treatment (magic sponge etc ) could be administered then .

John
 

Steven

Senior Moderator
Del Horno was clumsy and certainly didn't get much of the ball.....some refs only give yellows. This one gave a red. It wasn't a dive from Messi though

The solution to cheating I reckon is retrospective action...yes Fifa/Blatter Corp. would have to change their own rules...but I reckon a hardline one match ban where cheating leads to an advantage e.g. penalty or sending off

P.S. Great match Chelski vs Barca :smashin:
 

scrapbook

Distinguished Member
Chelsea seem to be have been over ambitious in the second half.

I would have expected them to string four across the back and four across in midfield and hang on to what they had.
 

doctorjuggles

Active Member
I'd also like to point out here that Del Horno did his fair share of rolling around to try and avoid punishment.
I hate diving as much as the next man, it's terrible, but to suggest Messi was the only one using theatricals to his own end is a little biased, because what's the difference between acting to get someone sent off, or acting to prevent yourself from being sent off? Cheating is cheating, I don't care what colour shirts they're wearing.

Andy Gray really annoys me too, because he makes his mind up initially on something (fair enough) but then when the evidence is presented in front of him, he'll stick to his story regardless of what the replay is telling him. Where most commentators would say "ah, that angle tells a different story" or something, Gray blindly refuses to admit he's ever read it wrong.
I'm thinking specifically of the Chelsea handball here, but there are countless other examples. He's not my favourite commentator anyway, but considering the standard of commentary around at the moment, he's be alright if he'd just learn that being occasionally wrong in a snap decision doesn't make him a bad pundit.

And that ref was terrible. He seemed to give free-kicks according to who he liked most at the time, rather than according to, you know, actual fouls and the like.
 

Nebby

Active Member
Hats off to Jose, I don't know how he does it...

Just how on earth does he keep a straight face when damning Messi in his post match interviews?

As was pointed out on the radio earlier tonight, it's a real case of 'pot, kettle, black' with this guy, after the way is Porto team would collapse to the ground at the slightest contact.

And it looks like it's catching at Chelski too, with Robben and Joe Cole the leading exponents.

Still, cracking game - couldn't believe just how good some of the Barca players were - their close control on such a poor surface was amazing.
 

KevD

Distinguished Member
LFC_SL said:
It wasn't a dive from Messi though
Your right, it wasn't a dive, most people who be knocked down in that situation. The difference, however, is most would get right back up.
I give Messi 10/10 for the performance on the floor :devil:
Whatever I think of him rolling on the floor like a little girl, he is some player :thumbsup:
 

dc007

Active Member
Del Horno's foul was bookable.... not a straight red, IMHO.

But then I feel he already should have been booked for catching Messi on the knee with his studs a few minutes earlier.

So, justice was done in the end, IMO.

Messi acted - but so does just about everyone nowadays.

Poetic justice for the Robben/Liverpool goalie incident of a few weeks ago... ?
 

Steve T

Active Member
I find the whole thing very annoying. Del Horno - rolling around pretending to be injured becuase he knew a card was coming, and Messi legitimately hitting the ground but then taking a sneaky peak at the ref before performing his dying fly impression.

With all the talent on both sides it's pathetic, but sadly is widespread in the game. You get kids seeing these "world class" players acting in this way, so what do they do when they play at school etc etc.

I'm also an advocate of Johnscarlet's approach. If a player is injured on the field to the extent that play is stopped or a physio is called on; he needs to be removed from the field for a minimum 5 (maybe even 10 minutes). Then you only get players rolling around if they are really injured, and should stop a lot of this. In fact, when you are really injured you rarely roll around anyway - look at Alan Smith (and I do feel for the guy, and hope he makes a full recovery)
 

HMHB

Distinguished Member
I'm all for retrospective action. If they see a player cheating by video review then slap a 3 match ban on as a minimum. That will hopefully soon stop them from doing it.
 

