Isn't it time FIFA/UEFA did something ....

True. But ultimately, isn't it down to managers to stamp on the players? (Not literally of course, as they will obviously look for the penalty!) :rotfl:

Brian Clough would never have allowed this nonsense.
 
Istanbul_Kop said:
Brian Clough was nonsense.

Don't talk rubbish, you have no idea what you are talking about if you believe that statement :mad:
 
Cloughy was the best man manager of his generation. His record (with no money, and average players) is superb.
 
JohnG said:
Don't talk rubbish, you have no idea what you are talking about:mad:


At last. You've been found out. And by a MOD at that. Priceless!:rotfl:
 
JohnG said:
Don't talk rubbish, you have no idea what you are talking about if you believe that statement :mad:

What Brian Clough said about Hillsborough can never be excused.:thumbsdow

CFC1 said:
At last. You've been found out. And by a MOD at that. Priceless!:rotfl:

So I haven't been found out unfortunately, and I hate to say it...but a Mod? Who gives one? Doesn't mean he knows more about football than me. Far from it.
 
lostinspace said:
So, if I was footy's god, I'd do this:
1. No player can ever play against a club for whom he has previously played.
2. One substitute, not like now.
3. Team squads are 20 players, no more. Or alternatively, the points you have at the end of the season are divided by the number of players registered.
4. One yellow card, miss 10 games. One red card miss a season's worth.
5. Three red cards, and you're out forever.
6. Diving/cheating/spitting immediate life ban.
7. 4 points for a win,2 for a scoring draw, 1 for a no score draw. And one point for every goal scored. Or better, penalties if a draw at 90 minutes- might help England that one!

your name isn't Sepp is it?
 
Istanbul_Kop said:
What Brian Clough said about Hillsborough can never be excused.:thumbsdow

So that made him a bad manager did it ? Typical Scouse repy, always with the chip on the shoulder. Brian Clough spoke his mind and upset a few people yes, but he was one of very few English football greats who knew how to get the best out of players and knew how to win things.
 
So I haven't been found out unfortunately, and I hate to say it...but a Mod? Who gives one? Doesn't mean he knows more about football than me. Far from it.[/QUOTE]

How do you know how much football knowledge I've gained in my 40 odd years of watching and supporting ?
 
Hey JohnG, I'm not looking for the fight you're trying to start.

What Clough said about Hillsborough and why he said it...and then later why he apologised wreaks of the kind of man he truley was.

The people of Merseyside know this....and I'll think you find, belittling Hilsborough as having a 'chip on the shoulder' is very poor form.

No need to be insulting because someone doesn't agree with you. :thumbsdow
 
Istanbul_Kop said:
What Brian Clough said about Hillsborough can never be excused.:thumbsdow



So I haven't been found out unfortunately, and I hate to say it...but a Mod? Who gives one? Doesn't mean he knows more about football than me. Far from it.
Plenty of people said 'things' about Hillsborough and a lot of them were rubbish, including Taylor himself. That does not however, mean CLough himself was 'rubbish'. Only someone who knows nothing about football (beyond his/her own team) would make that statement.

JohnG is a Forest fan, and one who's watched the game at many levels, for years. You are a Liverpool fan, 99% of whom live in a bubble where winning is everything and football nothing. 3-0 to John. ;)
 
Non Liverpool fans (except a fair few Evertonians) will never understand the true effect Hillsbororugh had on the city and the football club. Especially those personally affected.

Are you saying the whole of Liverpool know nothing about football?

Continue to kiss mod arse if you please, it doesn't bother me. Make your generalisations and sweeping comments.

Clough might as well have danced on the 96 graves with his misinformed and idiotic comments.

I'm signing you all up for a subscription the the Sun.
 
Istanbul_Kop said:
Hey JohnG, I'm not looking for the fight you're trying to start.

What Clough said about Hillsborough and why he said it...and then later why he apologised wreaks of the kind of man he truley was.

The people of Merseyside know this....and I'll think you find, belittling Hilsborough as having a 'chip on the shoulder' is very poor form.

