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Is there any benefit in buying from a dealer ?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by HMHB, Jul 26, 2004.

  1. HMHB

    HMHB
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    I'm looking at buying the Denon 3805 which I can get on-line at Avland for £844 or I can get it from a dealer nearby for £900.
    Is there any benefit in paying the extra to buy it from a high street shop - I'm thinking really about if anything goes wrong with the amp.
     
  2. Shockabuku

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    For the sake of £50, it has to make sense to use the local dealer. Nothing against AV-Land, they're great & in fact I'm receiving a DVD player from them tomorrow, but particularly for something complex like a receiver, the backup you'll get from a dealer must be worth more than £50. Now, if there was £200 difference then it'd be a tricky one....
     
  3. Ed Selley

    Ed Selley
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    That point is valid but I think I have another one :)

    September 2005 comes along and you feel the (inevitable) urge to look at new speakers. The conversation you had with the dealer means that when you ask him about speakers, he'll instantly be further up understanding what you're after and generally you can take your own AV amp along to him (or better still get a home trial) and make an utterly confident, quick decision and get the right product. I have always felt (and I think I could present evidence to prove) that systems bought through dealers have a longer life between upgrades and generally give a better bang for your buck than ad hoc "awards" based systems bought purely on the strength of review/price.

    My 2p anyhoo.
     
  4. cameronl

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    still, thats about 3 movies and 3 music cd's you could get instead :)

    CAM
     
  5. karkus30

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    The only advantage is that you can transport your amp to the dealer more easily than putting it into a box and paying transport costs (which you would probably have refunded by AVLand), there is also the possibility of a loan unit if yours needs repairing.

    If your dealer is really good, then its worth cultivating a relationship. Its usual to get free home demos and knock down prices on future items.

    However my experience of most dealers is that they try and take your eyes out, dont want equipment back unless its for a small fraction of the price, wont allow home demos unless you buy the equipment first. When you take faulty items back they rarely have a replacement in stock, so it ends up going back to the manufacturer for weeks on end. Most have a limited range, so if you want anything outside their usual stock they are unlikely to comply.

    I have just purchased a Denon from Avland, ordered Sunday arriving tommorow. They seem very professional and communicate well, I have no doubt (judging by the comments on the forum) that anything faulty will be handled equally well. I would save the money or ask the dealer to price match. The only difference between an online dealer and a local dealer is the fact that you have the items delivered to you and vica versa.
     
  6. Falp

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    You can get the 3805 must cheaper then those prices in german internet shops, for less than 1200€...
     
  7. Jules

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    If you buy from a BADA dealer, you get an extended guarantee as part of the sale. When I bought my amplifier, the receipt showed 3 years guarantee!!... and I didn't ask or pay for it!

    If your dealer is a BADA dealer, then the price you are paying with all the other benefits mentioned previously, would be money well spent IMO.
     
  8. Rob.Screene

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    karkus30,
    Which Denon have you gone for? Is it to replace the A10SE?

    I'd love to hear what you think in comparison.

    regards,
    Rob.
     
  9. bobbypunk

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    As I work for a dealer I could be classed as biased
    (a dealer that holds alot of stock, has a repair account with all brands we deal with, will allow home trials on 100% deposit and will kindly take phone calls explaining what button it was you needed to push)
    Depends on dealer but:
    Installation offered
    Guarantee which includes in-house service
    free advice and proof of trustworthiness (Demo and home demo)
    Someone to explain it when it just doesn't do what you want
    advice on partners for the item at time of purchase, and way into the future.
     
  10. Radiohead

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    For the sake of £50 I'd go with the dealer every time, for all of the very good reasons listed above (and I'm another very satisfied avland customer). Imagine a world with no hi-fi shops to wander around - it'd be a terrible place.

    One of the lowest tricks is to use a dealer's demo facilities to make a decision and then go and buy the kit online for cheaper.
     
  11. karkus30

    karkus30
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    No, I am keeping the Denon, I cant really fault it. Might buy one of the Denon power amps so I get all channels functioning. Its only used for surround duties and does tjis very well. Its the DVD player Im getting DVD2900 and it arrives tommorow :clap:
     
  12. karkus30

    karkus30
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    Sorry, dont agree. Its up to the dealer to make an attractive offer to the customer, the manufacturer only sets a RRP, negotiation is between customer and dealer.

    Most dealers can match or beat a genuine online-dealers prices, infact, many dealers are the online sites.

    In virtually all cases the goods offered are the bog standard packages from the main line manufacturers, Denon, Marantz, Pioneer etc, which most people buy because of magazine reviews (manufacturers marketing budget). Yes, the dealer may offer a dem facility, but so what, its just an aid to sales, dont go around thinking its for your enjoyment.

    The sales process is about ensuring the customer and the dealer end up happy. If a customer is being shown a piece of equipment and is keen to buy, it is in the dealers interests not to let them walk out of the shop and buy elsewhere, that doesnt just mean online stores, it means the other dealers just around the corner. KNOW THE COMPETITION :lesson:

    There is always room for negotiation, offering install and set up, free accessories and discounts off future purchases can help swing the deal. Comments like ' you wont get support if you buy it over the web ' are unfounded. Most dealers I have dealt with, the support ended when they held the door open for you stumble down the street with your mountain of overpriced hifi.

