iscan hd+ better than visionpro hdp?

Hello all

Likvid - amazing an authority who has never actually used an iScan nor Lumagen product yet knows Lumagen is bad because you cant buy it at a huge discount from the US.

Audio Delay - why do you assume everyone has to buy an external processor? You haven't asked puppy if he has an AV Receiver with audio delay built in; and that's assuming he will require that feature anyway.

VisionDVI vs. iSCan HD+ - why does the SRP determine which products you can compare? I would have thought it was best to look at the customers Requirements and then match them to the features not the SRP.

Lumagen overpriced - you don't have a clue do you!!! How can you make such a statement without having used or lived with one?

Please explain why a DVDO iScanHD+ is better Value than a VisionDVI?

Dale Adams - if you compare Trade vs. SRP then here in the UK the Dealer margin on Lumagen is lower than DVDO.

paul1967 - I think you'll have to ask SKY why FOX is so bad; bypass your Video processor and you'll see its broadcast way out of sync.

damo_in_sale - maybe we need a new button :)

puppy - ignore the HCC 'Test' as anything more than a broad 'guide'. As others have said it wasn't a head to head and didn't put each processor through a series of pre determined tests; its was way too random to be meaningful as far as 'comparing' products.

Also keep in mind the best Video Processors consist of hardware and software to control it - you have to reassess the various Video Processors as new 'firmware' milestones are attained.

I don't recognise the model number you give but do keep in mind your Display is likely to be an ALIS 'interlaced' model and they are by far and away the trickiest to interface with a Video Processor.

What is it your unhappy with in your current set-up and what do you hope for by introducing a Video Processor?

Best regards

Joe
 
Likvid said:
Voodoo for you maybe, not for me. :rolleyes:

Nope, not Voodoo, absolute rubbish. Thats why I bought a great video processor for the price.
 
Joe Fernand said:
damo_in_sale - maybe we need a new button :)

I think so. Perhaps a 'I pressed the wrong button button; :)
 
Likvid said:
Because i have scaled and processed thru my HTPC with Lanczos and seen the results and now i want to know if a scaler will perform the same as i don't want to waste money on something that doesn't perform as good as my HTPC.

But how is the deinterlacing performed? If its just bobbed then you've lost half of the vertical resolution on progressive or film originated stuff. what is your HTPC actually doing?
 
Joe Fernand said:
Hello all

Likvid - amazing an authority who has never actually used an iScan nor Lumagen product yet knows Lumagen is bad because you cant buy it at a huge discount from the US.

Joe

Yes isn't that amazing when people actually have to pay for their stuff you have to compare for price/performance?.

According to U.S magazines the VisionHDP is the contender to HD+.

Joe Fernand said:
Audio Delay - why do you assume everyone has to buy an external processor? You haven't asked puppy if he has an AV Receiver with audio delay built in; and that's assuming he will require that feature anyway.

Joe

Where did i say that? read the posts again.

Joe Fernand said:
VisionDVI vs. iSCan HD+ - why does the SRP determine which products you can compare? I would have thought it was best to look at the customers Requirements and then match them to the features not the SRP.

Joe

Again because people value their hard earned money and want to get the best for their bucks, do you know anything about that being a dealer once again?

Seems like you are used to only one type of customers, those who pay whatever price, just because Joe says it's the best.

Joe Fernand said:
Lumagen overpriced - you don't have a clue do you!!! How can you make such a statement without having used or lived with one?

Joe

What do you know? you are a dealer, not a customer.

Your only ambition is to sell and make profit.

Joe Fernand said:
Please explain why a DVDO iScanHD+ is better Value than a VisionDVI?

Joe

I think Dale Adams can explain that better than me, why don't you ask him?

I am sure there is some thread here where it was explained.

I think your comments are a bit daft and under the table as you can't accept losing deals to people buying for bargains across the Atlantic.:thumbsdow

If i can help people buying their products cheaper i am glad to help.
 
damo_in_sale said:
But how is the deinterlacing performed? If its just bobbed then you've lost half of the vertical resolution on progressive or film originated stuff. what is your HTPC actually doing?

Why don't you figure that out yourself genius?
 
