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Isn't "sub" talk the most fun? - Discuss.

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by Smurfin, Aug 31, 2003.

  1. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    What is it about subwoofers?

    Someone mentions LFE, or asks the question "Which sub?" and this forum is off like a rocket!

    Mention the words "Velodyne" "Servo 15" "SVS" and to lesser degree "REL"...and it's like a starting pistol......on your marks.....:D

    The mere whiff of subwoofer discussion seems to bring out ancient tribal territorial traits in people:D

    Sub comparisons are eagerly read with anticipation. I can imagine the "winning" brand owners nodding in agreement (and perhaps with a little smile?)...and the "losing" brand dismissing the review, or thinking "Hmm surely I can't upgrade again ".

    I have no idea why this is, people don't seem to get as impassioned about other elements of kit as with subs (hmm processors maybe comes a close second).

    I'm not sure whether it's always been like this, but I'm guessing its due in part to the old "power buy" situation, which I for one always thought was skewing opinion on the boards out of context. It does seem more balanced now, and I think theres also a balance of "owners" out there which helps.

    Sub discussion has become very topical again (actually when wasn't it topical?), and I think alot of it is down to the "bandwagon" effect. People start talking/hyping a particular sub, it sparks off general subwoofer discussions, which then prompts "unenlightened" (;)) people to ask questions, which keeps it going all the more. It's all good stuff:)

    For me, well I've always loved bass for a start. LFE is one of the most potent weapons in the 5.1 arsenal imho (if used correctly), and can add soo much to the AV experience. And until you've heard a GOOD subwoofer that can plumb the sub-20hz depths...you ain't heard nothing.

    IMHO of course;)
     
  2. Spligsey

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    "servo" & "servo controlled" has basically fuel injected the sub debate for a while now.

    With a few exceptions, none of us knew what the fudge it meant/did a while back.

    Adz
     
  3. Dimmy

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    A Sub is the difference between sound with movement & direction & sound that moves & directs your body :)
     
  4. blue73

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    Personally... I "think" subs are like the whole fast car thing only when everybody is out or you have understanding or deaf ( after all they soon would be) neighbours you can let rip, yes its not "HI Fi" and no its not conveying the musical aest,,,********. Its just fun to make your insides rumble and make your heart race..:clap: Wow I feel enlightened.....
     
  5. Sunday Ironfoot

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    It's funny how we're more interested in something that only uses 10% of the bandwidth of the rest of the audio. :D
     
  6. Dimmy

    Dimmy
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    It's kinda difficult to get excited about supertweeters though isn't it!
     
  7. Sunday Ironfoot

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    Ah, but what about the finer things in life? :smoke:
     
  8. blue73

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    Yeh 'cos if you went mad with super tweeters all you would end up doin is makin your ears bleed and thats not fun......Is it. At least serious amounts of bass can make you fart and thats funny:blush: he he
     
  9. Sunday Ironfoot

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    ROFLMAO!!! :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
     
  10. blue73

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    Stop it Sunday you.............. :p
     
  11. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
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    Matt,

    It is one of those subjects that just seems to get people going, and thats maybe because it is so hard to get bass right.

    I remember the good old days when the type of advice you got was silly, but we all believed it at the time. Subs must be on the right hand side of the front sound stage, cos thats where the bass comes from in a live event? what the fudge. Bass is non directional? Er No (funny how some mags still say this.)

    And then there was the powerbuys. Both good and bad in my opinion. Good as we had never heard of Velodyne until then (well a few had, but not many) and it introduced many to cheap quality bass in the guise of the CHT-10, and also allowed the few to get HGS in their homes. Bad point was the over saturation of the products and the over the top hype which that in turn bred. And it also got to the stage that any question asked about which sub, guaranteed a velodyne answer. Not that Velodyne are bad in anyway, but the over the top hype and salesmanship of a few, spoilt real open discussion.

    We are now blessed with more SVS owners, and thanks to RS (never thought i would say that) and their crazy £399 for the servo 15, we will have even more voices adding opinion to the debates, which is good in my eyes.

    I have never been one to defend a bad product, and i am always open to suggestion on what to try in my system, I will hopefully have an SVS in my room this week to compare against the CHT15 i have had for a while now.

    There is now a good balance to the forums in general. Many of the experts are on hand to add good advice which is truely unbiased and certainly contains no sales pitch attached (unlike the old days) and thankfully the salesmen no longer appear with their over hyped thread killing.

    It's all good here at the moment, and i am enjoying the long indepth threads on the subject, and with £400 burning a hole, might even look at a servo for the livingroom ;)
     
  12. Andywilliams

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    Hi Folks
    Sunday Ironfoot said isnt it funny how somthing that uses only 10% of the bandwidth causes so much debate.I was without a subwoofer for 5 weeks and i can tell you that 10% was like having a knob without kna!!!!!.:D
    Gonzo.
     
