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Is your widescreen picture cropped ? or is it just me ?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by rorschach2000, Jan 26, 2003.

  1. rorschach2000

    rorschach2000
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    Hi,

    All my life i've owned a 4:3 tv. Now i just bought a widescreen projector the Sanyo PLV-Z1 and find even though the screen is much wider is still cropped. I'm using the PC as a reference to what I should be seeing.

    The test:

    Star Wars Episode II

    play the scenes 5:57 - 6:01, Jimmy Smit's line "do you really think this is a wise decision under these stressful times?"

    Screen Left there is a blue girl, do you see the full blue girls face or only half ?

    If your only seeing half her face then you widescreen image is being cropped.

    Someone told me that a PC is able to see a wider image but i don't like that answer. I true 16:9 widescreen TV/projector should be showing you the FULL picture.

    Any comments. Am i the only one noticing this.

    Cheers,
    Rorschach
     
  2. mandlebrot

    mandlebrot
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    I think people might need a bit more info before they can help.

    1. Are you actually using the PC to output the image to the PJ?

    2.If using a PC have you got the resolution of the output set to the correct settings and have you set all software settings to Widescreen?

    3. If not what are you using e.g. standalone DVD player?

    4. If using a standalone DVD player, are both the player and the PJ set to the 16:9/Widescreen settings?

    5. What type of leads are you using to connect?

    6. Have you accidently selected some kind of zoom mode on the PJ?

    Some of these might seem silly but you may have overlooked something so check them and if still no joy then post more info and people will try to help has you are correct in that your image should not be cropped in this kind of way.

    Smurfin owns one of these PJ's so he might be able to sort your problem pretty quick;)
     
  3. rorschach2000

    rorschach2000
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    Thanks for the respose,

    I use a stand alone dvd player, Sanyo DC-TS750 . This came with the projector.

    Selecting 16:9 via the dvd player or letterbox has no affect on the width of the image, it simply increases the height of the image in the right proportions so the image does not look squished.

    I use s-video connection. The dvd player does not support component.

    I tested what i should be seeing by playing the dvd on my computer using windvd software. It doesn't matter which dvd I use i notice slight cropping when compared to the pc version. I used episode II as example so someone can confirm what they see is the same as mine or not.

    I can also ouptut my pc to the PJ without problems displaying the full width of the image.

    I select display mode of "FULL" on my projector which is specifically for 16:9 anamorphic dvd's. There is also "normal" mode for 4:3 displays and a zoom mode. This is definately not the problem as i have selected "full" and "normal" modes. What you see does not change only the shape of what you see. ie. box versus rectangle. I do not use zoom mode.

    Also a third test I have on my pc the creative labs dvd dxr2 decoder card. with svideo output for tv. I hooked this up to the projector so I have computer input from the pc similtaneously the svideo is displaying the output of the decoder card. I simply change source from computer to svideo to see the different output. Remember this uses the same video source and switching to svideo is slightly cropped.

    I asked this question on another forum and that poster tested the dvd and said their image was also cropped on their widescreen dvd exactly as i described it.

    To really see what i mean you need to do the episode II test as i described it in the original post.

    Cheers,
    Rorschach
     
  4. rorschach2000

    rorschach2000
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    Another note, i used the THX video test included with the episode II dvd and I could see a perfect circle surrounded by two rectangles which is correct which why i am stumped it is still cropped.

    Cheers,
    Rorschach
     
  5. Kramer

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    It's called "overscan".

    A PC doesn't perform any cropping, so there's 0% overscan.

    Hence it's true that a PC displays "more" picture - 100% of what's on the disc.

    Feed the Z1 via VGA from the PC & you should see "everything".
     
  6. JonMace

    JonMace
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    What projector do you have, there was a post within the last few weeks reguarding over scan on the Sony HS1 which explained how to enter the service menu and alter the overscan. I'm sure its possible to do with other makes
     
  7. severnsource

    severnsource
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    I have just done some checks with my Z1, and it does indeed overscan all round by about 5%. The amount is the same on all inputs, video, s-video and SCART RGB.

    I also tried feeding the PC to it via the VGA input. If you use the internal scaler, for example the PC is set to 1024x768 resolution the projector does not overscan, you see all the PC's screen. However if you try to use the native resolution of 960 x 540 the projector overscans again! I am sure you can get it to work correctly with 1:1 pixel mapping with a bit of messing about with the PC and projector settings.

    So the answer is that if you want to see all of the image on the DVD you will have to use a PC to play the DVDs.

    Bill
     
  8. rorschach2000

    rorschach2000
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    thank you all for your responses. Atleast I know it isn't just me and im not going mad. It's a shame that this is not adjustable I would prefer it without any overscan.

    I will not be using the PC though, the projector came with free dvd player and dolby digital speaker setup so i would lose out on the sound if i go that route. + in PC mode the projector goes into high fan mode every 20 minute when the lamp is on economy mode. It does not do this in normal video mode.

    By the way severnsource do you notice that your Z1 get's very hot to touch?

    Cheers,
    Rorschach
     
  9. beta

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    its not a case of an odd DVD player (no component?? old dvd player or low range model?) cropping a 2.35:1 image to 1.78 by simply cutting the sides off?

    Just a long shot
     
  10. severnsource

    severnsource
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    Rorschach, the Z1 does get warm, but I would not have said to warm; it does have a 130W heater in a rather small box! I hadn't noticed the fan spinning up when I used the PC, and I have played a 90 minute DVD from it.

    beta, the overscan exists on all dvd and svcd formats, you just don't notice the cropping top and bottom on 2.35:1 sources.
     
  11. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost
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    rorschach, overscan is part of the way our TV system is designed I'm afraid.