Hello Likvid

Price/Performance - I find it tricky to judge the 'performance' of most things simply by looking at the price and spec sheet.

VisionHDP vs. iScanHD+ - what features (or lack of) of the VisionDVI remove it from comparison with the iScanHD+ for Puppy?

Audio Delay - your post at 12:15 yesterday says 'you need to buy another box'; maybe you forgot you brought that one into the price equation.

Best for their bucks - how do you know that any of these devices will in any way enhance Puppy's system? Your the one pushing someone to make a purchase not me - I haven't seen you ask one question or make a single statement on an actual benefit Puppy is likely to receive by adding a Video Processor to his (or her) system.

Just because Joe says so - again please point out where in my post I was recommending Puppy to make a purchase.

Lumagen overpriced - you made the statement not me; all I asked was for you to justify the statement.

Make a Profit - is that bad?

Better value - again you make the sweeping statement about Lumagen being bad and DVDO being good; not Dale, not me, not anyone else just you!!!

Losing Deals - which 'Deal' am I loosing? Someone asked for advice on Video Processing - not for advice on where was the lowest cost place to purchase a particular unit.

glad to help - I'm sure if Puppy decides that an iScanHD+ is his (or her) best option then they would be daft not to go with your advice on where to purchase; after all you have so much experience of integrating an iScanHD+ with Puppy's Display, DVD-R, Digiobox and AV Receiver that it will be a two minute affair to achieve visual nirvana (I take it you are offering your services Free of Charge to go configure the system for Puppy!!!)

Best regards

Joe
 
Likvid said:
......because people value their hard earned money and want to get the best for their bucks, do you know anything about that being a dealer once again?

Seems like you are used to only one type of customers, those who pay whatever price, just because Joe says it's the best.

Having read the (edited) above i strongly felt the need to post on this thread in Joe's and others defence.

Joe and the other dealers on here very much understand about peoples hard earned bucks, know dont because they can remenber first starting out in business and being on the bread line for X months until they became succesfull. Also in my dealings with Joe (and i still have never bought anything from him :hiya: ) i have always found him to be very helpful with the options in my price range and non pushy.
What really angers me about the above statement though, is the sheer support and help that Joe gives on here as do the other dealers and you implying that he (they) are only doing it for a sale. What Rot! These processors are tricky beasts to set up (for me anyhow :rolleyes: ) and the support i and other have receaved on here from joe and other dealers has been a life saver, and they knew at the time that they would not got a sale from it, but simply wanted to help.
Perhaps you should look at the web address of this site again and note that it is an AV Forum (for AV lovers) not a Dealers web page!
 
Lizard said:
Having read the (edited) above i strongly felt the need to post on this thread in Joe's and others defence.

Joe and the other dealers on here very much understand about peoples hard earned bucks, know dont because they can remenber first starting out in business and being on the bread line for X months until they became succesfull. Also in my dealings with Joe (and i still have never bought anything from him :hiya: ) i have always found him to be very helpful with the options in my price range and non pushy.
What really angers me about the above statement though, is the sheer support and help that Joe gives on here as do the other dealers and you implying that he (they) are only doing it for a sale. What Rot! These processors are tricky beasts to set up (for me anyhow :rolleyes: ) and the support i and other have receaved on here from joe and other dealers has been a life saver, and they knew at the time that they would not got a sale from it, but simply wanted to help.
Perhaps you should look at the web address of this site again and note that it is an AV Forum (for AV lovers) not a Dealers web page!

Here Here. I agree whole heartedly. What people fail to realise (me a while back) is that the dealers on here offer there time and vast experience to help fellow forum members and while they do have their own opinions about "which is best" they always follow opinions up with technical knowledge and experience.

Everybody who owns a product believes in their own mind that it's the best but to be honest I now realise that my HD+ is probably not the best out there but good enough for my needs.

I would encourage anyone to read quotes from all the dealers here (as well as a few other senior members I could name) and they may improve their own knowledge along the way.

Keep up the good work guys:thumbsup:

Regards
Martin
 
ashworthacca said:
Everybody who owns a product believes in their own mind that it's the best but to be honest I now realise that my HD+ is probably not the best out there but good enough for my needs.