    The dealers that stock genuine esoteric hifi are the ones to support, they sell products from smaller niche manufacturers..........just try buying LFD, DNM, audio innovations, Krell, Lavardin etc from an online store. The dealers that go the extra mile to be helpful (not found one yet ,but Im sure they exist) and charge a little extra should be applauded.

    Mind you, I dont enjoy walking round hifi shops to be honest, well not the kind that are stacked to the gills with the latest WHF best buys.
     
  13. Radiohead

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    Firstly I think that's an unnecessarily snobbish attitude to take - basically that if you can afford esoteric kit then support your dealer, and if you can't then buy online and sod them. Just because you're lucky enough to not be in the market populated by WHF kit doesn't mean you're not as demanding of what you can get for your money and thus keen to demo as much as you can. As to your point that demoing isn't here for our enjoyment, I beg to differ. I consider it an exciting and enlightening aspect of the buying process.

    Secondly you manage to neatly ignore the fact that a high street store is almost guaranteed to have higher overheads and thus will have less room for negotiation on price. This doesn't mean that they can't match some items, depending on margin, but might make it tougher for them to do so. It's the same argument with record shops. Yes CD-Wow can do you a chart album for £8.99 delivered, but I dread the day when record shops disappear from our high streets, and the love of the people that run them with it.

    You also fail to note that a small proportion of people buy from hi-fi shops anyway, so in a way they're all selling to a niche market. Most people I know would never consider buying separates and are quite happy in Comet. Good luck to them.

    Dare I suggest that your buying attitude might be why you've yet to find a dealer that satisifes you?.....no offence intended, but a genuine question.
     
  14. bobbypunk

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    I think you judge each dealer seperately the best of the onlines offer better service than the worst shops. But at the same time the best of the shops will go out of their way to give you the best deal they can (That is still worth their while). I don't have much experience of other hi-fi shops but our service covers: advice on what equipment to use for the task you want to perform, advice on suitable partners, demos to prove we are right, home demo to ensure we are right, installations offered from basic setup onwards, phone advice for any problems using equipment, in home service for faults. Now if there is an online service that offers this and gives good prices and actually has them items in stock, let me know!
     
  15. HMHB

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    Just a quick point here - I'm also buying some Castle rear speakers and a Castle Keep2 centre and this dealer sells them. I can't find anywhere on line who sells Castle speakers, so I do have to purchase them from this dealer..... unless anyone knows different !
     
  16. Kazman

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    I have a general rule, I will always check local dealers before buying online, and give them the opportunity to get as close as they can to the price I have found.

    If they make an effort in trying to match the price, then I usually give them the sale if they get close enough, for example, within 10-15% of the online price. But this is also dependant on the level of service provided as well.

    Technosound in Dunstable and Milton Keynes have always given me great service and are always willing to haggle whenever I've been there, heck, they sold me my KEF PSW2500 for £239!! A whopping £110 off the rrp!! And will certainly go back there, not just because of that KEF bargain, but because they genuinely know what they are talking about and have a lovely demo area (especially in Milton Keynes).

    I've also bought from AV-Land and had great service from them, and will certainly go back to them in the future, but not without visiting the local dealers first :D
     
  17. bobbypunk

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    They tend to be sold through authorised dealers only, as more of the manufacturers are pushing for this it will become more common to find items that can't be brought online!
     
  18. karkus30

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    Let me answer your first point. My H/C system consists of none esoteric equipment. Did I demo it ? No , I decided, based on forum recommendation and consumer reports. The Amplifier was S/H, the Subwoofer was direct from SVS, rears by Energy (Sevenoaks), DVD player from AVland. Demoing AV equipment in the comfort of a dealers dem room has little to do with the actual sound in your own enviroment, but if you think it helps, then thats your decision.

    Second point was answered in my original diatribe, quite a number of these online stores ARE high street dealers. Where you place your outlet is a business decision. Outlets are placed in in a high street to get maximum visibility and make greater sales and profits. Those that are placed in less visible areas pay less for the property, but consequently have higher overheads for advertising. Dont think that an Internet based shop is cheap to run, consider the web site running costs and the volume of delivered items. You still need a secure building, heating, lighting, staff etc.

    Record stores ? are we talking HMV and Virgin. If I go down to my local HMV they have NONE of the albums Im looking for, they do have the mainstream stuff. Anything thats slightly out of the ordinary gets a £15-£16 price tag !
    If your talking small independents that stock more unusual music, then I have no arguments. Unfortunately they were put out of business by the high street stores in my area, so its hobsons choice. I vote with my credit card and good independent online companies get my money.

    Im not sure what point your making with your third comment, but Comet stock seperates from the major brands. Your happy to dismiss Comet, but believe that the Hi Fi shops that sell exactly the same equipment are in some way different. Hell, Comet even have dem rooms in some stores.

