Is x *1080 necessary?

goldfazer

Standard Member
Was going to get the new Hitachi 42PD8700 in the new year. It has full 1080 lines (but apparently a bit fudged due to the technology used).

However, the prices of the Panny´s is dropping to the same level.

So, is the full 1080 needed or is a lower line count OK for full 1080 HD?

If lower is OK, what should I be looking for.

And anymore reviews on the Hitachi yet - as it´s new I would hope it is good, but not sure if I´ll find one on display to look at, and then it´ll probably be showing snowy BBC.....

Ta.
 

robin78

Novice Member
the 1080 panels are interlaced, I prefer the quality of the 768 lines progressive of the pioneers and panasonics
 

MAW

Banned
'Full ' 1080 HD would be 1080P I presume? The Hitachi does not accept this signal, and it's processing of 1080i is suspect. It's not the panel which is the limiting factor, it's the processing. A PS9 panasonic deinterlaces 1080i video correctly, and it has only 480 pixels vertically, the other electronics are critical to the quality of image produced, at least as much as the pixel count. It's the likes of Sony, who make 1920/1080 LCD panels of dubious merit that wish you to think dot count is crucial. Strangely they also have the deinterlacing trouble on some of their screens, what a laugh!
 

goldfazer

Standard Member
So how does the Pan show 1080 lines?

Does it split the interlaced pic into 3 instead of the usual 2?

Getting more confused now!!:D

In what way is the Hitachi processing suspect?

Ta.
 

baconface

Standard Member
I'm split over the 1080 thing also. I plan to use a new LCD/Plasma for Xbox 360, movies with a 5.1 setup and the possibility of Telwests TvDrive (is it 720 or 1080 for broadcasts?)

For full HD 1080p I'm looking at the Sharp LCD LC37XD1E so that I can have some sort of future proofing.

But then theres the TH42PX60 which has an awesome price but only 720p.

Tough call for me :rolleyes:

Simon
 

robo989

Banned
LOL :rotfl:

You need to go back to the drawing board with your thoughts there mate, if you think anymore you might fall into a hole and not get out again.

If the screen doesn't physically have enough lines to display 1080p, like the panasonic HD 50 inch screesn have 768 lines? They scale the image (hence the term processing) to 768 lines. Much like you can "resize" an image on a computer!!!!

geewizzz.......:suicide:

No offense like but thats some funny assumptions your making there, I assume the panasonic screen would deinterlace 1080i into 1080p by combining the 2 540 line odd\even fields as best as it can and then scale down to 768p (p for progressive - as in not interlaced!).

Thats all you need to know, Maw says the processing is dodgy on some screens like Hitachi, he means that the screen doesn't do a very good job of combining the fields, and you may see "artifacts" or whatever during complex moving scenes....

The topic is a ridiculous one though ;) Do we need 1080p? Thats like asking do we need 2 pillows and a double bed quilt to sleep on, some people do and some people couldn't give a rats arse.

1080p is totally pointless on any plasma that has a res below 50 inches though, at least with current tech.
 

MAW

Banned
Full marks for Robo for eplanation. Poor deinterlacers simply take field 1, 1st 50th of a second, call it 540 lines, display it, take 2nd field, 2nd 50th second, cal it 540 lines, display it. This process loses exactly half the resolution of 1080i. Not very hi def then! Pal is 576 lines thank you very much. Good screens rebuild 1080 progressive frames from 1080i signals, and display them twice every 25th of a second. There are other ramifications, really good ones have motion compensation, helps allow for the fact that fast moving objects will have moved between interlaced frames. Lurking around somewhere in a thread about viewing distance, is a chart showing you what can be seen at what size and distance. You have to be awfully close to a 42" screen to see the benefit of 1080 lines. About 4-5ft if I recall. That would be unbearable for SD stuff. Hence Robo's last coment.
BTW mate, is it raining in Carmarthen? Was there last Saturday, it didn't rain, but we had fog all the way both ways to make up for it.
 

Orwella

Active Member
There is very little true 1080p content available. Most HD material is currently filmed in 720p anyway so anything that outputs 1080p is most likely upscaling it. As said above, you will not notice a difference between 720p or 1080p unless you have a very large monitor, or sit very close to it. 1080p is currently overkill unless you want to use a plasma or LCD as a Monitor/PC. TV manufacturers are now using pixel count as a sales gimmick.
 

Kalos Geros

Active Member
I thought the whole point of the ALIS interlaced panels was (among other things) to avoid processing as much as possible for 1080i broadcasts so 1080i is supposed to be perfect and rescale-free on an ALIS panel...1080i should get de-interlaced by extracting both 540-line fields and scaling them to the native res of the panel but employing smart motion-adaptive algorithms that would, say, combine the two fields if a scene is static to achieve full 1080p or detect whether there is actually 1080p film material hiding in the 1080i signal and combine the two 540-line fields into the original 1080-line frame...
 

MAW

Banned
In an ideal world, Kalos, that would be the explanation. Unfortnately, Hitachi failed to correctly deinterlace 1080i correctly, which it does before splitting it into the 2 ALIS fields. Or at least that was the only rational explanation of the obtained results. They are not alone, far from it. LG, Samsung, Sony to name a few are also on this list. Infocus projectors more than a couple of yrs old would also suffer, as LG use the same chipset. It's all in the magic word, 'SHOULD'. That is a perfect description of what should happen.
 

MAW

Banned
How did you guess? Though they are not alone, and are also much copied. It's good for SD. 576i is done very well. Sony don't use Faroudja, but still got it wrong.
 

Kalos Geros

Active Member
I've seen some bad word on Faroudja's processing on these forums...I was absolutely convinced they cannot go wrong...
 

robin78

Novice Member
So will the 768p show the full 1080?

I´m running off a Telewest HDDrive.

Gets a bit confusing:rolleyes:
A plasma with 768 will scale the 1080 picture to 768 lines much like the horizontal resolution of 1920 will be scaled to 1024 on both the panny as the hitachi
 

Kalos Geros

Active Member
A plasma with 768 will scale the 1080 picture to 768 lines much like the horizontal resolution of 1920 will be scaled to 1024 on both the panny as the hitachi
And if done properly it's so gorgeous you mostly cannot tell a difference from a true 1080p HD display...
 

goldfazer

Standard Member
So basically, 1080 on a 42" isn´t needed.

So I should go for a 768P (or 768i)?

Getting easier now :D

Question is, do I go for the Panny with the possible snake issues......
 

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