• New Patreon Tier and Early Access Content available. If you would like to support AVForums, we now have a new Patreon Tier which gives you access to selected news, reviews and articles before they are available to the public. Read more.

It's not just the banks stealing from us

MikeTV

Distinguished Member
"Millions of savers are being misled by City fund managers about hidden fees that can almost halve the value of their pensions, a year-long study has found."

"Nine in 10 of the country's biggest pension fund managers fail to warn people about the levies, which typically wipe more than £100,000 from the value of a middle-class worker's pension."

"The report said pension charges accounted for up to 40 per cent of typical retirement savings."

Fees that can halve the value of your pension - Telegraph
 

karkus30

Banned
MikeTV said:
"Millions of savers are being misled by City fund managers about hidden fees that can almost halve the value of their pensions, a year-long study has found."

"Nine in 10 of the country’s biggest pension fund managers fail to warn people about the levies, which typically wipe more than £100,000 from the value of a middle-class worker’s pension."

"The report said pension charges accounted for up to 40 per cent of typical retirement savings."

Fees that can halve the value of your pension - Telegraph

I knew that years ago, I quit my company pension scheme after realising I was really paying for a Gamblers lifestyle and one who was playing in a rigged market place and was not very good at it. I got rid of my badly performing endowment mortgage at the same time ( I am really glad I did that when I did, hurt to swap to a standard mortgage but I would have been in the crap now ).
 

MikeTV

Distinguished Member
Yes, the Telegraph have been campaigning about it for years too (and all respect to them for doing so). I feel so sorry for anyone that was missold endowment mortgages back in the day. It's people's life savings they are stealing. More City cesspits.
 

la gran siete

Distinguished Member
Yes, the Telegraph have been campaigning about it for years too (and all respect to them for doing so). I feel so sorry for anyone that was missold endowment mortgages back in the day. It's people's life savings they are stealing. More City cesspits.

i was missold not one but two back in the eighties plus a useless pension so i am not entirely enamoured myself of the whole industry.I was lucky, though, as the sums borrowed werent huge so we were able to take out a repayment mortgage which was paid off two years ago.The endowments became, laughingly, "savings" policies .I say laughingly because the first one fell short of its target by about 30%, 3 years after it stopped paying ANY bonuses whilst the other won't mature for another 3 years but is paying double figure bonuses so will get nowhere near its target.One wonders what the managers of theses funds do to earn their crust. Play tiddlywinks:rolleyes:
 

sidicks

Banned
la gran siete said:
i was missold not one but two back in the eighties plus a useless pension so i am not entirely enamoured myself of the whole industry.I was lucky, though, as the sums borrowed werent huge so we were able to take out a repayment mortgage which was paid off two years ago.The endowments became, laughingly, "savings" policies .I say laughingly because the first one fell short of its target by about 30%, 3 years after it stopped paying ANY bonuses whilst the other won't mature for another 3 years but is paying double figure bonuses so will get nowhere near its target.One wonders what the managers of theses funds do to earn their crust. Play tiddlywinks:rolleyes:

I wonder if it might be possible to have a sensible discussion where we differentiate between the 3 key components of these types of financial services product:
The advisor (tied agent or IFA)
The Wrapper (product)
The underlying investment strategy / performance
(guaranteed versus risky)

???
 

karkus30

Banned
When I took out the company pension the advisor asked what level of risk I was prepared to take. He was taken aback when I said none. Later on, one by one we dropped out. I rejoined the company in 2009 and again I had an advisor trying to sell me on the idea, by that time I knew how things worked and I just laughed and politely told hin to sling his hook.
 

la gran siete

Distinguished Member
I wonder if it might be possible to have a sensible discussion where we differentiate between the 3 key components of these types of financial services product:
The advisor (tied agent or IFA)
The Wrapper (product)
The underlying investment strategy / performance
(guaranteed versus risky)

