Is there any [32"] TV with built in ethernet/DLNA that can play Foxsat .ts files?

Get Go

Standard Member
I'd like to buy a 32" [or smaller] TV with a built-in Ethernet socket and DLNA support. But I need to be sure it can play the .ts files on the Foxsat [using Raydons media server bundle] via ethernet.

I have had experience of a 2010 46" Philips 9000 series TV and it can not play the Foxsat's .ts files.

Does any body know if any TV can play those files at all? Or perhaps a certain brand is know for it's file playing compatibility?

Any hep is appreciated. Thanks
 
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Get Go

Standard Member
Just to clarify, I'm not sitting back waiting for some one else to do my research for me.

My problem is the Foxsat's .ts file is a bit of a DIY job by Humax. AFAIK its their own hybrid .ts made up of an MPEG2 stream in an .m2ts package but labeled as ".ts" on the Hard Drive. So its not your common-or-garden .ts file.

It's the D.I.Y. nature of the file that's causing issues.

For example I have come across a Sony KDL-32EX524 that has an Ethernet connection and I'm pretty sure its DLNA too. I'm having trouble getting official info on the file types it can play over DLNA.

From another source [serviio.org] I think it may be able to play .ts files over DLNA but even if it can play standard .ts files can it play Humax's Foxsat DIY .ts file???
 

swedish cook

Novice Member
Search the forum for the "compatible clients" thread, I'm pretty sure there are no TVs listed. Look for a media player instead there are several listed in that thread.
 

grahamlthompson

Distinguished Member
Just to clarify, I'm not sitting back waiting for some one else to do my research for me.

My problem is the Foxsat's .ts file is a bit of a DIY job by Humax. AFAIK its their own hybrid .ts made up of an MPEG2 stream in an .m2ts package but labeled as ".ts" on the Hard Drive. So its not your common-or-garden .ts file.

It's the D.I.Y. nature of the file that's causing issues.

For example I have come across a Sony KDL-32EX524 that has an Ethernet connection and I'm pretty sure its DLNA too. I'm having trouble getting official info on the file types it can play over DLNA.

From another source [serviio.org] I think it may be able to play .ts files over DLNA but even if it can play standard .ts files can it play Humax's Foxsat DIY .ts file???

It's pretty well a bog standard broadcast transport stream file. SD ones are mpeg2 and HD ones are H264/AVC. Your TV probably needs a programme stream file (.mpg). Vlc and the brilliant Splash Lite will play on a PC.

Here's one I just recorded

Code:
General
ID                               : 2047 (0x7FF)
Complete name                    : G:\Homes Under the Hammer_20111207_1045.ts
Format                           : BDAV
Format/Info                      : Blu-ray Video
File size                        : 14.1 MiB
Duration                         : 33s 565ms
Overall bit rate mode            : Variable
Overall bit rate                 : 3 500 Kbps

Video
ID                               : 5700 (0x1644)
Menu ID                          : 6441 (0x1929)
Format                           : MPEG Video
Format version                   : Version 2
Format profile                   : [email protected]
Format settings, BVOP            : Yes
Format settings, Matrix          : Custom
Codec ID                         : 2
Duration                         : 33s 520ms
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                         : 3 093 Kbps
Maximum bit rate                 : 15.0 Mbps
Width                            : 720 pixels
Height                           : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 16:9
Frame rate                       : 25.000 fps
Standard                         : PAL
Color space                      : YUV
Chroma subsampling               : 4:2:0
Bit depth                        : 8 bits
Scan type                        : Interlaced
Scan order                       : Top Field First
Compression mode                 : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.298
Stream size                      : 12.4 MiB (87%)

Audio
ID                               : 5701 (0x1645)
Menu ID                          : 6441 (0x1929)
Format                           : MPEG Audio
Format version                   : Version 1
Format profile                   : Layer 2
Codec ID                         : 3
Duration                         : 33s 528ms
Bit rate mode                    : Constant
Bit rate                         : 256 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 2 channels
Sampling rate                    : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode                 : Lossy
Delay relative to video          : -288ms
Stream size                      : 1.02 MiB (7%)
Language                         : English

Text #1
ID                               : 5703 (0x1647)-888
Menu ID                          : 6441 (0x1929)
Format                           : Teletext Subtitle
Language                         : English

Text #2
ID                               : 5704 (0x1648)
Menu ID                          : 6441 (0x1929)
Format                           : DVB Subtitle
Codec ID                         : 6
Duration                         : 28s 830ms
Delay relative to video          : 4s 677ms
Language                         : English

Menu
ID                               : 268 (0x10C)
Menu ID                          : 6441 (0x1929)
Duration                         : 33s 565ms
List                             : 5700 (0x1644) (MPEG Video) / 5701 (0x1645) (MPEG Audio, English) / 5703 (0x1647) () / 5704 (0x1648) (DVB Subtitle, English)
Language                         :  / English /  / English


You may get away with simply renaming the file as .mpg. If not there's lots of software to convert transport stream to programme stream. Best I know of but not free is Videredo Plus.

Also try using Raydons AV2HDR to recreate the .ts file.
 

Get Go

Standard Member
Thanks for the replies guys.

I have a WDTV Live media player, myself and it plays the .ts files fine.

But this setup is for a relation. It needs to be an all-in-one solution. The TV has to be able to play the .ts files over ethernet.

I wont be able to rename the files, they are going to be played direct from the Foxsat's hard drive.

The end user ain't particularly tech savvy. She'll be able to navigate a TV menu but that's probably the beginning and end of it.

