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It's bye-bye HS10 I'm afraid.. :(

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by John_N, Apr 3, 2003.

  1. John_N

    John_N
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    :( :rolleyes:

    Today is a sad day. I've made the decision to return my HS10 and swap it for a differerent unit.

    This is due primarily to my first HS10 being replaced due to recurrent and persistent problems starting, and then this second HS10 refusing to start and I suppose I'm a little cautious - I don't want it to refuse to start after I've had it too long to get a free repair or whatever.

    The other issue that shoved me in this direction is the fan noise of the HS10 which, although I learned to live with it, I've never been entirely happy with the noise and wished it quieter. This seems to be an opportunity to do something about it.

    The final (minor) issue is that very dark scenes are not the best and sometimes in the past I've been straining to pick out shadow detail. Overall I find myself preferring to watch bright films like vertical limit as opposed to dark films.

    The units on my shortlist to demo (preferably at HOME) are:

    NEC HT1000
    Sony VPL-VW12HT
    Epson TW100

    All of which are around £2700 - £2900 + VAT mark.

    I looked at the toshiba MT8 but I don't want to spend that much and I can't find an HD2 (12 degree high contrast) 16:9 DLP machine for less than that. The NEC has rave reviews if you can work around the 4:3 panel... Only a viewing test with 16:9 material will tell of course.

    J
     
  2. Messiah

    Messiah
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    A sad day indeed. Any time without a pj is a sad time :(

    My offer of a home demo and/or a TW100 for less than the price of a HS10 still stands.
     
  3. John_N

    John_N
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    Hi Messiah

    Have sent you a PM.
    J
     
  4. Messiah

    Messiah
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    John

    My post did not read too well (looking at it again). My offer of a home demo still stands even if you have no intention of buying it from me. Apologies that it did not read like that. If you can't get one to try let me know and I will gladly stop by with TW100 in tow for you to look at.

    Cheers

    Neil
     
  5. WebLoader

    WebLoader
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    john you have a pm.
     
  6. RASH PATEL

    RASH PATEL
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    John,

    I agree,it's a sad day,and I am likely to do the same as you as soon as I encounter even a small problem with my replaced HS10.
    One question,John,does VPL 12ht have DVI input,long run my aim
    is to go for HTPC with a DVI connection.
     
  7. Messiah

    Messiah
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    I'm not John but I can answer your question. Unfortunately the VW12HT does not have a DVI input. The TW100 has though :D
     
  8. RASH PATEL

    RASH PATEL
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    Messiah,

    Thanks for the info,mate,


    Rash
    (Oh! HS10,please please,don't breakdown..........! for I can't bear to live without you )
     
  9. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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  10. Kramer

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    Ah - but will it accept a HCPC signal in 1:1 Pixel mapping? That is the question :confused:

    Panasonic's AE300 has a DVI connection but no-one has, as yet, managed 1:1 mapping via DVI (or VGA for that matter!).

    Even more iresome when the previous (& far cheaper - £799) AE100 accepted 1:1 via VGA.

    DVI is, IMHO, a major improvement in terms of digital projection. If anyone's seen a desktop TFT/LCD via VGA & DVI, the difference is astounding.

    Pic from a HS10 via DVI in 1:1 is pretty good :p
     
  11. Mr. Wilby

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    Also, is there a 1:1 mapping for the Epson? As far as I can see from many hours of searching on AVS, it appears there's not an exact 1:1, though there have been some reports of running at something close to it.

    Also, there's lots of reports of vertical banding and other artifacting on AVS so if you're considering the Epson I'd have a good look on their first and then do a demo.

    I was also considering the Epson (or the Yamaha clone of it) but the cost is really too high for me to justify (for a first PJ) just because the fan noise is quite high :(
     
  12. John_N

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    Yes. That's true - I have read about vertical banding and other artifacts on the Epson TW100 and would want to view first.

    I'm tempted by the Sony VPL-VW12 at it's new reduced price due to reported improvements in fan noise/black level etc etc etc. The ack of a DVI input on the '12 is an inconvenience because I use both a DVD player and a HTPC but I'm sure I could manage to use a VGA input instead.