???
go ahead be my guest but i'll say one thing .I now believe its imperative that kids are taught finance at a suitable age so they can make informed choices so they stand a far less chance of getting burned later in life.Gone are the days when a bank manager or insurance person could be trusted to recommend one a product which would , in his candid view , be to ones own best interest.Neo liberalism has seen to that:thumbsdow
 
D

Deleted member 297713

Guest
Gone are the days when a bank manager ....could be trusted to recommend one a product

Not a word of a lie, the following happened to my close relative's business.
Bank manager suddenly informed withdraw OD of only about 10k.
Advised to add the 10k to mortgage as property worth say 300k and already half paid.
It would cost
1. admin fees
2. undo the original low rate tracker mortgage to a stupidly high fixed rate.

I told him to get a laon out if it need be to pay the 10k.
OD paid up.
Feedback, bank manager was far from happy.
 

karkus30

Banned
la gran siete said:
go ahead be my guest but i'll say one thing .I now believe its imperative that kids are taught finance at a suitable age so they can make informed choices so they stand a far less chance of getting burned later in life.Gone are the days when a bank manager or insurance person could be trusted to recommend one a product which would , in his candid view , be to ones own best interest.Neo liberalism has seen to that:thumbsdow

We can agree on that one. I think kids should be taught how the UK Ponzi bank scheme works. That money doesn't grow on trees, but is actually magicked out of thin air with a few strokes of a computer keyboard. They should also be primed never to take on credit. Mind you that's if fractional banking survives. 70 trillion dollars of debt is collateral for 700 trillion dollars of derivatives in the west. That's 1200% of GDP in a flatlined economy! That isn't sustainable for more than a year I reckon. There is no sign of any brightening and Governments are getting ever more desperate ( notice we no longer get regular news about Europe, it's gone awfully quiet ).
 
Last edited:

BISHI

Distinguished Member
Maybe this is what they are comparing public sector pensions to once the hidden costs are taken into account . Would private sector pensions be better than public sector if they weren't being ripped off I wonder..? Genuine question btw. I think this is disgraceful profiteering. I remember when my dads company pension fund was raped 20 years ago, I thought this sort of misinformational greed was long gone . Apparently not...
 
D

Deleted member 51156

Guest
go ahead be my guest but i'll say one thing .I now believe its imperative that kids are taught finance at a suitable age so they can make informed choices so they stand a far less chance of getting burned later in life.Gone are the days when a bank manager or insurance person could be trusted to recommend one a product which would , in his candid view , be to ones own best interest.Neo liberalism has seen to that:thumbsdow

I think its now imperative when visiting a financial advisor to take a loaded pump action shotgun,that should cut out the ********...
Get the bugger to sign an affidavit stating that he agree's to be excecuted if the policy/pension fails to deliver...:laugh:
 

johntheexpat

Distinguished Member
In a masochistic sort of way, I'm kind of happy to know someone is making money from my pension pots, because I'm not.

Even allowing for the fees on one of my pots (which are supposed to actually be very competitive) I got the annual statement today.

Last 12 months the pot grew by -3.99%

Then throw in inflation of 2.5%

6.5% off standing still. Still, there is always Euromillions. :clap:
 

sidicks

Banned
In a masochistic sort of way, I'm kind of happy to know someone is making money from my pension pots, because I'm not.

Even allowing for the fees on one of my pots (which are supposed to actually be very competitive) I got the annual statement today.

Last 12 months the pot grew by -3.99%

Then throw in inflation of 2.5%

6.5% off standing still. Still, there is always Euromillions. :clap:

What are you investing in?
 

