It's complicated, but you lot are brainy enough to help... :-)

Discussion in 'Headphones, Earphones & Portable Music' started by Pecker, May 6, 2007.

  1. Pecker

    Pecker
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    Okay, I don't know if I can do this or not. Some of you might feel the same as me. Here we go.

    FIRST PROBLEM: Sometimes I want to rip an album because I want it on my organiser as an album. Let's say I want The Beatles 'Revolver' - I want that as an album. When I click on 'albums' in my organiser, I want to see this.

    But then I might not want 'Beatles For Sale' (it's not a very good album), but I might want to rip one or two tracks from there like 'Eight Days A Week' for a 'Best of The Beatles' playlist.

    Now the problem is, if I go into 'albums' on my organiser (currently Creative MeadiaSource) it will list all the albums I've ripped from, whether I've ripped the whole LP, or just one track. This clogs up the albums list. When I click on 'albums' in my organiser, I don't want to see 'Beatles For Sale', but I do want to see 'revolver'.

    SECOND PROBLEM: Then there's a problem with newly purchased albums. As an example, I've recently bought Arcade Fire's 'Neon Bible' (it's great'), and a couple of live Neil Young releases (also great). It'd be nice to have these in a seperate section called 'new stuff' (or something), as well as the normal albums list, so I don't forget to listen to them. Otherwise I might forget, and they sit on my PC, unlistened to for months.

    If I buy a new CD I leave it next to my CD player instead of filing it away on my shelves. I want to be able to do this with my organiser.

    Someone has suggested Media Monkey. Can I organise in the above ways with this organiser?

    Or with any other organiser?

    It seems such an obvious problem.

    Many thanks in advance for your help.

    Steve W
     
  2. waynertron

    waynertron
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    iTunes can do this with playlists, quite easily.
    It even has a 'Just Added' playlist by default for problem 2.
    But I suspect you don't want to use iTunes.
    :D
     
  3. Autopilot

    Autopilot
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    There a many solutions to your problems, and i am waiting for the GF to get ready for the pub, so quickly off the top of my head;

    Problem 1;

    You could come up with a tagging strategy. For instance, instead of having the album name in the album name tag, use something like "Favourite Beatles Tracks" or "Beatles singles". If you could try not having the Album name tag blank, but this will cause problems with some programs that will list an annoying "No Album" or "Untitled" in the albums list (which may be acceptable to some people).

    Or, when you rip the CD's you could set the ripper to auto create a playlist. When ripping complete albums name the playlist by the album name. In the case of the single files, name them whatever you feel like, such as "Favourite". Then you browse by playlist.

    That said, i really dont see what the problem is. It could cause you problems in future. It's a bit of an unusual strategy because at some point think 'i really want to listen to that track from xxxxxx, can't remember the track name only the album'. Also, you not just rip the whole album, it's much nicer to have a complete album. There are many tracks i dont like, but prefer to keep them for completeness.

    Problem 2;

    Some software will list recently added tracks/album. My Slimserver software for my Squeezebox does, it has a New Music section. (why have you not got an SB anyway? ;))

    If not, create a custom tag called "date ripped" or "Date added". I am sure EAC and other rippers have the option to add the current date to to a tag. Then you can browse by date added tag if the software you use allows this (i believe Media Monkey does).

    I am sure people can come up with other ideas, i am in a bit of a rush, over to you lot :)...
     
  4. Pecker

    Pecker
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    Cheers.

    For problem 1, let's say that every track I ripped just for a playlist I changed the album tag to 'playlist'. Would they all show up as being from the same album, or 50 different albums all called 'playlist'? At least if they all showed up as 1 album, I'd only have one extra album in my 'albums' list. Instead of 'playlist' I could call it 'zzzzz'. That way it'd always appear at the bottom of this list.

    On problem 2, thanks for the help, but none really works as I'd like. Some albums I'll buy then keep next to my CD player for a couple of months - others a couple of weeks. Some old albums I'll fall in love with for a second time, and pull from my CD library and keep next to my CD player for a few weeks.

    This is very usual behaviour for music lovers. At several forums I frequent there are regular threads asking "Which 4 or 5 CDs are on top of your CD player?" or "Which CDs are in your car CD changer at the moment?".

