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Iscan Ultra

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by dazzer123, Jun 27, 2003.

  1. dazzer123

    dazzer123
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    Hi wondering if anyone could help me with some questions about my iscan ultra, recently purchased one but after initially thinking it had made a big improvement to my picture now im not so sure.

    There is definitely a big improvement in the colour, but my biggest gripe's are with solarization and compression artifacts when viewing sky and now im not so sure that it is improving that part of my problem. I have been providing the signal to the iscan via a jstech rgb2yuv box and then sending the iscan signal via the dsub to my plasma and yes the chroma filter is set to on.

    My questions are 1. What is the best way of sending the signal to the plasma vga or component via breakout cable.

    2. Are there any essential settings for the iscan that i should know about that may improve the picture.

    As i say my major problem is with the artifacts on sky and it is this that i would like to reduce the most.


    Toshiba 42pw16, Js Tech rgb2yuv, iscan ultra
    ultra
     
  2. Dutch

    Dutch
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    Come in StooMonster! ;)

    Steve
     
  3. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    LOL. :rotfl:

    Too late. Too tired. Will check back again after weekend. :zonked:

    StooMonster
     
  4. dazzer123

    dazzer123
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    Any help would be appreciated, one other thing I wanted to mention although it sounds a bit strange my sky picture may seem bearable in the day but for some reason at night it seems to go blocky don’t know what that is all about. When the wife watches Coronation Street the opening scenes where the camera from over the street gradually zooms in the picture is horrendous blocks up big time.
     
  5. vonhosen

    vonhosen
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    Signal varies at different times of the day & yes Coronation Street is generally poor.
     
  6. briandzo

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    dazzer123

    I have a similar setup im also supplying the iscan with componet and using a breakout cable to the plasma (YUV also).

    Unfortuneatly u cannot make detail when its not there to start with.

    Sky channels are compressed when broadcast with varying levels of compression.
    If you have a PC then you may be familiar with jpg's.
    try really compressing a picture down to a few bytes and then re viewing. There will be loss . something has to give.

    ive noticed sky movies to be very good. along with CH5.
    problem channels/programs seems to be the biggest money earners. eg eastenders and corrie are well compressed. and you get crazy horrid artifacts.

    As said already the opening credits to corrie are really lousy and you can see compression at its best (eg horrid image)

    these are on everyones sets whether plasma or CRT.
    There just easier to spot on a large plasma.

    the iscan is improving things by upto 50% by deinterlacing the image. You may not notice the improvement, but it is there. I have found the iscan to have both advantages and dissadvantages. the dissadvantages are that it sometimes 'frame judders'. Again this appears to be when watching the what seems heavier compressed programs.

    Until we get uncompressed broadcasts (never), we are going to continue experienceing dodgy images. Any large screen viewer will see these errors.

    Our displays can give us fantastic images. Really very sharp high quality viewing. But in all cases its down to the source material. If its poor to start with then it will remain poor.

    Most users glote on about when i play a dvd its just amazing.
    Well again its all down to the quality of the DVD your watching. There are loads of very poor dvd's where they can look much poorer than your UHF tv signal.

    An example i recently watched, is a Finish produced region 1 film called 'ambush'. a great film but the dvd transfer was the worst ive ever seen. not much better than camcorder quality. Anyone sat watching this with me, would have gone away thinking plazy displays are naff. Whereas if Id played them 'when trumpets fade (4:3 unfortuneatley) they would have been blown away by the resolution they were seeing.

    If you want to see program material that exploits the iscan then i suggest you look very closely at peoples flesh tones. There faces look like photographs, you can see every blemish and hair on there face. An interlaced image will shimmer very slightly as they move around. The deinterlaced image will remain sharp.
     
  7. dazzer123

    dazzer123
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    briandzo

    Thank's for your reply interesting stuff and I will try to bear it all in mind, I could do with another good set of component leads I am using ixos cable’s from the Iscan to the plasma but I am only using the cable’s supplied with the Iscan from my rgb2yuv box to the iscan
    This is a situation that needs to be rectified as soon as possible I think I was just concerned that I may not be getting the best I can from my iscan.

    Two more question’s though I am currently using a cheapish vga to component lead from my iscan to the plasma and would like to know where I could get a reasonably priced replacement of reasonable quality and also when using this breakout cable my plasma tells me that it is displaying a 625p signal is this correct.
     
  8. briandzo

    briandzo
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    625P is correct. this confirms your plasma is displaying a PAL progresive signal. If it wasnt it would display 625i .

    You can have breakout cables made to measure.
    send an email to Joe at
    http://www.tmfsolutions.co.uk/

    measure your lenghs carefully.

    mine cost somewhere between £50 and £80
     
  9. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    In order to minimise solarisation and posterisation the video processor should have its front panel controls set accurately before the plasmas are. If you have a source device with brightness/contrast/colour etc it should be set correctly before the video processor etc....

