Is there any point in getting an Atmos AV

stewjoy

Well-known Member
Let me get this right ,
so i'm going to mount them above the front left/right as high as possible ( the max height is just under 8tf ceiling )
should i mount the "highs" so that their firing (over) my head facing me
or firing towards me directly ?
i'm guessing (over) my head ?
I have mine attached to the ceiling and angled down and turned inward slightly to my main listening position, works really well.
 

rccarguy

Active Member
Is there a app on Android like the apple virtual tape measure thing it looks ideal gives distance and angles.i could mark out height speakers with that and get spot on
 

sykotik

Distinguished Member

Sloppy Bob

Distinguished Member
The recommended position is above the front speakers as high as possible and angled towards the MLP.

Or you could put them in the normal place for ceiling speakers which is in line with your front speakers and about where your knees are.
 

rccarguy

Active Member
My ceilings is 9' high, have cornice which takes it down to 8'5"

Head About 10"8" away from front wall, and Hess 2'10" from floor
 

sykotik

Distinguished Member
What blu-rays would you recommend to give my new little set up a test out ?
I have "ready player one" "bumblebee" and "john wick" so far.

an other thing too , i have read that "black panther" also has Atmos but looking at the box in asda it's not showing me the Atmos or symbol
is there a special version that has Atmos ?

Does all copies of Gravity have Atmos ?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
an other thing too , i have read that "black panther" also has Atmos but looking at the box in asda it's not showing me the Atmos or symbol
is there a special version that has Atmos ?

Does all copies of Gravity have Atmos ?


The UHD release of Black Panther has an Atmos soundtrack while the HD Blu-ray release hasn't:



Not every release that includes Atmos on the UHD disc also includes it on the HD Blu-ray.


If waning a copy of Gravity that includes Atmos then you need the special edition:

 
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jonjames

Active Member
Ready player one has some excellent atmos effects. One bit in particular I like is In the first race you can hear kong breathing right above you as he running on top of the buildings.
 

gadgetluvr

Active Member
If introducing height speakers and if the ceiling is particularly high then you'd be better off mounting them at the optimum height Dolby suggest as opposed to mounting them higher than this close to the ceiling.




The front heights should ideally be placedat a height where they'd be 30° above your horizon when you are sat in your primary listening location.
This is possibly a silly question, but is there a recommended way to measure angles? I will be using the Min12s as front height speakers - similar to the way you use them I think.
Thanks in advance!
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
This is possibly a silly question, but is there a recommended way to measure angles? I will be using the Min12s as front height speakers - similar to the way you use them I think.
Thanks in advance!

A laser pointer and a protractor?

Speaker maker Genelec has released SpeakerAngleApp for iOS and Android. Features:

  • Angle matching for stereo and surround.
  • Applies generically to all speakers (of course), despite the Genelec name.
  • Rotate each speaker, and you can watch the app display angles and rotate the display.
  • Number boxes and color coding provide feedback for setting up recommended angles in different combinations and pairs.
  • Includes tutorial on angling generally, as well as instructions for the app.

There's also a review of this app here:


This wouldn't be designed to help with the vertical angles associated with angling speakers downward toward the listener though. Guidance on these angles relative to height speakers within an Atmos setup can be found at the back of this Dolby Atmos guide (Height Speaker Placement Guidelines Page 57):
:


Most people simply guess and approximate the angles they position speakers in relation to. Getting them slighly off isn't really going to make much if any difference. Most setups would be used by more than just one person in a single seating location so not everyone in that listening speace will be subjected to the exact same optimum angles. The MLP will benefit the most though if the angles and distances are correct. Do try not to measure distance using a tape measure though. THe distance configurations are actually worked out by measuring how long audio takes to reach the calibration mic. A delay can be incurred during this process caused by additional processing within the signal path. A tape measure cannot account for this so isn't going to be more accurate than the AV receiver's mic and its measurements.
 
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gadgetluvr

Active Member
idance on these angles relative to height speakers within an Atmos setup can be found at the back of this Dolby Atmos guide (Height Speaker Placement Guidelines Page 57):
Thanks for the precise guidance. It's interesting the guide states "if the height speakers must be mounted on the ceiling ..." - I would've thought that ceiling is the preferred option for Atmos as the more overhead they can be the better.

