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iScan HD to PW7/PHD7 through DVI?

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by sparkz, Nov 12, 2004.

  1. sparkz

    sparkz
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    I'm getting a TH42PHD7 with iScan HD soon but am wondering how I can get a picture I can modify the colour etc on?

    The Panny doesn't allow changes on the vga input (if that's what you call it?). Also, I was told that the DVI input on the Panny doesn't work with the iScan. Although I read in another thread that it may be just an issue with the ultra.

    What's the score here? Anyone tried it? What's the best way of going from the iScan to the Panny?

    Usefully, the iScan doesn't seem to allow HUE changes on a PAL signal so doing at the Panny end seems the only way. Unless I missed something there?

    I'm not too sure what other Panny's have the same type of input card but presumeably some of the older ones would have the same issue with the DVI card?

    Thanks for any input...

    Mark
     
  2. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    sparkz

    Did you 'dealer' tell you the DVI Input is a NoNo with the iScanHD? If your unsure about setting up the kit ask your dealer to do it for you.

    Are you aware there is now the choice of iScanHD and the NEW iScanHD+?

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  3. sparkz

    sparkz
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    Thanks Joe, yes I was told that the DVI with the iScanHD was a dodgy. Because of some issue with the DVI - couldn't sync the picture correctly or something. Saw a thread elsewhere though saying it was only an issue with the Ultra?

    Yes, I am aware of the HD+. Didn't seem relevant for the moment. The main difference seems to be with HD pictures which the ordinary unit just passes through. Well something along those lines.

    No problem with how to connect just wanted to get a connection I can configure 100% wither on the iScan or Panny.

    Regards
    Mark
     
  4. MAW

    MAW
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    Your problem is due to the lack of 50Hz support on DVI. You can make it all work at 60Hz, but you will see a certain amount of judder on pans. You are better off with VGA TBH, the dvi is more hassle than it's worth.
     
  5. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello sparkz

    The key difference between am HD and an HD+ is the ability of the HD+ to Input, Process and Output HDCP encrypted signals.

    If you were to add an HDMI or DVI with HDCP equipped source to your system you will be 'limited' to using the Analogue outputs of that source if you want to scale and process the signal using the iScanHD.

    HDCP encrypted signal can, as you say, be 'passed through' the iScanHD but that sort of defeats the purpose of such a device for those with HDMI sources.

    The iScanHD+ can Input certain SD and HD signals from HDMI and DVI with HDCP sources and process and scale the signals before reapplying the HDCP encryption and outputting via DVI.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  6. Evil Engineer

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    I was seriously considering buying a similar set up based around a TH50PHD7.

    So let me see if I've got this right. What we're saying is that the DVI card cannot accept 720/50p or 1080/50i inputs and is therefore likely to be INCOMPATIBLE with any proposed european Hi-Def broadcasts from Sky et-al !

    Does this also apply to the HDMI card and what happens when a DVD player such as the Denon 3910 is presented with a PAL disc? Does the player reformat the output to 60 Hz ?

    That's put me right off, I can tell you. I'm not spending four grand on a HD display with all-digital connections only to be limited to analog input with any next-gen Sky box.
     
  7. MAW

    MAW
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    This does not apply to the HDMI card, would you like an HDMI spec, or are you not that sad! It's extremely tedious, but usefully it lays down a minimum standard, and if it is labelled HDMI and accepts HD signals (it will) then it must take 720/50 and 1080/50. DVI is simply a computer digital interface, they can make it accept whatever the hell they like. BUT! HDMI is likewise under no obligation whatever, to support 1366.768 at any frquency, and is very very unlikely to. One is for video, one is for PC.
     
  8. sparkz

    sparkz
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    MAW:

    I'm amazed that the DVI card doesn't support 50Hz. Isn't that a bit basic? I thought the issue was more to do with the iScan not generating the right signals? Certainly, vga is the intended connection although I was just a bit disappointed that the Panny doesn't seem to allow colour adjustment on this input. Unless I got that wrong?

    Joe:

    Originally, I was going for HDMI (player and input card) but I decided to hold back on that for the moment. I know the HD+ is coming out soon but it probably wouldn't be of any use to me for a while yet.

    There's mention that the HD can upgraded to a plus although there's not much choice in where it's done outside US (Holland). As it happens I expect what will hapen is my brother in law, who buys most of my kit of me, will take the HD and I'll get what ever's the biz at the time.

    Initially, I was very keen to get everything that was HD ready but there's seems to be many issues still to sort out. I was talking to Panasonic about their HDMI card (having been told it may not handle the 50Hz signals at all or not very well) but no one either knew anything about it or couldn't say.

    My only concern at the moment is how I can tweak the colour settings on a vga input?

