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Is there any point to buy a PW7 if your thinking HD sometime/anytime?

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs Forum' started by Vipen, Jan 31, 2005.

  1. Vipen

    Vipen
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    God i know this goes on and on but who has the final word? Panasonic?

    Can someone just clarify, if sky bring HD to the table next year the current PW7 will not be able to provide any picture at all from this service?

    I am sorely tempted by the offers available right now on the PW7 but even if i'm not one of the first to take up the HD sky service, what happens a little later. what exactly will this panel be of use to anyone that eventually wants HDTV because i presume the plan is everyone (like us techs of course) will want the service, just depending on price.
     
  2. Loada

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    The Panasonic plasma displays, as they currently stand, do not support the 720p @50hz (HDCP) signal that Sky have proposed to use in their upcoming HD service. However, aside from this proposal, until Sky actually roll-out the service, noone can be sure what's actually going to happen. There is a school of thought that believes that Sky will perhaps stick with the native format of HD content (which for the most part will be from the USA) @60hz - this is not as crazy as it sounds - technically, it means less work at the broadcast end and will also offer compatibility with a greater number of current displays, widening the potential userbase of the service (and of course, profit!). Also, a workable technical solution is to get an external scaler box to perform the conversion from 50hz to 60hz at the receiving end although this means a significant cost for the extra hardware and introduces its own potential problems due to the nature of frame-rate conversion.
    You might want to have a read of the two "mega-test" threads, there's a lot of useful information regarding the Panasonics in there as well as some discussion that you might find useful.
     
  3. peezee

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    Ok, I'll give it a shot:

    => IF Sky delivers as per their annoucement, you will need to add an optional DVi or HDMi board to the PWD7, PLUS an external HD compatible scaler box (e.g. Iscan HD+). That's adding about 1,000£ to the base PWD7 price. In addition the HD picture will exhibit some amount of judder on fast pans and moving pictures like footie etc...

    => IF HDTV is ultimately allowed via Component/YUV i/p by SkyHD (for part or all of HDTV broadcasts) then you just need to add an optional Component board which I believe supports all possible resolutions and formats including HD - no other extra cost and no judder involved.

    And please do not ask which one will actually happen. Right now it's the first alternative above. In 2006...?

    There you have it - I think. :)
     
  4. Vipen

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    so the bottom line is, if you are even contemplating HDTV in the future, don't buy a panny. is this right?

    so can i assume that anyone with a panny will have to sell their panel if they wish to enter the world of HD?

    to me at least, i know people say that they won't take it up straight away (if they have a panny they couldn't anyway based on facts known right now), but the very people that buy a plasma now are the same people that will be interested first in HDTV.

    it just seems strange that alot of companies are bringing out plasmas that are capable of at least handling the signal, yet panasonic, with a hoard of slots, cannot offer a bit of comfort in this area.

    can we just confirm then, you would get NO picture unless you bought a scaler which in itself lends its own problems?
     
  5. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    WRONG for 720p @50Hz you will need a box that does something to the 50Hz signal to make it compatible with the panny (cheapest current solution £800 Lumagen DVI i think)
    these will fall in price hopefully to £200 ish need to get Dr John on the case.... (this obviously is speculation on my part)
    Pionneer 435 at £3k is the only HD ready plasma on the UK market at the moment
     
  6. Bearded_Malc

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    Since you said PW7 which is the 852x480 why would you want HD sky anyway? Seems to me there is very little to be gained by taking a HD signal and displaying it on a SD screen. You may as well stick with standard sky.
     
  7. hornydragon

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    I agree but people want to know it can work if it has too......Which it can but same applies to the 42PHD 1024x768 screen and the 50" 1366x768 screen and i think the forth coming (yes panasonic WE are still waiting) for the 65" 1366x768 screen
     
  8. kron

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    I'm buying the PW7 for now and when $ky HD becomes more afordable say in three years time there should imho be 1920x1080 HD plasma's knocking about for what the 435 costs now.....er hopefully :D
     
  9. Vipen

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    this is not a vendetta against the pw7, far from it. i just need to know if these workrounds that people are mentioning do not materialise, then you will not be able to get even a signal from a HD feed.

    the reason i am asking is IF in say two years (or less) i opt for HDTV, then i would be forced to buy another panel to get the best picture which is fair enough. but would my pw7 then be obselete because of all the HD ready panels? i would presume most people would buy HD ready plasmas whether they were thinking about it or not, or more probably, most manufacturers would not leave this option out.
     
  10. wicket

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    If you really want a HD plasma now the Pioneer 435 is your choice now. However, if you are that concerned about HD just wait till it appears then choose a plasma.

    I am into technology but have just bought a Panasonic TH42PE30 non HD, I love it to bits, beautiful screen, beautiful looks - not bothered about adopting HD as soon as it comes out so I am enjoying it now. When it dies, I will get a HD one which by then should be cheaper and Sky will be all sorted out and hopefully giving out free HD upgrades.
     