DJT75

Distinguished Member
JohnG said:
I'm all for retrospective action. If they see a player cheating by video review then slap a 3 match ban on as a minimum. That will hopefully soon stop them from doing it.

Couldn't agree more, to me that is the only way to curb this...The only thing is, will it stop this when a dive results in a winning penalty? 3pts or qualification through to the next round is worth a 3 game ban to some teams/players...
 

booyaka

Moderator
Steve T said:
I find the whole thing very annoying. Del Horno - rolling around pretending to be injured becuase he knew a card was coming, and Messi legitimately hitting the ground but then taking a sneaky peak at the ref before performing his dying fly impression.

With all the talent on both sides it's pathetic, but sadly is widespread in the game. You get kids seeing these "world class" players acting in this way, so what do they do when they play at school etc etc.

I'm also an advocate of Johnscarlet's approach. If a player is injured on the field to the extent that play is stopped or a physio is called on; he needs to be removed from the field for a minimum 5 (maybe even 10 minutes). Then you only get players rolling around if they are really injured, and should stop a lot of this. In fact, when you are really injured you rarely roll around anyway - look at Alan Smith (and I do feel for the guy, and hope he makes a full recovery)

Must admit that the above post sums up my views also.

Del Horno was not innocent party completely in this. He knows a card is coming and does his best to look innocent (yellow card was enough however) Messi did also roll around a bit too.

Did anyone see that little :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: Reyes the other night in the Arsenal game. Gets injured in a tackle and ends up off the pitch, then rolls back on the pitch and expects Mardid to put the ball out of play so that he can get medical attention!!!! That is Cheating and no two ways about it!!!
 

HMHB

Distinguished Member
Very true, they could have won a penalty or got a vital player sent off, so maybe a 10 match ban would be more of a deterrent ? I can't see the agreeing to video evidence during the game, so unfortunately it has to be afterwards.
 

2010

Active Member
I am a biased Chelsea fan (I'll admit it) but I feel the ref completely ruined the match last night.

Why are important games allowed to be referee'd by officials from relatively low quality leagues, its ridiculous, they are not used to dealing with high pressure games week in week out.

It will happen in the world cup (like it always does) & usually at the expense of us English :thumbsdow
 
I'll nail my colours to the flag first - I don't like Chelsea or Murinho and I am proud to support LFC.

I felt that last night, Chelsea got their just desserts. To hear The Chosen One going on about cheating makes me laugh - look at the state of the pitch. All that money available, but no pitch relaid????

Robben's theatricals getting Reina sent off????

Chelsea players hand-balling & shirt-pulling throughout the Liverpool match too.

The more Murinho speaks, the less I like him. Initially I thought he was a breath of fresh air, but over time, I have developed a lower opinion of him than I have of Alex Ferguson!

If you employ "gamesmanship" yourself, then don't moan when others do it to you - especially when they do it better!

:lesson:
 

Nebby

Active Member
I am a biased Chelsea fan (I'll admit it) but I feel the ref completely ruined the match last night.

Why are important games allowed to be referee'd by officials from relatively low quality leagues, its ridiculous, they are not used to dealing with high pressure games week in week out.

It will happen in the world cup (like it always does) & usually at the expense of us English


I assume from your comments that you think the ref was weak because of the sending off?

I thought the ref handled the game pretty well - if anything, he let a few things go and could easily have awarded two penalties for Barca. The handball against Gerami (I think it was him) would have been harsh but we've all seen those given before, but Terry was very lucky when he flattened Messi in the second half. In fact, if you look at the replays of that second incident you can clearly see the ref (whose view was partialy obscured don't forget) bring his whistle to his lips before looking across to the linesman - he didn't flag, so no penalty was awarded. That's sensible refereeing in anyone's book!