    The other option - the HT1000 - I want to have another look at it my home. The extremely quiet fan is one large selling point and the other features like 2000:1 to 3000:1 contrast, reputedly very good black levels. The down side is the 4:3 panel which I would be using as a 16:9 unit on a 16:9 screen. I'm not so worried about light overspill which could probably be reduced further using a mask on the lens, as the reducction in brightness and resolution that this brings. The HT1000 is rated at 800 ANSI in Eco mode and uses a 1024*768 panel. When viewing 16:9 material this should equate to 1024 * 576 res and 75% brightness or 600 ANSI I suppose. I would therefore expect the brightness to be similar to my existing HS10 but there is no substitute for trying it out... :)

    I'll wait and see I guess. Once I've seen the prospective replacements I can make the decision...

    J
     
  13. Messiah

    Messiah
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    I agree about the slight vertical banding on the TW100 but believe me it is nothing like people are making out. It is almost unnoticeable and even then it is only in very light scenes. IMHO, thi sis more than made up for in the overall general image quality and later today I should be setting up the DVI cable from my HTPC so that will be very interseting.

    What I do know is that when I had the TW100 last year and connected my very low spec PC to it via VGA the banding disappeared 100%. In fact I think I posted about it at the time so a search may discover my post from that time. (Just found it http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43817&highlight=tw100+geforce)

    Also, considering Epson panels are used (I believe) in a multitude of pjs I reckon it must be a software issue (which I know has also been apparent on other non Epson and even non-LCD pjs if you view AVS) and I am gonna get this one upgraded with the latest firmware (unless it sells first) as I am gettingrather attached to it. The colours are amazing.
     
  14. ian_guinan

    ian_guinan
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    Oddly enough I think the TW100 is one of the quieter projectors and the Yamaha version of it is even quieter still. I'd put it on a par with the AE300..

    My MT8 is much noisier, so I think you could be disappointed if you're hoping to find something much quieter (esp. re. the HS10)

    Regards,
    Ian Guinan
     
  15. John_N

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    Hi Ian

    I'm a bit confused by your last post....

    I currently have an HS10. Apart from the start up issues, I feel sometimes the lamp noise is a little intrusive.

    I understand that the TW100 is significantly quieter than the HS10, being one of the quieter units out there.

    The HT1000 is one of the quietest units around I understand, since in "Eco" mode I have heard reports that it sounds like the fan is not running - even with your ear 12" away you can hear no sound at all. I will have to see that on demo of course.

    I don't understand this part:

    As far as I know, I won't be disappointed because a lot of units are quieter than the HS10. My HS10 in a warm room sounds like a chainsaw....

    J
     
  16. Messiah

    Messiah
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    I think maybe Ian thought Mr Wilby's post was saying the TW100 was noisy (which of course it isn't). Twas a bit ambiguous but I took it he (Mr W) was referring to his HS10.
     
  17. ian_guinan

    ian_guinan
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    Sorry for the confusion..this is what made me think the TW100 was being accused of being noisy..far from it in fact.

    Ian Guinan
     
  18. Mr. Wilby

    Mr. Wilby
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    Yeah, sorry about that... wrote in a hurry! I meant that I can't justify paying that much money for a TW100 in order to secure a quieter fan (than an HS10, which is my current "most likely purchase").
     
  19. John_N

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    Mind you, the HS10 is £2113 approx and if you can pick up the VPL-VW12HT for another £500 it's certainly tempting don't you think? I intend to demo the VPL-VW12HT with great interest. With any luck it won't suffer from the "lamp bug" and the fan noise will be quieter. Well worth consideration IMHO if you can find another £500 and put up with the '12 not having a DVI input. That's a strange decision from sony don't you think?

    J
     
  20. Messiah

    Messiah
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    Guess it gives people a good reason to upgrade to the 13 and more sales for Sony :)
     
  21. petrolhead

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    Messiah
    Just interested but did you replace a PJ with the TW100 or tis this first delve into projectors?
     
  22. Messiah

    Messiah
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    Yeah, had quite a few.

    Sony VPL900
    AE100
    TW100
    Barco 701s CRT
    and now got a TW100 and the CRT.

    Why? Mainly because the Barco is too dark, too fiddly and I've just gotten fed up with it. I have traded no pixel structure / beatifully smooth image for instant switch on, brighter, more colourful, quieter, more input flexibility but cannot argue that I have lost the smoothness of the CRT image.

    TBH, give it a few weeks and I will get well used to the TW100. I reckon I'll keep it till end of year the sell it on and by a HD3 DLP unit (or equivalent).
     

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