I'm not too worried about getting to 30 deg. exactly. There's probably other simpler factors you could adjust that would make a bigger difference to the overall soundstage. I was just hoping I wouldn't be wildly off the 30 deg mark and was wondering if there were any common audio setup tips that people typically used for something like this.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Downward firing ceiling speakers are the best option if you can accomodate them and this would be what Diolby themselves suggest be used for Atmos if and wherever possible. This will give you a more accurate representation of what was intended. Height speakers cannot portray the same overhead effects that are possible if using overhead downward firing speakers. Height speakers do give you more of a soundstage though and are still an imprivement over more conventional channel based setups devoid of height or ceiling speakers.

Dolby are reference using forward firing speakers that are using ceiling mounts when they reference HEIGHT speakers that are ceiling mounted in the Height section of their guide.

Here's what Dolby are refering to, forward firing speakers with a ceiling mount:
bracket_medium_7-large.jpg


Trial and error works well for most andf don't be afraid to experiment until you get something you are happy with :lesson:
 
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gadgetluvr

Active Member
Here's what Dolby are refering to, forward firing speakers with a ceiling mount:
aah, that makes sense, thanks again. I haven't seen the mounts on the Min12's but I was hoping I could mount on the ceiling with the back of the speaker parallel to the ceiling, so therefore acting as a downward firing ceiling speaker effectively. I am aware though that if that is indeed possible, the recommended position of that setup is quite different again - and it's the excess wiring that I won't be able to hide that might be an issue.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
The Cambridge Audio Minx 400M mounts would allow for what you want to do (surface mounted downward firing speakers). You'd want the speakers to be slighly in front of your seated location to make the best of downward firing ceiling speakers though:

by default 2021-01-12 at 17.20.24.png


Here's the wall mount with the MN12 speaker connected to it:
b6c4a17e58c606e0dc6907c27c65e9fcab850815_308970_1-1.jpg


1dcb005ec08abc7afd3a4d9fc4a3e72e0d7f749c_308970_2.jpg




They are also available in black:
ded4c8d5ad5dca8a54969345e58500edad80d076_307954_2.jpg


 
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John7

Well-known Member
The "problem" with tiny speakers like the Minx if you have a receiver (like the Pioneer) that has a "global" crossover, is that ALL your speakers will be set to match the minimum 150Hz of the smallest speaker. That's what puts me off small speakers. My system sounds rubbish set at 150Hz.

Gravity SE is available here (just got it myself ;) )

Gravity [Blu-ray] [2015] [Region Free]: Amazon.co.uk: George Clooney, Sandra Bullock, Emmanuel Lubezki, Alfonso Cuarón, George Clooney, Sandra Bullock, Alfonso Cuarón, David Heyman, Alfonso Cuarón, Jonás Cuarón: DVD & Blu-ray
 

gadgetluvr

Active Member
The Cambridge Audio Minx 400M mounts would allow for what you want to do (surface mounted downward firing speakers).
I've bought the 400M mounts so great to know/see they can downward fire - just need to work out how to discretely run cable across the ceiling now as I can't do it any other way unfortunately.

The "problem" with tiny speakers like the Minx if you have a receiver (like the Pioneer) that has a "global" crossover, is that ALL your speakers will be set to match the minimum 150Hz of the smallest speaker. That's what puts me off small speakers. My system sounds rubbish set at 150Hz.
I will investigate more when my AVR finally arrives but I think my model (X2700H) does allow you to mix and match crossovers. I hadn't considered this whole crossover thing at the time of purchase must admit - and I'm still wondering how it will sound with potentially the sub being localised at the 150hz crossovers that the Min12s will probably need.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
The X2700 allows and facilitates independent crossovers for each set of speakers present so will allow you to set the crossover for the MN12 speakers differently to the other speakers.

You'd be ublikely to notice that the crossover is set so high, but the sub will portray this better than the speakers can and you'll not ordinarilly be able to localise those frequencies to the sub.
 

gadgetluvr

Active Member
The X2700 allows and facilitates independent crossovers for each set of speakers present so will allow you to set the crossover for the MN12 speakers differently to the other speakers.

You'd be ublikely to notice that the crossover is set so high, but the sub will portray this better than the speakers can and you'll not ordinarilly be able to localise those frequencies to the sub.
great thanks dante01, appreciate your wealth of knowledge.
 

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