    You can actually get a nice picture from Corry....well you could before Karen left;)

    Sky boxes have crushed dynamic range coming out of them due to weirdo floating black level. I am going to be testing a device to try and help this and may make it available as a power buy if it works. In the meantime set the contrast of the box to low.

    More news as it happens,

    Gordon
     
  10. Dutch

    Dutch
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    "You can actually get a nice picture from Corry....well you could before Karen left;) "

    Nice one, Gordon! :laugh: Yeah, but there's still Candice....:p

    Steve
     
  11. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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  12. symanski

    symanski
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    But anything that's taking a picture in should refer back to the black level. Sky boxes are, from what I've seen, ac coupled, but Nokia have a +1.5V off set on all video lines. Your display then has to adjust for each of these, normally by ac coupling internally and then adjusting to the black level. Or atleast this is my understanding. Are you noticing something different?

    Before getting too off topic, I'm using the iScan at the moment for my DVD player as I get better results via this, but for Sky going direct via a component converter. I'll probably change the system over again before the end of the week....

    All the best,

    Dr John Sim.
     
  13. dazzer123

    dazzer123
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    Some interesting replies, but can anyone tell me which connection is better on my plasma from the iscan dsub or component my concern is that I have the iscan connected for over a week now and am finding it difficult to see any difference in picture quality at all. Yes the colour is nice but other than that I can see no improvement ie: I still have lots of jagged edges on text and on objects like if some one opens a car door it looks like a series of blocks, I thought these were the inherent interlaced problems the iscan were supposed to remove.

    Also another feature I am a little disappointed about is the chroma filter I can see absolutely no difference whether it is switched on or off. Now another problem entirely going a little off thread but maybe someone can help me with this problem when on the component input of my tosh 42pw16 I seem to have lost all options for aspect ratio and it seems to have locked it self into zoom mode 4.3, just and 16.9 have disappeared anyone have any ideas.
     
  14. symanski

    symanski
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    dazzer123,
    which do you think is the best? That's what really counts. Certainly, the iScan can improve motion, but a direct connection may give a shaper image. It's really down to what you want and what you're happy with.

    Not sure why the Tosh isn't allowing you to change zoom modes. Since it's a clone of the Panasonics, it should allow aspect ration changes. Does it come up with any on-screen information?

    All the best,

    Dr John Sim.
     
  15. dazzer123

    dazzer123
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    symanski
    Regards connection i have used vga to component in the form of a breakout cable supplied by your self vga to 5 bnc with rca adapters on it, i just did not connect the h+v sync connections the picture was not to bad but i was getting like a strange effect on text where as the text on screen would look a bit liney in other words as if each piece of text was made up of say four horizontal lines and theese lines were very visible but i wondered if a more expensive cable may cure this.

    Dont want to spend a fortune on cables though unless i know it will make a difference, regards my aspect ratio problem yes it is a panny clone and formely when using component i had just, 4.3, 16.9 and zoom modes they all seem to have dissapeared and now i only have zoom mode strange.
     
  16. StooMonster

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    You may find that your plasma screen's downscaling of iScan Ultra's 576p to 480p (your screens physical pixel rows) is causing some of these problems -- and you not seeing an improvement in picture quality. Remember, this downscale is throwing away 20% of the PAL progressive picture information.

    I've heard and read a few people say the same thing, they usually also say they can't see a difference PAL progressive DVD players make on their screens too.

    To test the chroma filter go to Sky News, they have a big logo at the bottom of the screen that's a red curve. Without chroma filter it looks jaggy, but with filter it's a smooth curve. If not, again it could be the downscaling of your screen.

    StooMonster
     
  17. zmbq

    zmbq
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    Will using an iScan box (Pro or Ultra - don't know yet but it doesn't really matter) affect the display's ability to translate a 4:3 image to a 16:9 image?
     
  18. briandzo

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    i use the ultra,
    and this doesn't effect the displays ability to switch ratio's.
     
  19. miniman

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    I use the ultra with a 503mxe and it doesn't affect my ability to change the screen aspect ratios.
     
  20. SherrifJWPepper

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    Cant you set the Iscan to output 480p ? otherwise whats the point :confused:
     
  21. zmbq

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    Oh! Can plasmas with higher resolutions handle 576p better (I'm talking specifically about the Fujitsu P50XHA, which has a 1366x768 resolution, but is only said to support 480p, 720p and 1080i or something similar)?
     
  22. StooMonster

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    It converts 480i to 480p (i.e. NTSC interlaced to NTSC progressive) and 576i to 576p (i.e. PAL interlaced to PAL progressive) extremely well, better than most deinterlacers built into screens and some prog-scan DVD players.

    It does not convert 576i (Sky digital, cable, etc) to 480p.

    If your screen has 480 rows of pixels in it's vertical resolution, it will receive the 576p signal (576 rows of progressive video) and downscale it to 480 rows -- thus removing 20% of the picture information. This is true of all PAL sources to 480 rows displays and is not limited to iScan Ultra.