    Having overscan means there will be some picture loss at the edges, but at the same time you can be guaranteed that a widescreen image will alway fill the width of your screen too.

    I spend some of my time working with CRT projectors that can be set for zero overscan. This works OK for DVD (so far), but with TV transmissions its a nightmare. TV broadcast images don't always fill the screen width; Sky and cable transmissions are even worse, so having overscan hides the framing errors on these images.

    Manufacturers have to design TVs and projectors with overscan when dealing with video images. The alternative would be complaints that the picture had gaps at the sides. It is a compromise, but it's done for the right reasons.

    Regards
     
  12. mandlebrot

    mandlebrot
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    Right so we have now established that its overscan and normal but is there a service menu setting on the Z1 to 0 it should we want to?
     
  13. rorschach2000

    rorschach2000
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    I think i will ask Sanyo if it is possible to set the overscan to zero as i only want to watch dvd's with this projector. I don't care about tv broadcasts even if there is any garbage on the side i can live with it.

    Or if anyone knows how to do this on the Sanyo PLV-Z1 projector please let me know.

    Cheers,
    Rorschach.
     
  14. severnsource

    severnsource
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    I think that the reason domestic TVs overscan is due to the history of domestic TV design; it is not part of the TV system.

    In the early years of TV it was not economically viable to make TVs with regulated power supplies or to design stable, or compensating EHT circuits. The result was that the size of the image varied with mains voltage and picture brightness. Hence, to reduce the visibility of picture size changes it was the norm to overscan domestic TVs. Nowadays it is cheap and easy to make TVs with stable scans, but presumably makers continue to overscan TVs because it reduces customer complaints on the odd occasion when a none standard picture is shown.

    The main broadcasters are pretty careful to ensure that their transmissions comply to the standards and I think blanking errors are quite rare these days.

    The most common cause of size variations is the transmission of a 14:9 picture in a 4:3 raster and the resultant black bars are usually visible even on an overscanned TV.

    Personally I agree with rorschach about the Z1, that it is inexcusable that it overscans. It uses high precision display components and there is no valid reason for it to overscan. They get it right on the scaled PC options, why not on the ordinary TV ones?

    Bill
     
  15. Underscore

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    Appartently, there are horizontal and vertical scaling and position parameters in the Z1 service menu for each video format. Unfortunately, I've not been able to find out which parameter numbers they are (PAL is too far to the left on S-video on mine) but, if anyone is able to find out which parameters they are, it should be possible to remove overscan completely by using them, I would guess. Another intriguing possibility would be the removal of vertical scaling in PAL-P - i.e. accept some overscan and have the middle 545 lines rendered directly on to the LCD with no scaling...

    _
     
  16. severnsource

    severnsource
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    Speaking of service menus, I've been trying to access them on my Z1 using SELECT+INPUT and MENU+INPUT and loads of other combinations but to no avail.

    Is it me doing something stupid, or have Sanyo changed the access method on more recent models.

    What I want to do is get the colour balance right. The user controls affect the black level and midtones so you can't get rid of the excess green in the highlights.

    Any suggestions gratefully received.

    Bill
     
  17. Underscore

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    Try going into the menu immediately after you start the PJ. I hadn't had any joy until I did this. Be warned though, all you get is the ability to alter numbered parameters - with no explanation of what they do. Since I've heard of people causing physical damage to televisions using the service menus, I won't be changing anything until I know what I'm changing...

    _
     
  18. JUS

    JUS
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    rOne tinkers with service menus. He's posted alot of info about them on www.avsforum.com. Go into the search and search for posts by him. I tried just now but they've turned the search off, due to the server being too busy....US lunchtime.

    I have a Tosh 2109 DVD player fed into a Brigtview (via component) and then vga cable into projector. I also get half a blue face....as everyone would expect I guess.

    I'll have another look on avsforum when it's not so busy.


    I have free view. I notice sometimes they broadcast in 4:3 sometimes in 16:9 and occasionally I get a full picture on the left but a black bar on the right!
     
  19. rorschach2000

    rorschach2000
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    severnsource you have to press the buttons simultaneously this is the trick. Pressing one then the other won't work, and you don't have to do it only after it starts up you can do it any time.

    I have no idea what these menu's do as the is no description just numbed items, i know somewhere I can adjust the overscan just a matter of finding someone who knows.

    Rorschach
     
  20. severnsource

    severnsource
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    Thanks for the replies, I'll have another go later.

    There is a database on yahoogroups http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sanyo...bl=1&sortBy=1&sortDir=down&startAt=&prntRpt=1 but it doesn't have much info at the moment, and ISTR that rOne is trying to get hold of a manual; that may help.

    I don't think that I will change any of the settings till I have a good idea of what they are going to do. I doubt that you would damage the projector by fiddling, but you might get it into a non-working mode and unless you have your original settings it could be difficult to get back to a working projector.

    If that link doesn't work this one might http://colinfoster.net/link

    Bill
     
  21. rorschach2000

    rorschach2000
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  22. mandlebrot

    mandlebrot
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    Excellent mate, I'm glad you got it sorted:D :clap:
     
  23. JUS

    JUS
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    :mad: :confused:

    I can't seem to do it. I'm feeding my Z1 via a vga cable (from brightview). I have XGA 1024x768 selected.

    I wrote all my settings down from 297 - 356 and tried changing them all without me seeing any change in the picture at all. I also whizzed through the other items changing the ones that allowed more than just a on off setting (0-1). I saw a change in the colours but that was about it.

    The woman with half a blue face is going to haunt me in my sleep. Where's a crying smiley when you need one!

    Jus.
     

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