Keep up the good work guys:thumbsup:

Regards
Martin

It's nothing wrong with your HD+, just that some people want you to beleive that to generate another sale to you for a Lumagen or something they beleive is good cash right now.

I have watched these threads for a while and couldn't keep quite because most often some of the dealers here doesn't want to help if you not bought the product from them and that has happened to alot of users here and you can see the red line.

Most often this is not a problem with new users coming onboard here.

How many people haven't asked for timings for their displays and no one wanted to help? Gordon has been very helpful but that's the only one really, he might not like grey imports either but he is professional in his behaviour compared to Joe that runs out and make a fool out of himself in a public forum for not liking it, very unprofessional.

This must be the only forum that only helps if you buy something at the same time.

As i said, its a dealers forum, and this talk about support and stuff is just nonsense as most people who buys a scaler knows how to calibrate them to a pretty good picture, not ISF quality, but pretty darn close.
 
Likvid: I think you'll find that Joe has given off-line and online support to folk who have bought DVDo products DIRECT from the distributor. This has cost him money and can actually affect his ability to offer the level of service he wishes to the folk who do actually pay him for products or service.

This is getting a little off topic now....

Gordon
 
Likvid said:
As i said, its a dealers forum, and this talk about support and stuff is just nonsense as most people who buys a scaler knows how to calibrate them to a pretty good picture, not ISF quality, but pretty darn close.

By the amount of "help me!!" posts/threads I would say most people are far from able to setup a scaler properley. By your comment I doubt you have even seen a calibrated display.

This forum has always been a forum full of dealers and manufacturers - the only way Joe Public can get the amazing wealth of information this forum contains is by having this mixture. If there were no dealers, manufacturers, calibrators, programmers, distributors, designers there would be no "insider" input nor indeed advice for those real tricky questions that only an experienced professional would have come accross. It would be a simple discussion forum with no real technical fact or advice to draw on, just lots of recycled comments and hopeful suggestions. This may sound ideal to you, but some do actually appreciate factual advice rather than hopeful conjecture.

Everyone here has helped posters who have not bought through them (or indeed by some of these weird and wonderful names wouldn't even know if they were past customers or not!!). But I fear they will no longer because people like you give us more grief than it's worth. This ridiculous paranoia that anyone with a commerical interest in AV obviously has under-handed motives is turning a healthy discussion on quite cutting-edge products into a dealer witch hunt. I know I for one am completely put off helping when threads turn sour like this one. Few more specialists drop off the radar and who's gonna help you set up your grey imports???

My 2c from a retailer perspective anyway. Obviously worth nothing more than 2c...

Check Please!
 
Just from my point of view I have imported stuff before(speakers) the experience was good.Would I do it again?
No.I like to be able to talk to people who care about what they sell and are able to help,so something like a scaler which is way advanced for me I would buy from a specialist in the uk.
Just my 2c as well though,one man's wine,another mans water,etc....
 
Likvid said:
I have watched these threads for a while and couldn't keep quite because most often some of the dealers here doesn't want to help if you not bought the product from them and that has happened to alot of users here and you can see the red line.

I actually feel the few dealers here give excellent advice, which is well contolled by forum rules, in fact perhaps too well controlled. I have never had anyone not wanting to help for commercial reasons, whether they get a sale or not. Moderation is well done on this forum and can only benefit fron Nicks 'control'.

Likvid said:
This must be the only forum that only helps if you buy something at the same time.

I think this is very wide from the truth.

Likvid said:
As i said, its a dealers forum, and this talk about support and stuff is just nonsense as most people who buys a scaler knows how to calibrate them to a pretty good picture, not ISF quality, but pretty darn close.

I think I have a met a handful of people on my travels around the country who can set up a video processor properly, who are not professionals. Many are VERY wide of the mark. HCPCs are even worse where I think I have seen 2 I rate as doing it really properly, they both use VP now anyway. I have met many who think they are doing it well until they are shown how to do it better. I found it particualrly interesting at Gordons Event 2, where everyone came along to learn about things like video processor, HCPCs, projectors. These guys were largely the hard core and I think the vast majority came away much better informed. Some 'rooms' were run by professionals (like Joe and Gordon), other by knowledgeable technical people. All was run on a weekend using peoples own time (and money) to educate people on what is important.