No need to be insulting because someone doesn't agree with you. :thumbsdow

I wasn't belittling Hilsborough, I am not looking for a fight either, I'm just correcting you with your opinion about one of the best managers English football has ever seen, I put him up there with the other greats such as your own Shankly.
I may not have agreed with everything Shanks said, but I wouldn't then post saying that he was nonsense.
As a matter of interest where you at the game at Hilsborough and the replay afterwards at Old Trafford ? I have never been able to forgive Liverpool fans for their attitute towards Forest fans at Old Trafford, so my opinions may be somewhat coloured by that.
 
Yeah, I was there, you could see the trouble coming a mile off.
Disaster waiting to happen.

I don't want to talk anymore about it if that's ok? But just so people understand what I'm saying and it's not just me, I found this article from the Daily Mirror:

WHY CLOUGH JEERS WERE SO JUSTIFIED
Sep 25 2004

THERE was much outrage at Liverpool fans booing the announcement of Brian Clough's death at Old Trafford on Monday.

One commentator claimed they were dancing on the grave of a great man they never knew. But the so-called great man was merely reaping what he had sewn.

Put bluntly, Clough had been dancing on the graves of 96 people he never knew for over a decade, making money and hardening his controversial image along the way. Here's why.

In 1994, five years after the Hillsborough disaster, a game at which Clough was present, he wrote in his autobiography: "I will always remain convinced that those Liverpool fans who died were killed by Liverpool people."

It was pointed out to him by horrified families that Lord Justice Taylor had vindicated the fans, but the great man would not relent. Indeed on the Clive Anderson chat show he went even further. It wasn't the police, he said. It was the fans. "They were drunk. They killed their own."

The hurt caused by this grossly insensitive ignorance, to people who had largely admired Clough for his anti-Establishment views, was deep. Here was a major figure, an integral part of this appalling disaster, who had a chance to make a difference as the families fought for justice. Yet all he wanted to make was money.

Bereaved families followed him on his book tour, begging for a public retraction, but he offered nothing but contempt. Then suddenly, 11 years after the disaster, he decided to "express my regret for the hurt caused" because "investigations have made me realise I was misinformed."

So what brought about the Damascene conversion? A study of the The Taylor Report? A private dick trawling through South Yorkshire Police files? Not quite. He was given a column by Four-Four-Two magazine, causing Liverpool fans to call for a boycott, which made the editor tell Clough he needed an apology if he wanted to carry on working.

And, possibly because newspapers were hardly queueing up to buy his opinions in 2001, the champagne socialist realised the timing might be right. Thus his expression of "regret."

It was cynical, selfish and all about money and image. Which is exactly how a set of fans who once loved the man had come to see him. Clough had said that when he died he wanted no fawning epitaphs, just honesty. At Old Trafford on Monday, he got it. And deserved it
 
Yes we all remember that. Brian did speak a couple of truths there by saying that a lot of them turned up very late and drunk and were pushing to get in, but he went too far with the rest of his comments. I was normal really to leave the pub as late as possible and get to the ground just in time :D
I was talking about Liverpool fans attitude towards us at Old Trafford in the rescheduled match, that was the final straw for a lot of fans as far as Liverpool were concerned, hence the bad feeling that a lot of us still have. We had to stand through "You'll never walk alone" and sing along with you, thousands of Forest fans had been actively involved in collecting money for the appeal and doing as much as they could, and the first thing we hear after the kickoff was "we hate Nottingham Forest" etc etc. That was not the time to be singing those songs.
 
Istanbul_Kop said:
Non Liverpool fans (except a fair few Evertonians) will never understand the true effect Hillsbororugh had on the city and the football club. Especially those personally affected.

Are you saying the whole of Liverpool know nothing about football?

Continue to kiss mod arse if you please, it doesn't bother me. Make your generalisations and sweeping comments.

Clough might as well have danced on the 96 graves with his misinformed and idiotic comments.

I'm signing you all up for a subscription the the Sun.
No, they won't. But then I doubt many people will understand those the feelings of any city thats suffered a major tragedy. What bugs some people is that Liverpool fans seem to think they have a monopoly on grief or that Liverpool is 'special' in that sense. It isn't. Living nearby I fully appreciate the sensitivity of the subject, and I too was appalled by many of the comments made at the time.