    Regards
    Mark
     
  9. MAW

    MAW
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    The DVI doesn't accept 50Hz as it's a bit basic for computers, and the DVI board is not actually intended to connect video devices. Any graphics card can do better than 50Hz. If you are intending to use a scaler, picture tweaking is done mostly there. There are more options on Panasonic than are clear, if your name is Gordon. It's not that they keep it secret, it's just too difficult for most of us to understand. I'm in that camp too, I can put the systems together, but when it comes to calibration, I call in an expert with the tools for the job.
     
  10. Evil Engineer

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    Thanks for the offer, but I think I'll be able to get through life without reading the HDMI spec.

    The reason I ask is that I've got a downloaded pdf brochure for the 7-series plasmas and this has a table listing the compatable input signals for each of the terminal boards. The column for the HDMI board lists 720/60p and 1080/60i but specifically omits the 50 Hz equivalents.

    If 720/50p and 1080/50i are listed in the HDMI spec then this table must be wrong because the brochure clearly states "Standards Compliance/HDMI ver 1.1" and sports the HDMI logo. Any deviation from the spec would be a potential trade discriptions issue.

    Does this show the widely held view that DVI(with HDCP) is merely HDMI without the sound and that the two are compatable/interchangeable is wrong ?

    BTW: I'd assumed that the panasonic panel would take the 1280x720 picture from the HMDI connection and scale it upto the 1366x768 panel resolution.
     
  11. sparkz

    sparkz
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    Maw: Thanks for that. That's a lot clearer :)

    I had intended on having a chat with Gordon when it's run in...
     
  12. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Evil Engineer

    The PDF file you have is inaccurate - the HDMI board has more compatibility than the 'pre release' PDF lists.

    I don't have all the info as yet - well I do but the file is corrupted so I cant read it!!!

    Hopefully by Monday we'll have an updated PDF that correctly list's what the HDMI board will accept.

    Best regards

    Joe

    PS The Digital Video portion of an HDMI and DVI signal are close but not exactly the same - see http://www.convergent-av.co.uk/article1.html
     
  13. MAW

    MAW
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    DVI and HDMI are 'interchangeable' as such, but as DVI has no definition apart from the physical plug and the pins used to transmit a signal, there is no guarantee of compatibility with anything. HDMI is precisely defined, which as an engineer, evil or saintly, means something to you. If you get one and it doesn't work as in the specification document, then you would have a case under the trade description act, which is why I will not be selling any till I have got my grubby mitts on one and tried it! Stuff the written spec, get cynical.
     
  14. sparkz

    sparkz
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    I'll not hold my breath to see what standards, the other option, the HD-SDI card supports then. In the brouchures they don't mention HDMI support only HDTV. I could assume that means 720p/50Hz but again there's no mention. Still the card's not cheap :eek: almost the same price as the scaler!
     
  15. Pottsy

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    Help! My dealer assured me that the HD7 and Iscan HD+ would connect fine using a DVI cable... Have I made a horrible error in this setup (yet to be delivered)? Or will everything be fine with a grotty old VGA cable?
     
  16. MAW

    MAW
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    Your dealer speaks with forked tongue, mate! It will be fine on VGA, DVI will show judder, as you are stuck with frame rate conversion issues.
     
  17. Chris5

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    but the new HDMI card should sort this out though... Shouldn't it?
     
  18. darktherapy

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    Ok, now I'm confused. I was considering buying exactly the same setup i.e:

    DVDO iScan HD+
    Panasonic TH-42PHD7

    Is it better to connect using the VGA port on the PHD7? Alternatively, should I get the HDMI Component Board for the PHD7 and connect the DVOIScan HD+ using the DVI output????
     
  19. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    You are confused.......

    HDMI board: Specs may be wrong so we don;t know what is and isn't possible until they are in country.

    DVI Board: (for series seven) Specs are probably wrong (as native pixel for pixel is not listed as supported resolution) so we need to wait till someone who can verify what works gets a chance to play.

    With D6 I know I can get 576@50 AND 1366x768@60 in through DVI using my Lumagen scalers and custom timings.

    With luck I'll have a chance to muck around with one of these this weekend, ie a 7 with DVI board (50")

    G :devil:
     
  20. darktherapy

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    Thanks for the response.

    I guess I will wait until the specs for HDMI boards become clearer. Do you know when these boards will be available in this country? I have been told the DVDO iScan HD+ will be available mid December.
     
  21. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    darktherapy

    Just to clarify - not all Video Processors are created equal; there are options and settings in the Lumagen Vision range that allow folk in the know (Lumagen dealers/installers) to enable signal compatibility with the PHD range that at this time we cant enable with DVDO iScanHD processors.

    The 7 Series HDMI boards are due in Dec 05.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  22. Lizzard

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    Joe,

    Have you got the new PDF document you were talking about so we can sort thing out once and for all if the Panny HDMI card supports 720/50p and 1080/50i?
     

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