    That's what some of these organisers need. A facility to flag an album and/or playlist as being 'on top of the CD player'.

    Steve W
     
  5. Pecker

    Pecker
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    That's not really a problem. If I like a track enough to want to rip it, but not the album, I won't remember the name of the album (which I don't like) but forget the name of the track (which I do like). Either way, I'll remember the artist.

    I would never go down the route of ripping albums then deleting the odd track I didn't like. It's more a case of when I want to make, for example, a rockabilly playlist. I have lots of rockabilly compilations, but not one I want to listen to the whole way through.

    Thanks again for the help.

    Steve W
     
  6. lazymatt

    lazymatt
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    If you click the tag 'Part of a Compilation' it should recognise all the tracks called 'zzzzz', or whatever, as one album and group all those songs together.

    Surely that's what play lists are for? Just create a new play list for those CD you want to put 'on top of the CD player', and then add to it. Remove the old ones as you go. You can call it 'Top of CD Player' or whatever, and have it as a running play list that you add and remove albums/tracks from as you go.

    From memory Media Monkey has a 'just added' section for new stuff like in iTunes, but I could be wrong.
     
  7. Pecker

    Pecker
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    That's one way around it.

    I could have playlist 'aaa1', and 'aaa2', etc. Just keep changing the tracks on the playlists.

    But it's a bit of a faff.

    As I've said, I think just about everyone I know with a decent CD collection keeps most of the CDs filed away, and the new ones (plus a couple of old ones they're getting back in to) on top of the CD player.

    It'd be a piece of cake to add this feature to these organisers. Just right click on the album and then click on 'Currently Playing'. There is then one extra 'Currently Playing' option next to 'albums', 'artists', 'tracks', and 'playlists'.

    Very easy indeed to add. Very useful.

    Steve W
     
  8. PJTX100

    PJTX100
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    Once you have all your tracks available digitally, you can organise / cut / slice / dice / compile in every way you could ever want - far, far more flexibly than with physical CDs.

    eg Smart playlists can automatically populate on time based criteria. So you could have one, say, for everything bought in the past month, or 3 months etc.

    You can rate tracks, and have a smart playlist that picks on the highest ratings, or the most played.

    You can have criteria such as "include this" but "exclude this" - as many times as you want. This is hugely powerful.

    And, of course, there's random shuffle functionality which can be a lot of fun.
     
  9. lazymatt

    lazymatt
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    I think you just need to get your head around a slightly different way of thinking about your music. Everything you suggest is, I'm sure, achievable one way or another, and will be much more convenient as well.
     
  10. Pecker

    Pecker
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    But not anything like as simple as what I proposed. Again, 'everything from the last 3 months' would include thinks I'd bought recently but didn't want to listen to, and would exclude older stuff I wanted to re-discover.

    I think I had that with CD. There's lots of good stuff on these organisers, but that doesn't effect what's missing.

    No it won't. Not a single thing that's been said is even remotely close to being as simple as what I suggested.

    I shouldn't need to get my head around anything. The organisers should do what we want them to do. We're not supposed to be slaves to the technology, it's there to serve us.

    I've yet to read one thing in this thread which either says that a seperate section ('top of the player, or whatever you want to call it) isn't a good idea, or that shows any manner of implementing this which is as simple as the 'one click of the mouse' I suggest.

    Cheers for the discussion. At least I got the 'playlist' thing sorted.

    Steve W
     
  11. PJTX100

    PJTX100
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    Your 'Top of the Player' is defined by rules dictated by your own tastes, hence it's a bit unreasonable to expect to be able to define that in one click!

    Dragging & dropping your TOTP choices to a playlist should not be too much of a chore though.
     
  12. Pecker

    Pecker
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    No, I think you're missing what I'm saying. Step back a bit.

    You click once on an album to add it to an extra section, alongside Artists, albums, tracks & playlists.

    Whatever criterea I use it for is irrelevant.

