It's called 4K, there's no such thing as UHD!

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Phil Hinton, Oct 28, 2013.


    1. Phil Hinton

      Phil Hinton
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    2. Pecker

      Pecker
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      For me, the reason it shouldn't be called 4K is because it's not 4K.

      Home video has always been named after the number of lines used (height) such as 720p or 1080p.

      In the cinema, digital projection is named after the number of pixels across (width), such as 2K or 4K.

      In the cinema 4K is 4096 × 2160. In home cinema it's currently been 3840 × 2160, with that 4096 either down-rezzed to 3840 or cropped.

      NTSC is 480i
      PAL is 576i
      HD Ready is 720p
      Full HD is 1080p
      The new format is 2160p

      1080p and cinema 2K are slightly different, so aren't given the same name.

      The new format and cinema 4K are slightly different in exactly the same way and for exactly the same reasons, so shouldn't be given the same name.

      Just my opinion.

      EDIT - Just read that in more detail, and the article says:

      If anything, this is worse. We already have 3840 x 2160 flat panel displays. As far as I'm aware the limited amount of software out there is 3840 x 2160. Where are going to end up?

      My understanding is that the new TV formats will be 3840 x 2160. If the new film software (Ultra Blu-ray ?) is the same, then the added resolution here is a waste. If it's 4096 then we're facing a future of constant cropping or scaling.

      Imagine a film scanned at 4K, down-rezzed from 4096 to 3840 for Sky UHD, then upscaled from 3840 to 4096 to fill the chip.

      Madness.

      Steve W
       
      Last edited: Oct 28, 2013
    3. SteveCritten

      SteveCritten
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      Sorry for the pedantics mate but it seems to be the theme. "HD ready" isn't necessarily 720p. It is was any res PJ/TV that could accept a HD signal.;)
       
    4. Pecker

      Pecker
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      I think if it was just 'HD Ready' it was 720p. If it was 1080p it was either 'Full HD' or 'HD Ready 1080p'.

      I know what you mean about pedantry, but to an extent that's what the article is about.

      For me, I'd just like everyone involved (TV manufacturers, projector manufacturers, software) to use the same resolution and call it something consistent. Is that really too much to ask? If they all go true (cinema 4096x2160) 4K, then fine. If they want to go 3840x2160 and call it 2160p, then fine.

      But calling 3840 '4K', or bringing in projectors, flat screen TVs and software all of different resolutions just isn't satisfactory. It's also completely unnecessary.

      I know Joe Kane has already expressed his concern about downscaling 4096 to 3840, and about calling 3840 '4K'.

      Steve W
       
    5. SteveCritten

      SteveCritten
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      No Steve I couldn't agree more as you say it would cut out all the up scaling down scaling and sideways scaling. But we would be dreaming for the film industry to stick to one standard I remember the VHS Betamax fight well.
       
    6. Joe Fernand

      Joe Fernand
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      As others are saying UHD and 4K are not one and the same so why continue with trying to say they are – then again LED TV has stuck!

      ‘I think if it was just 'HD Ready' it was 720p. If it was 1080p it was either 'Full HD' or 'HD Ready 1080p' – HD Ready wasn’t about defining the actual resolution of a Display it was about defining signal support at a time when lots of ‘HD’ Displays would only work at 60Hz and were causing chaos for early adopters of SKY HD and other 50Hz HD sources.
      http://www.digitaleurope.org/Services/HighDefinitionLogos.aspx

      It looks like Digitaleurope are already on the case defining a labeling system for Ultra HD - http://www.digitaleurope.org/SearchResults.aspx?Search=hdtv

      Joe
       
    7. vism

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      Gotta say, Sony haven't put a foot wrong as far as 4k goes, can't wait to see their consumer products in action.

      I much prefer the term 4k, it's snappy and clearly differentiates itself from HD or the excessively difficult 2160P.
      Does it matter that TV 4k means something different to cinema 4k?
       
    8. Joe Fernand

      Joe Fernand
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    9. vism

      vism
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      lol:facepalm:
       
    10. Pecker

      Pecker
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      Do you not think the public might not 'get' UHD a lot easier?

      With 4K some might think that their current set is just over 1,000 lines and this new one has 4,000 lines.

      But then again, the cynic in me says that maybe that's the idea.

      There is absolutely nothing un-gettable or confusing about UHD. It's a crystal clear, obvious, understandable term, devoid of any chance of confusion. You can't say the same about 4K as it's a term already in use which means something else, and which labels resolution in a way never done before in home entertainment products.

      Just my opinion.

      Steve W
       
    11. Alliswell

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      Still looking forwards to getting my Sony 4K though, in fact I cannot wait. I am like a kid at Xmas.
       
    12. xafier

      xafier
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      Been thinking about a projector for when we move into our next house, but I think this will be a little out of my price range :D But hopefully plenty of others will upgrade and I can pick up a nice deal on a good 1080p projector :)
       
    13. danny daniell

      danny daniell
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      I'm looking forward to reading some professional reviews on the VW 500 as in contrast to some other peoples opinions i thought that the black levels and contrast were pretty poor.which was a shame as it made the colors look slightly washed out and pallid.

      Super bright picture and great levels of detail (with native 4k) though.
       
    14. Russ

      Russ
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      Can you imagine the public confusion and law suites?

      "My last tv was what it said it was - 1080 lines, but this new set says it is 4k but is is only 2160 lines....I want my missing 2160 lines, where are they?" ;)

      Somehow I think most consumers don't understand or care what a line is anyway, so the name 4k will work just fine for sets with a better quality picture.

      And let's face it, 4k will be followed by 8k,16k (or whatever) on the path to display and tv technology without any discernible line or pixel structure at any screen size and so we will need labels as technology moves towards true ultimate high definition...
      Similarly, 3D, as it is created today will soon cease. Just too excluding and messy.

      Never mind the name, it's content that matters. Sony have been here before as brave pioneers, but their approach this time - creating a new 'market' and expectation for higher quality in the film industry will help drive change into the home.

      As for me, this space is moving to fast for my wallet to keep up, so I will buy the VPL-HW55es as a stop gap for the next couple of years and enjoy the next developments.
       

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