  11. Supersonic72

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    I'm sure i remember reading, a few weeks ago though, that if youre just
    viewing cable TV and suchlike, then the HD issue is not a problem as their
    signal is going to be the same until gone 2012 or something...

    Its just Sky's HD service that is going to push problems forward a few yrs?

    In short, Mr Average consumer wont need to worry for a while yet am i right?
     
  12. JonStatt

    JonStatt
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    I strongly disagree with the fact that an SD screen will not benefit from an HD signal. This is much more complicated than it first appears.

    At first glance, you think of resolution. It has a higher number of pixels in the transmission and therefore needs more pixels on the screen to display it all. True, if you want the best possible picture, you want at least the same number of pixels as being transmitted.

    However, what everyone is overlooking is the transmission bandwidth and compression used. Sky Digital as it stands today is full of compression artifacts that can be seen on any good SD display.

    When HD is launched, the bandwidth given to each channel will be significantly greater. It will therefore not only have more resolution, but hopefully a lot less compression artifacts.

    In fact, I question, once we have HD, whether the improvement we perceive is really the extra pixels, or in fact, less compression artifacts.

    Jonathan
     
  13. The Gooner

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    Personelly I think you are right.
    When Sky do release HDTV what channels will it be on, probably one, you will need a new box and probably further subscription, Terstrial TV is on till 2012 now so cant see switching norm Digital off for a few years yet.
    HDTV on most or all chanells is a good few years away yet, we will all have new plasmas by then
     
  14. Vipen

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    yes that's true. it's the new plasma that's intriguing me though. i would still want my old pw7 (which i don't own...yet) relegated to a spare room.

    my concern is upgrading to sky HD or whatever, and having this one HD signal into my house and yet can't benefit from both panels, albeit one would be proper HD and one some compressed form of it (pw7).

    i just like the idea of being able to keep a tv/plasma for more than three years, relagating it to the 'play' room with my xbox2 and stuff.

    hmm, xbox2, won't be any issues here will there?
     
  15. Vipen

    Vipen
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    and just to prove i wasn't pw7 bashing............i just bought myself a nice new silver PW7 from av-sales :thumbsup:

    now if someone please can start work on a magical piece of kit that can convert sky HD broadcasts in the future.........er, i don't care anymore :clap:
     
  16. swarrans

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    and I'm sure you will continue to watch and enjoy your screen and look back in 3-5 years and wonder why you worried so much! (I'm not saying you were wrong to be concerned, I just have a feeling this will work itself out somehow)

    Simon
     
  17. Vipen

    Vipen
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    too true, i'm exhausted from all this so i just bit the bullet and plumped my money with those nice guys from av-sales on a proven plasma which i have seen. if there's issues with HDTV i'll address it when it comes.

    i can see peoples angles though as the distance between say a purchase and the eventual roll of HD gets smaller. i could have opted for the vr5 but instead i am very glad to have settled on something. if i had seen the vr5 i'm sure i'd still be making up questions whilst trying to decide.

    something that did swing it was the extra resistance (apparantly) of the PW7 to screenburn over the PW6. and maybe the VR5 is somewhat unknown in this respect right now but i don't trust my living habits (oh yes, especially at weekends) with a plasma very well so i thought i'd better get a fairly resiliant panel.

    cheers all :smoke:
     
  18. hinesle

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    I know this may seem a bit of ball but Panny has recently released the DVDS97EBS DVD player with HDMI output. It would be very interesting to find out whether it supports 50/60 htz as this may give an indication as to the future plans for Panasonic over the
    HDMI debate. (again just speculation)
     
  19. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    the S97 output PAL 576 @ 50Hz will connect direct to 7 series HDMI no problems
    it is only 720p@50Hz and 1080i@50Hz Via HDCP that are an issue for the panny, everything else works, 60Hz 576 @50 HDCP 720 and 1080 analogue second to the pio on paper it is the second most compatible just lacks the 720p@50Hz HDCP that Sky has chosen to broadcast
     
  20. hinesle

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    If this is the case do you know if the s97 supports (or rather transmits) 720p@50Hz and 1080i@50Hz Via HDCP
     
  21. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    not sure but i think it does...
     
  22. offdigital

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    I have the 37" PW7. It is linked to my PC through VGA and I have a DVB-T tuner card. The DVB-T picture shows noticable artifacts.

    However, when I use the PC to play back a HDTV MPEG file (recorded in the US), the picture is free of artifacts. Even though I do not gain from the higher resolution (and the downscaling does hurt the PQ quite a bit), it is still vastly superior to anything DVB-T has ever shown me.

    So I imagine HDTV from Sky will still be worthwhile on a PW7, so long as we can get it in to the thing as VGA, component or DVI.

    I know this doesn't help with the debate over buying an HD panel now, but for what it's worth I went with an SD panel because I'm led to believe SD panels produce a better picture for SD material than HD panels do. Bearing in mind so much content is still SD, I didn't want to make a PQ sacrifice on the basis that in a few years I might get HDTV working fully.
     

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