I find it interesting that the dealers you seem keen on criticising carry both Lumagen and DVDO products and will supply both according to what the requirements are for each customer. They will however ask pertinent questions of a prospective customer to make sure they are buying what the require / need, even if the customer doesn't understand everything at the moment. My own take on this has already been covered above where I think the VisionDVI would make a better long term proposition for the OP. I say this as a DVDO owner and not a Lumagen owner or even, dare I say it a 'retailer'.
 
Likvid,

This particular forum is full of people who are struggling to chose, or use, a scaler. It is also full of experienced users and dealers who give very valuable advice for little or no material gain. They may make a few sales from it, but not enough to justify the time and effort involved. Good advice is hard to come by even when you pay for it, and you get it for free when you come here, but we cannot take that for granted. Please don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Nick
 
welwynnick said:
Likvid,

Good advice is hard to come by even when you pay for it, and you get it for free when you come here, but we cannot take that for granted.
Nick

Nick, that is so very true.
 
Liam @ Prog AV said:
This forum has always been a forum full of dealers and manufacturers - the only way Joe Public can get the amazing wealth of information this forum contains is by having this mixture.

Here here, the combination makes these forums tick :thumbsup:

I for one appreciated Liam's help in particular late last year in my decisions in what I needed if I were to get a new scaler. I am still making my mind up, and saving the cash, but I know where I will be going when the credit card comes out :smashin:

Cheers

Andy
 
I am currently going through the process of setting up a Lumagen on my
home cinema.
I am extremely inexperienced in this area, but, after lots of homework I
decided to go for the Lumagen. At no point did I have Lumagen rammed
down my throat. I decided.
I purchased from Liam. Due to my experience with the equipment, he strongly
recommended that I wait for Gordon to become available, so that it could
be installed correctly. I decided against this advice because I was hoping
to learn a little as I went along. Liam preconfigured my unit for me, and I was
up and running. I am now ironing out a few minor issues with the help of
Liam and Gordon. These guys are superb, answering out of hours phone calls,
e-mails, the full works.
As far as I am concerned, after sales support has been nothing short of
fantastic.
Likvid, you could not be wider from the mark mate.

John.
 
Likvid said:
How many people haven't asked for timings for their displays and no one wanted to help?

How are we supposed to judge how many people haven't done something?

Likvid said:
most people who buys a scaler knows how to calibrate them to a pretty good picture, not ISF quality, but pretty darn close.

I have to admit to being more than a tad sceptical about the ISF business, as out of the box my Lumagen DVI did wonders for my Tosh RPTV (having been initially set by Liam, whom I bought it from). But once Gordon had done his stuff I'd say the picture clarity has improved markedly - something along the lines of a 100% increase, and it really wasn't that bad in the first place. Now I wouldn't have been able to achieve that in a month of Sundays, despite poring over the documentation and other sources trying to get a handle on the thing. It's been the cheapest 'new set/upgrade' I've ever done on a TV, as that's effectively what I've ended up with. I'm very glad I did it.

Regards

Mark
 
I recently purchased a lumagen dvi scaler from liam at progressive av. I set it up to native res on my panny but was not too impressed with scalers performance. I am probably the only person on this forum who did not see better picture quality with a video processor and returned the product to the dealer. Liam has given excellent before and after sales support and advice and has been very understanding. I have also had very good advice from Gordon of convergent without any pressure to buy anyones services or products.

I may not be impressed with scalers but the service and support these guys provide is excellent.
 
in a way, i wish i had never asked this question in the first place, i am even more confused than before!
 
Is your panel an ALiS panel? Perhaps some of the experts could mention what output you'd use from a scaler, res and rate, because I have no idea for these. 1080i maybe?
 
Gordon @ Convergent AV said:
I've used 512P, 1080i and 720P with Alis panels

Gordon

Am I right in thinking that 512p should yield the best results? Or is 1080i better?
 

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