As for the sending off - if Del Horno didn't make such a mess of things in the first place, the incident would have been avoided. Yes, both players were guilty of overacting - Messi looked towards the ref after he was 'tackled' and then rolled about a bit, but then so did Del Horno as he knew he was in trouble. Del Horno was getting skinned by Messi from the start of the match, and had just raked his studs down Messi's thigh and gotten away without getting booked. You can blame Del Horno for losing it, you can blame Robben for not offering much in the way of protection to his fullback, but you can't blame the ref - who unlike Andy Gray only gets one look at it.

Looks like the second leg is gonna be a cracker - can't wait!
 

po_man

Active Member
Steve T said:
I'm also an advocate of Johnscarlet's approach. If a player is injured on the field to the extent that play is stopped or a physio is called on; he needs to be removed from the field for a minimum 5 (maybe even 10 minutes). Then you only get players rolling around if they are really injured, and should stop a lot of this. In fact, when you are really injured you rarely roll around anyway - look at Alan Smith (and I do feel for the guy, and hope he makes a full recovery)
Personally, i think this is a crazy suggestion. Okay, we all know that there's a lot of play acting going on at the moment but surely if a player is truly injured, how can it be fair to penalise a "genuinely" injured player by keeping them off the pitch for 5-10 mins after a tackle when clearly they are ready to get back on the field of play - even if it is at 70%-80% capacity for about 5 mins? All advantage would go to the "offending team" which would surely be wrong.
Frankly, i don't have the answers but this suggestion is just plain crazy!
 

John

Moderator
"Genuinely" injured players don't come back on the pitch .
You only have to look at Rugby , to see the sort of contact they have and can continue to play . The cheating needs to be stamped on . Fifa , Wafa ;) and the FA need to have the authority to look at video tape and to retrospectivly ban cheats . I know it cant be implemented at all levels , but if you start at the top , improved behaviour will filter down to grass roots , the same way bad behaviour has . You only have to see the "Extras from Platoon" segment on SoccerAM to realise how obvious the cheating is in a replay as opposed to in real time for the refs .

In saying that , how often does a team of ten men galvanise to get a result :rolleyes:
John
 

KevD

Distinguished Member
Just reading the Mirrors reports of the match. Oliver Holt was crediting Robben wish impressive tracking back just before the red card. I personally am of the thought that was the most stupid play I have seen :eek: and if he had just cleared the ball then there would have been no Red Card. I dont know if he thought the ball was going to run out but with a player like Messi threatning to get the Ball in your half, just play the percentages (as Mr Hansen would say!) :)
 

po_man

Active Member
johnscarlet said:
"Genuinely" injured players don't come back on the pitch .
You only have to look at Rugby , to see the sort of contact they have and can continue to play . The cheating needs to be stamped on . Fifa , Wafa ;) and the FA need to have the authority to look at video tape and to retrospectivly ban cheats . I know it cant be implemented at all levels , but if you start at the top , improved behaviour will filter down to grass roots , the same way bad behaviour has . You only have to see the "Extras from Platoon" segment on SoccerAM to realise how obvious the cheating is in a replay as opposed to in real time for the refs .

In saying that , how often does a team of ten men galvanise to get a result :rolleyes:
John
I don't think that this is strictly true ... a player can take a knock and go down, needing treatment. They can get the treatment and then continue the game by trying to run it off. Injured players DO come back on!!
I think the best way to combat it (and you've touched on it) is with the introduction FIFA and UEFA viewing video tapes. If there are blatant incidents, then they should have the power to impose bans - i think this would really deter this kind of behaviour.
If i had my way, i'd stick a 3 match ban on Arjen Robben for his incredible theatrics at the Liverpool / Chelsea match.
 
D

Deleted member 51156

Guest
Im an unbiased leeds fan and the ref was definatly giving decisions to barca ,this kind of reffing happens at local amateur level ,so top level pro games are going to be even worse .

Anders frisk never reffed again after the fiasco last time.

What would be nice ,is to see a game between these 2 sides with eleven men each,andy gray noted 9 men had been sent off this season playing barca .

Its a joke ,anybody who doesn't think football isn't corrupt is quite obviously blind.
 

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