    StooMonster
     
  23. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    Yes much. Upscaling is not a problem at all. It's done by almost every plasma in the horizontal dimension, e.g. changing DVD's 720 pixels wide to say 852 pixels wide.

    That Fujitsu is built from Panasonic glass, but with Fujitsu electronic. It may be an oversight in the site listing the specifications if it does not list 576i/p (it may say PAL elsewhere).

    StooMonster
     
  24. zmbq

    zmbq
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    So actually, how do screens with 768 rows or 1,024 rows handle a 576-row image? You can't simple double the lines, and doubling every other line would look funny. What do they do?

    I guess they keep the 'p' or 'i' of the signal when they do whatever it is they do - right?
     
  25. StooMonster

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    All screens have built in deinterlacing to turn an i into a p -- the point with the iScan Ultra, or any external video processor (like a scaler), is that they do it so much better than screen's internal chipset.

    Scaling 576 to 768 rows, or to 1024 rows is easy and effective -- there's a great image people often use to show this, of an american flag in original pixels and then scaled up but I can't find it. It's done the same way Adobe Photoshop would increase an image size; with Bi-cubic or Bi-linear Interpolation, or Nearest Neighbour sampling. Essentially you can scale upwards without distorting images -- they are techniques used in the publishing / production / video worlds for years.

    1024 row plasmas are a type of screen called ALiS -- they are an interlacing plasma display, rather than a progressive display. Search this forum for the term ALiS for more information / pros and cons.

    StooMonster
     
  26. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    dazzler123

    Your various posts seem to be rather confusing as to what cables you are or are not using - in one you say you have a good quality YUV cable between the Ultra and the display and in same message you say you need a good quality VGA cable between the Ultra and the display.

    The Ultra only has one output socket (if we ignore the DVI out for now) - the 15 Pin D-Sub connector and you use the Ultra menu selector to switch between YUV or RGB (with SYNC on G or H+V) to set the output type.

    Possibly you've gotten the system a tad confused whilst trying out all the various permutations.

    01. iScan Ultra output:
    RGB (via 15 Pin D Sub) or YUV (via 3RCA) on your Toshiba is not going to look a whole lot different from each other; though with RGB you are going to loose the 'Just' stretch mode.

    02. 'D-Sub' to 5BNC cable + 3adapters for YUV:
    Something's wrong with your set up - using the R+G+B wires from the 15 Pin to 5BNC cable alone will not be giving you YUV; do you happen to also have an S-Video or Composite feed from your Digibox (or any other video source) attached to the display (even via your AV amp).

    03. Your Set-up:
    I suspect your looking at either -
    RGB with SYNC on video - where you also have a 'video' signal from your Digibox going into the plasma. See above.

    or

    RGB with SYNC on Green - possibly why the strange mode lock and picture distortions.

    04. Input output settings:
    Assuming you have the correct cables:
    15Pin to 5BNC or 5RCA for RGB(HV)

    or

    15PIN to 3BNC or 3RCA for YUV (different cable assembly from above)

    You need to ensure you select the correct output on the Ultra - YUV or RGB (with SYNC on H&V) and the correct input on the Plasma YUV or RGB (with SYNC on H&V).

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  27. SherrifJWPepper

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    Very informative Stoo, thanks

    So idealy to get the best PQ I need to be watching NTSC DVD's as there will be no scaling done by the plasma.

    Will 576p from the Iscan less 20% of the info removed by downscaling look better than 576i converted by my plasma :confused:

    Anybody have an Iscan on a PW5?
     
  28. dazzer123

    dazzer123
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  29. jmack

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    hi dazzer

    just noticed we have simular setups i have a toshiba 42wp16 and on monday i will be getting my iscan ultra , i will be using it for ntl digital , my dvd will be staying connected to the component imput on the plasma (no need to change that) so will be using 15pin vga to vga on plasma,

    if you would post or pm me your settings would be a great help and any tips ?

    does the iscan add more lip sync problems ? ive orderd a audio delay box from joe anyway ,

    received my js tech rgb to component box so this weekend i have been messing with the rgb 2 vga converter and rgb to yuv converter and i think the vga box is much better picture . hopefully when i put the iscan in between the ntl and plasma vga imput it will be even better

    anyone need a js tech rgb to vga box?

    cheers for any help;) ;)

    ps sorry another ?
    if i connect the iscan to vga do i have to select RGB in the plasma menu ? and will this affect the dvd player i have connected to plasma component imputs? hope not.

    or do i select rgb on the iscan and leave the plasma sellected to component?

    cheers
     
  30. dazzer123

    dazzer123
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    jmack

    The vga port on your plasma is rgb only and has no effect on your yuv inputs on your plasma, so no it will not affect your dvd player you are running on component.

    My the first time i have answerd a question on the forum now i feel all clever. :clap:
     

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