  13. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    These sub debates go back long before the power buys! I think the reason the power buys took off was they were doing it 'correctly' but I must say it is now nice to see so many people 'educated' in bass matters.
     
  14. eviljohn2

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    As one of those who simply can't afford a new sub (got a PDR-10 which is good enough with movies) I find all this sub-talk necessary reading but always very depressing!
     
  15. graham r j

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    All this talk 'bout LFE reminded me of a site I stumbled across, anyone interested take a look here:-
    www.legacy-audio.com/2003/lfxtreme.html
    I think it may be just the thing to loosen the bowels.
    Also how's 'bout this for a centre speaker:-
    www.legacy-audio.com/2003/marquis.html
    Wot madness!!!!!!!!!!!

    TTFN

    Edit... This site also has some mad amps and other stuff so go have a look.
     
  16. SanPedro

    SanPedro
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    Well said bee.

    If it wasn't for this forum and people like you , Smurfin, Ian J, Nick B etc. I'd have gone and bought some £150 crappo from RS or Superfi :blush:

    Thanks again lads

    Chris L
     
  17. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    Wouldn't call me educated, I'm still learning:) I'm just enthusiastic for this "hobby" (god what a crap word)
     
  18. chris

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    If it was not for this DAMN forum......i would still be happy sitting there with my BUSH Stack system with loads of nice distorted bass and not overdrawn and still need to spend money.

    Why do i always get expensive hobbys :rolleyes: .
     
  19. SanPedro

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    It is a crap word. Reminds me of trainspotters and stamp collectors. Sad gits in anoraks. And we're not sad are we guys oh no, definately not. Are we guys... guys....?

    ;)

    Enthusiast isn't much better. Sounds like the sort who likes fixing old cars.

    No, what we need is a cool meaningless title, like the Americans and labour government do so well. Something like... 'Audio extremists' (or something. Ideas welcome). To put us up there with windsurfers and skydivers and the like. Something the girls will think is cool (well hopefully).

    Hi-fi buff is definitely a completely no-no ;)

    Chris
     
  20. BillyNomez

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    yup, despite some moaning, bitchin' and some oneupmanship about the many subs on the market there has been a lot of informed and useful comment here that we newbies can use to make informed purchases.
    Free speech - even the mines bigger + better than yours/your box doesnt cut it - aint it grand ! Thankfully the sub wasnt.

    BRBN
     
  21. Noodle

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    :eek: :eek: :eek:

    Dual 15" drivers!!!! It'd crush me telly.
     
  22. uncle eric

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    Multiply this limited bandwidth by 5, 6, or 7, add the LFE channel and you have the most active speaker in your system.
    Hence the interest in quality subs.
     
  23. blue73

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    Hi people,
    Right not sure if this is going to go down too well but still I'am sure the math/science behind it is true. The whole point of a sub is to act upon the very frequencies it is fed and given the size of the driver and overall mass of the whole unit the outcome can vary a lot, ie a 12' sub can do the job just fine, Yeh. Now use a cabinet with 2 8' subs and I think the overall effect would be even better. What I mean is the 12 is good enough but the 2 8s are faster at the delivery. Now imagine using the equivelent power of 2 servo 15s in 2 cabinets using say 4 8' or 10' drivers. Would that not be faster or 'am I missing the point:rolleyes:
     
  24. Sunday Ironfoot

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    :lesson:

    Technically it only occupies 10% of the audio bandwidth, yet it's the bit that we hear the most, wheras the incredibly small tweater unit will handle around 60% of that bandwidth, yet it's the bit we're least able to hear variations in frequency. For instance, we're more likely to hear differences between two subs that can do 40Hz and 25Hz (a 15Hz difference), than we are between two tweaters that can do say 18KHz and 20 KHz (a 2000Hz difference). Ain't audio a funny world! :suicide:
     
  25. HotblackDesiato

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    I don't pretend to fully understand the nuances of DD but isn't that (the 10%) just the LFE channel? So if we start setting our 5, 6 or 7 speakers to small...dumping everything below 100/80Hz to the sub wouldn't it be responsible for more than 10% of bandwidth. Just thinking out aloud...
     
  26. Jsinger

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    Untrue I'm afraid.

    The main frequency that is audible to a healthy human being is between 3 to 4Khz. This is due to the fact that this is the frequency range occupied by the average human speaking voice and is therefore essential for us to hear and process correctly in order for communicative purposes.
     
  27. Ian J

    Ian J
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    As dogs can hear frequencies that are too high for humans to hear, is this because dogs have very high frequency barks :confused:
     
  28. HotblackDesiato

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    They, their prey, and predators all generate ultra-sonic output. Apologies for dragging the thread further OT.
     
  29. Apocalypse

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    I'm just waiting for the member called D_Attenborough to jump in this thread now.
     
  30. Smurfin

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    God, sub talk was the most fun until I read the last few posts in this thread:D
     

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