    Finally, I can have any attitude I like in a retail outlet. I have some money, they have some goods. They must demonstrate to my satisfaction that the goods are suitable for my purpose. We negotiate a price which is acceptable to both parties. Then I pay the money. As in many cases they cant actually demonstrate the equipment as they dont have it in stock or dont feel inclined to set up a home demo (but if I would like to put a deposit down etc etc), then what advantage do they have over an online retailer...........oh yes, they are more expensive, so at least I can feel happy in the knowledge that Im keeping their business afloat. Remember the British car Industry :thumbsdow

    Dont take this the wrong way. I have come across some good dealers, but not in my local area. Believe it or not , I ended up travelling to Oldham in order to get a projector demo (local dealer would get one in for me (just put down a 10% deposit etc ). But the dealer in Oldham was prepared to set up the demo at a moments notice, talked me through the PJ screens and didnt take my eyes out on price. He got my business. But do you honestly think I would be prepared to pay 20% or 30% more from my local dealer, who cant even be bothered to set a demo up, unless I put a deposit down. No :censored: way. I would rather give my money to the web based outlet and make a saving.
     
  19. HMHB

    HMHB
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    I left a message on Monday morning for the dealer to ring me back and I still haven't heard anything :rolleyes:
     
  20. karkus30

    karkus30
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    :rotfl: :rotfl: put my order into Avland on Sunday evening and was in possesion of my goods by Tuesday. They e.mailed me the tracking number(it was easy to check it whereabouts direct from city links web site), phoned to let me know it was on its way, confirmed that all the firmware upgrades had been done and all for about a 30% saving on dealer prices.

    Sorry to laugh :blush: its no fun, its happened to me several times :thumbsdow , but it does kind of support my comments.

    However , if you do find a good dealer.............marry him ;)
     
  21. HMHB

    HMHB
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    Agreed - I would have laughed myself had it happened to someone else :D
    I think I will therefore buy my amp from AvLand and get the speakers from the dealer as I can't get them on-line.
     
  22. Greg Hook

    Greg Hook
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    Just to make you all jealous but AVLand are my local dealer!
     
  23. karkus30

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    So, Im supporting your local dealer :D I rest my case :smashin:
     
  24. bobbypunk

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    ok you've sold it to me, i think the answer is that you should try the dealers first, give them a chance to make themselves worth any difference! and if they're crap, it's up to you wether you keep trying, or give up and buy online!
    (What doesn't help is that AV land genuinely seem quite good compared to alot of online retailers, I'm sure the retailer would get more votes against other websites).
    I have never heard anything as stupid though as a retailer asking for a deposit to demo goods!! Home demo and holding 100% cleared funds is just a sign of the times, but to ask deposits when they are just doing in-store demo just seems odd. I've always demoed items at the drop of a hat if it's practical otherwise it goes in a diary so the customer can arrange a suitable day, this system seems to work weel with customers!
     
  25. SurferDude

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    For me it came down to a question of warranty. I was looking to source my SR7400 from Singapore for a fraction of local dealer prices but it would have come without a warranty.

    So, I bounced my internet price (AUD$1400) off the dealer who's RRP was $2400. Huge gap, but he came back with $1700 so I went with him for the sake of $300. Now here's the good bit... I went in to pick it up and got the DV6400 DVD/SACD multi-player for $580 when its RRP was $1000. He was a great guy and helped with a lot of info/advice.

    He also stocks all of the speaker systems I could want and I'll be going back to him so I can demo them with one of his SR7400s before I make a purchase decision. I know he'll then do me a good deal versus RRP and I can walk away knowing I get full warranty, local support and a fair price.

    CHeers
     
  26. karkus30

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    Its generally because they dont hold stock. If they did have it, then obviously no deposit needed. This is also a sign of the times 'back to back' ordering due to cashflow. This is the same situation with the firm I work for (nothing to do with HIFI or H/C), we stock less and less and demand that the customer agrees to buy any stock before we put items on the shelf that we have'nt sold in the past.

    This has come about due to customer pressure to give greater discounts and strong competition. It means our service is drastically reduced, meaning less customers. This gives me a strong insight into other business and how to cope.

    To stem the loss of customers due to high discounts, you need to better understand the market conditions and tailor your products to suit this allows increased service levels. Its simple to say, but requires a lot of dedicated market research and when your in the woods.....................
     
  27. HMHB

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    Another update.
    Last Thursday the dealer actually rang me back. We discussed my need for Castle compacts for rear speakers and a Castle Keep 2 centre in mahogany finish, and he said that he'd have to check with Castle to see if they were available in that finish at the moment. I also asked about the availability of the Denon 3805 in silver and was told they don't have any in stock so he would phone Denon to see when he could get one - also the same with a couple of speaker stands from another company (seems that they don't stock anything!!). Guess what ? No call back Friday, Saturday or Monday. Don't these people want business :confused:
     
  28. hornydragon

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    give them a call and see what they say, we are human and can forget things!
     
  29. Adrenochrome

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  30. HMHB

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    Brilliant mate, I wasn't aware that you could get castle speakers on line. Thanks for the info. :thumbsup:
     

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