    Ther fact is that the technology should be helping us. I think that before mp3s most of us (95%+?) with large CD collections did the following:

    - All our CDs filed alphabetically by artist;
    - We buy a new CD we don't file it, but keep it next to our CD player, or in the car multi-CD changer;
    - This pile/CD changer also includes back-catalogue titles we're listening to again;
    - We make compilations on cassette/CDs/MDs (how you age us, Curry's :( ) ;

    All we really want from the software is a more accessable, easier to use, occasionally more portable version of the above.

    I note that, depite lots of advice to the contrary, no-one here has yet to say "Bloody hell, I've never heard of anyone keeping a pile of new CDs next to the player!". We all know that the vast majority of us do it.

    The fact is that the technology should be helping us replicate what we already do, in an easier way.

    Steve W
     
  13. james.miller

    james.miller
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    the solution is pretty simple. organise by folder, and you can put anything where ever you want.
     
  14. GeoffWork

    GeoffWork
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    I have several smart playlists, called today, 3 days, 5 days, 7 days etc. so I can see the stuff which is new, nearly new etc. I record radio shows to play in the car and it is quick to open up the iPod and select three days, my usual one, but I can also select seven days for shows which are about to be replaced. This works really well for me, I hope it helps.
     
  15. Autopilot

    Autopilot
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    Well i don't really have this problem as Slimserver does exactly what you ask - it has a menu option called 'New Music', based on when the music was added to my collection.

    I am sure Winamp library also has a similar feature.

    Or another solution would be to have a folder structure which includes dates. I.e. C:\Music\09052007\Coldplay\X & Y (2006). You could actually get the ripper, like EAC, to auto generate this folder structure very easily at the time of ripping.

    Also, what's wrong with having a "date purchased" or "date added" tag and getting something like media money etc to sort by that? Again, i use EAC and Foobar200, both can auto add this tag using a basic script.
     
  16. lazymatt

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    Yeah, unless I'm missing something (which is quite possible) just add stuff to a play list. It provides exactly the same function as keeping a pile of CD's by the CD player as far as I can tell.
     
  17. Pecker

    Pecker
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    How?

    How do you sort that?

    Let's say I bought a Neil Young re-issue 2 months ago, which I still want on rotation, the Arcade Fire album 2 weeks ago, which I'm fed up with (I'm not, just an example) and a Buddy Holly re-issue last week which is excellent.

    In addition, I heard The Waterboys 'Fisherman's Blues' 3 weeks ago on the radio and have dug the album out to listen to again.

    All the other music I've bought since Christmas I don't want on rotation.

    So, in Ye Olde Dayes, I'd have Neil Young (2 months old), Buddy Holly(one week old) and The Waterboys (several tears old) on top of my CD player, but not Arcade Fire (two weeks old).

    How on earth do date tags work with that? Date tags only work if I get fed up with every single piece of music at exactly the same age. Unfortunately, being a human being, this doesn't tend to happen.

    As for creating a 'Top Of The Player' playlist, that'd be a playlist with Young, Holly & Waterboys all on together - I want to listen to them as seperate albums.

    None of the solutions anyone here has offered actually caters for this scenario. And yet it's a scenario not uncommon - okay, not with the exact albums, but surely you get my point.

    Steve W
     
  18. lazymatt

    lazymatt
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    So you'd have Young, Holly & Water boys...just pick the album from the play list you want to listen to.....

    I have to say, I'm a great exponent of digital music - it's radically altered the way I listen to music (and all for the better in my opinion). I find it more flexible, convenient and am stunned by the fact it's all achievable with hi-fi quality (not something that could realistically be said a few years ago due to the prohibitive cost of storage).
     
  19. Pecker

    Pecker
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    I totally agree with that last bit - the technology is awesome, and extremely convenient. Amazing, and I love it.

    But there are still just 1 or 2 things missing.

    I think one of the problems, ironically enough, is that so many early adopters are such traditionalists. Look at what I've suggested. Not difficult. Not revolutionary. Would take a handfull of lines of code. Would replace something almost everyone with a CD collection does already. Useful.

    And yet it's a suggestion met with incredulity.

    Steve W
     
  20. lazymatt

    lazymatt
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    Not at all - I think we're all just suggesting there's various ways of achieving what you want.

    Have you noticed that no one has said 'yes - that's a good idea'? I think it's because we are already happily doing this....organising our music the way we want.

    It is a good idea, but one that is already achievable.
     

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