Talking of sweeping statements, I never said for one minute the whole of Liverpool knows nothing about football. Evertonians are often very clued up about the game. However, from my, pretty wide experience (plenty of my mates are red noses) the average Liverpool fan is pretty ignorant about anything bar their own team.

Sign me up for a Sun subscription? :rolleyes: This is classic of why people get fed up with this BS. I see people all over Merseyside reading the Sun, yet still maintain this charade that it's 'taboo material'. Give me a break.............

As for mod 'arse kissing' what a pathetic comment.:thumbsdow
 
Istanbul_Kop said:
Brian Clough was nonsense.

I bet if Clough were in his prime today he could choose which club he managed. His record speaks for itself. No money, no great players, no big club, and he still won the European Cup- and retained it. And won the league with another club, too. Kind of puts into perspective Ferguson's achievements with all the money he had to spend and still only won Europe once in a year when they didn'treally qualify. Clough didn't need to spend to make teams great, unlike all managers today.
And Cloughie smacked Keane round the head and lived to tell the tale. Good on him- didn't hit him hard enough though.

And don't forget Cloughie's record as a player:
Nearly 300 games, 271 goals.
I've just read his biography again. Undoubtedly the greatest footballing brain ever. Bar none.
Leeds' loss was Forest's gain- and I'm a Leeds fan.
 
Liverpool fans, the shining beacon to all fans lol.

Clough was a genius ,and for the most part told it how it was .
 
CFC1 said:
At last. You've been found out. And by a MOD at that. Priceless!:rotfl:

Yeah,true colours..thank :censored: he's not a true representation of the Liverpool fans.
 
av2diefor said:
Yeah,true colours..thank :censored: he's not a true representation of the Liverpool fans.

Get a grip.

I think you'll find I am indeed, the everyman (even if someone disagrees with me on here).

lostinspace, his footballing credentials are not in question. I question his morality as a man.

CFC1 said:
Mate, that's your modus operandi! :D

:rotfl: It's true, but it's all playful and bantiful until someone takes it too far and actually means it:thumbsdow
 
So can I question how Liverpool fans can not forgive Clough for this yet they expect the people of Turin to forgive and forget the fact that so many of their people were killed by Liverpool supporters ?
Edit - I've asked to be removed as a moderator for this forum so that I can just post my own thoughts rather than people mistaking anything for moderating and so reflecting the thoughts of AVForums. Therefore people can't be accused of "kissing moderator ass" anymore.
 
Yes, I wondered when the Heysel card would come out. It always does with people like you. I suppose Hillsborough was justice for Heysel as well?:thumbsdow

The answer is, we don't forget and we don't expect to be forgiven. But we have been punished, and everyone else was punished as well. The stadium was dilapidated, do you expect a wall to move if you push up against it? We brought it up clear as day against Juventus when we won the Champions League, we didn't expect to be forgiven, but we were keen to say sorry (in a genuine manner I may add).

Whereas Heysel was a shameful day and a tragedy as well, Hillsborough was just a tragedy. People like Clough tried to make it shameful as well. It sickens me that he perpetuated such lies to sell his book (of lies) and then retracted them (years after evidence proved he was wrong) so he could make yet more money.

I'm sorry for his family, and Nigel especially, but there were no tears on Meresyside when Clough died, in fact, there were a few smiles.

Now, youv've made you position clear. You won't convince me otherwise, you'vce already said your biased against us and your going to back Clough whatever...so what else can I say?

It's a shame you belittled Hillsborough and brought Heysel into it, but I've heard it all before frmon Mancs and even Evertonians (we ended their European dream don't you know), I know the type of person that says that in real life, so I'm building an adequate assumption of the type of person you are...and I tell you, it's not favourable.

You can do what you want with your mod status, it's not your fault people feel the need to brownose...
 
I did not belittle Hilsborough - don't you read what other people post ? Forest fans never received and apology from Liverpool fans for the treatment they received in the replayed match.
 
Istanbul_Kop said:
..... so I'm building an adequate assumption of the type of person you are...and I tell you, it's not favourable.

You can do what you want with your mod status, it's not your fault people feel the need to brownose...


...And that's playful & bantiful?...... :eek:
 

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