la gran siete

Distinguished Member
I think its now imperative when visiting a financial advisor to take a loaded pump action shotgun,that should cut out the ********...
Get the bugger to sign an affidavit stating that he agree's to be excecuted if the policy/pension fails to deliver...:laugh:


i remember chatting to my so called iFA, a sly ****er if ever i met one, who told me that one of his clients asked what he should do with his unit trust fund which had plummeted in value "buy your self a sofa" was his reply.He didnt care because he was about too retire and did so soon after selling me a useless ISA.I later learnt that very few managed funds outstrip tracker ones
 

sidicks

Banned
i remember chatting to my so called iFA, a sly ****er if ever i met one, who told me that one of his clients asked what he should do with his unit trust fund which had plummeted in value "buy your self a sofa" was his reply.He didnt care because he was about too retire and did so soon after selling me a useless ISA.I later learnt that very few managed funds outstrip tracker ones

I think you really mean actively managed funds versus passive funds? I disagree that 'very few' active funds beat trackers, but would agree that seeking alpha is an additional risk that may not be worth paying extra for.
:smashin:
 

sidicks

Banned
That's very true - only 10% of active fund managers consistently outperform, according to this article: Are tracker funds a waste of money? | Money | The Observer.

It's because of their fees (~porsches and bollinger aint cheap) more than anything else. Passive funds are a much better idea.

The article also quotes that:
To be more precise, in the past five years, two out of every three active fund managers failed to beat the market, according to Standard & Poor's Indices Versus Active Funds Scorecard (Spiva) of US funds. The figures are pretty similar for the UK.

So in any year, typically one third of funds beat trackers, which is a lot more than 'very few'
:smashin:

However, I'd be inclined to agree that for most unsophisticated and risk averse investors a low cost tracker is what they should go for.
 

la gran siete

Distinguished Member
The article also quotes that:
To be more precise, in the past five years, two out of every three active fund managers failed to beat the market, according to Standard & Poor's Indices Versus Active Funds Scorecard (Spiva) of US funds. The figures are pretty similar for the UK.

So in any year, typically one third of funds beat trackers, which is a lot more than 'very few'
:smashin:

However, I'd be inclined to agree that for most unsophisticated and risk averse investors a low cost tracker is what they should go for.


i see even the fabled Athony Bolton has come cropper with his Chinese fund
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...Boltons-Fidelity-China-Is-time-buy-cheap.html
 
Last edited:

MikeTV

Distinguished Member
So in any year, typically one third of funds beat trackers, which is a lot more than 'very few'
It's still terrible. It means the so-called "experts" fail to achieve anything better than doing nothing, in 2 out of every 3 years. Which obviously beckons the question - why is anyone using them at all?
 

domtheone

Distinguished Member
In a masochistic sort of way, I'm kind of happy to know someone is making money from my pension pots, because I'm not.

Even allowing for the fees on one of my pots (which are supposed to actually be very competitive) I got the annual statement today.

Last 12 months the pot grew by -3.99%

Then throw in inflation of 2.5%

6.5% off standing still. Still, there is always Euromillions. :clap:

I got roughly the same (ish) result when I got my annual statement last month. Not contributing to that plan at the mo as i took half a year out of work but i'm not in any hurry to get it going again. Granted they're tax efficient etc etc but right now i'd rather do it myself and am doing so with a slow drip feed into some high yielding/cheap equities that I manage myself.

If it don't come good then I only have myself to blame. Starting to get a bit disillusioned with pension funds/savings bonds etc etc after I worked out that a 15 year savings bond thing that I took out once with Axa only yielded 2-3% yoy:rolleyes:

PS Will be doing the Euro millions end of next week when there's that 100 x millionaires created thing.:D
 

sidicks

Banned
MikeTV said:
That's the taxpayer's implicit subsidy to taxpayers saving for their retirement, right there.

Corrected that for you!!
 

sidicks

Banned
MikeTV said:
It's still terrible. It means the so-called "experts" fail to achieve anything better than doing nothing, in 2 out of every 3 years. Which obviously beckons the question - why is anyone using them at all?

Yes and no - investment in long-term assets such as equities, for example, should be considered over a 5year period, not a one year period.
 

The latest video from AVForums

Guardians of the Galaxy Xmas Special, Strange World, Bones and All, and Cabinet of Dr Caligari in 4K
Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Full fat HDMI teeshirts

Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom