iscan hd+ better than visionpro hdp?

puppy

Standard Member
i have in front of me a copy of home cinema choice, may 2005 in which 4 scallers are tested. dvdo iscan hd+,crystalio vps-2300,cinemateq picture optimiser 2, lumegen visionpro hdp. the results of the test were as follows: iscan hd+5stars,lumegen 4stars,crystalio 3 half stars, cinemateq 3 stars. the iscan came out top in this test, but from reading these forums it would not be first choice, so here is my question: i can get a hd+ for £700, is there a better scaller around at that price, my tv is hitachi pd 425200e,topfield5800 pvr,sony dvd recorder,many thanks. puppy
 

Gordon @ Convergent AV

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
I htink most folk here realise that the review wasn't exactly accurate. The HDP Pro for instance had beta software in it from October of 2004 when they were first given the unit to review. The Lumagen at least has undergone SUBSTANTIAL firmware improvements and the picture quality is not really anything like it was back then. I'll leave it to thers to advise on your own best solutions.....Lumagen VisionDVI is reviewed by HCC next month...no idea what the review actually says though...
Gordon

Gordon
 

Nic Rhodes

Well-known Member
The test was a quite poor one, and doesn't mention little things like the Lumagen software I think from memory was beta!! There are a stack of features that Lumagen added since that 'review' inc HD deinterlacing. I seem to remember a lack of comment of video quality when I read the review which seemed a missed oportunity for a video processor. A bit like reviewing a car without driving it. For me the Lumagen and Crystalio are much better products.
 

Welwynnick

Distinguished Member
If memory serves me right, the HD+ didn't have any digital 480i/576i or 720p/1080i analogue input capability at the time, but this was overlooked by the review. That, and other little things like picture quality. Says it all really.

Just my opinion, Nick
 

binbag

Active Member
The above taken into account; the I-scan did more or cost a lot less than the other units on the review. From that point of view it wasn't the sham that it's being purported to be here.

Would those who have seen the popular scalers in action care to give an objective percentage figure for the improvement in PQ over the HD+ and put the price difference in brackets afterwards. I don't think anybody would argue that there are better products than the I-scan out there but in terms of value I'd say it remains a serious contender for those with limited expenditure.
 

Ultima

Well-known Member
binbag said:
The above taken into account; the I-scan did more or cost a lot less than the other units on the review. From that point of view it wasn't the sham that it's being purported to be here.

Would those who have seen the popular scalers in action care to give an objective percentage figure for the improvement in PQ over the HD+ and put the price difference in brackets afterwards. I don't think anybody would argue that there are better products than the I-scan out there but in terms of value I'd say it remains a serious contender for those with limited expenditure.
I have and iscan HD+ and to be honest the improvement in pictiure quality on sky is brilliant. I would love to see a Lumegan or Crystallio, which are apparently vastly better, to see the results against my HD+.

Regards
Martin
 

Nic Rhodes

Well-known Member
If it was a 'shootout' perhaps the HD+ should have been compared to different (and cheaper) Lumagen models? As it stood it was a 'collection' of models that were largely looked at in isolation and did not cover many of the important issues people need when buying a scaler. None of the models were done justice in my view, HD+ or otherwise, and does not make a good basis for a buying decision. Re percentages, well I don't think this can be done, I for one have current interests in scalers that can do the following:

digital interlaced inputs (SDI and DVI / HDMI)
HD deinterlacing (analogue or digital)
HD processing

It allows good backward compatibility but also future proofs any purchase for a few years yet. This will reduce the field somewhat even now, regardless of any price. If anyone is looking at a HD+, they also need to look at the competition and that would be Lumagen Vision DVI, or a Pixel plasma enhancer.

For me many of the decisions are initially based on specifications, and only later on performance.
 

Likvid

Banned
You can't go wrong with the Iscan HD+, i was considering the Lumagen VisionHDP but the major price difference says a big no to me.....

You get the HD+ for £565 + shipping, the Lumagen VisionHDP cost around £1,295 + shipping.

You must me dumb to not buy the HD+ for that price today, and if you consider the new processing in the Lumagen it is not really necessary today until HD-DVD/Blu-Ray and Sky-HD takes off.

At the time we all have HDTV broadcasts and HD-DVD/Blu-Ray there are more choices on the market and lower prices which can process better than todays Lumagen.

My rule is to never buy if you don't need the specific feature today.
 

Nic Rhodes

Well-known Member
Been using HD for 5 years now. The HD community here is surprizingly large.
 

puppy

Standard Member
many thanks for all your opinions, it has helped me a lot. i expect opinions to vary quite a lot with regards to the iscan or any scaler for that matter. would i be correct in saying that it depends on how well it is set up, type of display, quality of source ect,
 

damo_in_sale

Well-known Member
Likvid said:
You can't go wrong with the Iscan HD+, i was considering the Lumagen VisionHDP but the major price difference says a big no to me.....

You get the HD+ for £565 + shipping, the Lumagen VisionHDP cost around £1,295 + shipping.

You must me dumb to not buy the HD+ for that price today

I think you'll find the Lumagen DVI is the product you'd probably want to compair the HD+ to and is at a similar price. I think it's also fair to say that the DVI does more and is still great for HD to, except of course inverse telecine of 1080i- thats what your paying for the HDP for (amongst other things).
I personally think the Lumagen Vision DVI is the best video processor in that price range.
 

Nic Rhodes

Well-known Member
puppy said:
many thanks for all your opinions, it has helped me a lot. i expect opinions to vary quite a lot with regards to the iscan or any scaler for that matter. would i be correct in saying that it depends on how well it is set up, type of display, quality of source ect,

set up is everything, next is support from manufacurers / distributors.
 

Likvid

Banned
damo_in_sale said:
I think you'll find the Lumagen DVI is the product you'd probably want to compair the HD+ to and is at a similar price. I think it's also fair to say that the DVI does more and is still great for HD to, except of course inverse telecine of 1080i- thats what your paying for the HDP for (amongst other things).
I personally think the Lumagen Vision DVI is the best video processor in that price range.

Retail for HD+ in the U.S is $1,499, and the HDP is $1,499

However you can buy the HD+ just around $900 new today.

HD+ got audio delay function which the Lumagens doesn't have which means you need to buy another box for that purpose which adds $150.

I wouldn't say the Lumagen DVI is comparable to the HD+ as they are in different price ranges and the DVI is limited in what you can output, eg 768p and lacking the audio delay function.

I think Lumagens are way overpriced on the market for what you get, i bet it cost them max $100/unit to manufacture and add R&D to that, i don't say Iscans are cheap either but this whole scaler business is alot of profit in for both manufacturers and dealers.

It's no problem if you got cash to spend and don't care what the costs are, but most people spend their cash wisely and look at the best performance/price you can get....
 

Dale Adams

Novice Member
Likvid said:
I think Lumagens are way overpriced on the market for what you get, i bet it cost them max $100/unit to manufacture and add R&D to that, i don't say Iscans are cheap either but this whole scaler business is alot of profit in for both manufacturers and dealers.
While I don't know Lumagen's manufacturing costs, I would be very surprised if they could make even the VisionDVI for $100. (And I know at least a little about what manufacturing costs are for scalers. ;) ) While your perceptions might be true for high-volume consumer electronics, this is typically not the case for low-volume products like video processors. R&D and other overhead costs must be amortized across far fewer units than for a product such as an AVR or DVD player, and so make up a very significant percentage of the end product cost. Also, low-volume manufacturing costs are substantially higher than for higher volume products. Now, dealer margins may be similar for differing products (but I don't really have any hard data on that), but the manufacturer's cost is going to be different.

- Dale Adams
 

Likvid

Banned
Gordon @ Convergent AV said:
Likvid: You may find that you actually do not require audio delay with a Lumagen product. Glad you are happy with your scaler.

Gordon
Actually i haven't bought one yet, but i am heading towards the HD+ as price/performance ratio is so good.;)
 

Nic Rhodes

Well-known Member
Likvid said:
Actually i haven't bought one yet, but i am heading towards the HD+ as price/performance ratio is so good.;)

so what do you use currently?
 

inzaman

Moderator
Gordon @ Convergent AV said:
You may find that you actually do not require audio delay with a Lumagen product.
So there are no lip sync issues with the Lumagen, at all? If so then thats great imo.

Do you know if this is the case with HD input material?
 

Likvid

Banned
Gordon @ Convergent AV said:
Likvid: You may find that you actually do not require audio delay with a Lumagen product. Glad you are happy with your scaler.

Gordon
So you beleive the VisionDVI performs better than HD+ on SDTV signals?

Would it be waste buying a scaler that can handle 1080 when my plasma is native 768?
 

Gordon @ Convergent AV

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Inzaman: That s not what I said. All video processors delay the video. Some more than others. The issue is whether the total amount of delay in the video chain is enough for folk to see a problem. My first plasma was a Pioneer 43MXE. When I used my Lumagens in to it I never noted any lip sync issue. I then changed that plasma to a PWD6 panasonic and immediately noted a lip sync error in the system. Some small changes to my amplifiers set up cured it. Obviously the Panasonic has longer processing time than the Pioneer and when that was combined with the Lumagens own processes it tipped the balance for me.

Likvid: I believe that you need to make your own mind up about that.

I don't think that it is necessarily a waste to purchase a product that can deal with 1080i material when your plasma is native 768. Is it worthwhile having a processor that is able to deal with 576i material when the plasma is only 480P native? Yes it is. You want to de-interlace to 480p/576P/1080P then up/downscale. That's just talking about de-interlacing and scaling. There are also other things scalers do that could help increase image quality of a 1080i source. Fixing colour errors, noise removal etc. I think you really want a video processor that can accept everything you are likely to throw at it and then output that in the best manner for the display device you are using.

Gordon
 

paul1967

Novice Member
I've got aHD+ and very happy with the tv picture ,the 1 prob though is a very bad lip sinc prob on fox news ONLY any ideas why that would be i have not got this prob on the other channels ?.
 

damo_in_sale

Well-known Member
Likvid said:
Amazing that your such an authority on them then.
And what makes you think that 1080i deinterlacing for you 768 line panel would not be a good thing? What do you think your panel would do with 1080i exactly, Voodoo?
 

damo_in_sale

Well-known Member
inzaman said:
So there are no lip sync issues with the Lumagen, at all? If so then thats great imo.

Do you know if this is the case with HD input material?
I keep pressing 'Thanks' instead of 'Quote'. Damn, I even thanked Likvid :eek:
I've never noticed any lip-sync issues with my Lumagen. The worst cabling I use is RGB scart from the Sky+ box, but I suspect S-Video or lesser might require more processing (not tried it though so cannot be sure).
 

Likvid

Banned
damo_in_sale said:
Amazing that your such an authority on them then.
Nice to meet you too.

damo_in_sale said:
And what makes you think that 1080i deinterlacing for you 768 line panel would not be a good thing?
Because i have scaled and processed thru my HTPC with Lanczos and seen the results and now i want to know if a scaler will perform the same as i don't want to waste money on something that doesn't perform as good as my HTPC.

damo_in_sale said:
What do you think your panel would do with 1080i exactly, Voodoo?
Voodoo for you maybe, not for me. :rolleyes:
 

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