While I agree its pretty much a bog standard transport stream there are some irregularities [I think]. That MediaInfo data shows it as Bluray
format which I think means it should be labeled .m2ts. While *regular* .m2ts files can contain mpeg2 I'm not so sure they should have DVB subtitles and teletext etc. [It will only be the SD mpeg2 ones I'm concerned with as the HD ones are encrypted.]

While those quirks shouldn't really cause issues for any decent media player like VLC my [limited] experience of inbuilt TV media player functionality has shown them to be quite limited and the quirks listed above seem to trip them up.

I was surprised to find the Philips 46" 9000 couldn't handle the files, as the digital terrestrial TV signal it receives is more or less the same .ts and of course it can handle that.

Thanks for your help.
 

grahamlthompson

Distinguished Member
Thanks for the replies guys.

I have a WDTV Live media player, myself and it plays the .ts files fine.

But this setup is for a relation. It needs to be an all-in-one solution. The TV has to be able to play the .ts files over ethernet.

I wont be able to rename the files, they are going to be played direct from the Foxsat's hard drive.

The end user ain't particularly tech savvy. She'll be able to navigate a TV menu but that's probably the beginning and end of it.

While I agree its pretty much a bog standard transport stream there are some irregularities [I think]. That MediaInfo data shows it as Bluray
format which I think means it should be labeled .m2ts. While *regular* .m2ts files can contain mpeg2 I'm not so sure they should have DVB subtitles and teletext etc. [It will only be the SD mpeg2 ones I'm concerned with as the HD ones are encrypted.]

While those quirks shouldn't really cause issues for any decent media player like VLC my [limited] experience of inbuilt TV media player functionality has shown them to be quite limited and the quirks listed above seem to trip them up.

I was surprised to find the Philips 46" 9000 couldn't handle the files, as the digital terrestrial TV signal it receives is more or less the same .ts and of course it can handle that.

Thanks for your help.

.m2ts and .mts are identical. They can contain mpeg2, mpeg4 or H264 all are blu-ray compliant. I have a 32" Sony DNLA TV upstairs I will check If i can stream a SD TS for you. And what it does with the same file on a USB stick.
 

kevkbuk

Distinguished Member
Media players in TVs are generally quirky, even if they play certain file types direct via USB they may not via DLNA... A seperate media player is surely the way to go, if they are going to be able to use the Foxsat they'll be able to use a WDTV or perhaps Apple TV with XBMC. It is only navigating menus after all...

Have thought about linking to the second TV via RF or HDMI over ethernet rather than streaming? Of course you loose some of the advantages of streaming, but they may find it easier.
 

grahamlthompson

Distinguished Member
Sony smart TV can't stream .ts from a Foxsat-hdr from a file on my Laptop using PS3 media server or replay from usb. A different media server may well work. Raydons patched firmware allows streaming direct from a hdr for SD content to a DNLA TV that may well be your answer if the TV and hdr can be connected to a LAN.
 

Get Go

Standard Member
Graham, thanks a million for taking time and effort to do that. It's a pity it didn't work. I think you may be right when you say a different media server may work. At least I know I'm right to be treading cautiously.

I think the only way to be 100% sure is to bring the Foxsat, router and LAN cable into the showroom and hook it up before buying !!! :D

@kevkbuk a media player would be the easiest solution in some ways, but due to the location [kitchen], budget and the person involved, an all-in-one setup is what's required.

Yeah I thought of RF but I ruled it out. I not to sure what you mean by HDMI over ethernet but I'll give it a google. If it means adding a HDMI cable it'll more than likely be ruled out: the 15m or so of Cat 5 ethernet LAN cable is already installed. But thanks for the ideas.

Thanks.
 

grahamlthompson

Distinguished Member
Graham, thanks a million for taking time and effort to do that. It's a pity it didn't work. I think you may be right when you say a different media server may work. At least I know I'm right to be treading cautiously.

I think the only way to be 100% sure is to bring the Foxsat, router and LAN cable into the showroom and hook it up before buying !!! :D

@kevkbuk a media player would be the easiest solution in some ways, but due to the location [kitchen], budget and the person involved, an all-in-one setup is what's required.

Yeah I thought of RF but I ruled it out. I not to sure what you mean by HDMI over ethernet but I'll give it a google. If it means adding a HDMI cable it'll more than likely be ruled out: the 15m or so of Cat 5 ethernet LAN cable is already installed. But thanks for the ideas.

Thanks.

You can use two lengths of cat5 and a pair of baluns to create hdmi links over very long distances.

Example

http://www.thatcable.com/product/HDMI-Over-CAT5-Cable-Extender-Device-Balun-60m
 

Get Go

Standard Member
Wow, never heard of that before. Very interesting.
 

logiciel

Moderator
It's the normal way of extending HDMI sources.
 

alanathome

Standard Member
Hi Get Go
Have just found this post Immediatly after posting a question for Graham on another Thread, Ah well I just quote Senile decay setting in.

I Like you have been trying to follow the obvious route of streaming recorded TV program video files, onto a larger than a Laptop, TV screen in a bedroom for a sick person, from my Humax Freesat HDR and Freeview HDR T2 TV signal recorders
In other words TV recordings to a TV.

Sending to PCs should be a secondary function ?

Can we continue Swopping Notes here or are Personal messages the correct way to continue, I'm very new to all this Posting etc and seem to always get it wrong.

As you seem to on the same wavelength as me perhaps we can help each other ?. I'm a very retired TV Engineer

Alan
 

logiciel

Moderator
Hi Alan. He hasn't posted since 9 Decemebr but he might see this and reply. If not send him a message. You seem to be OK with posting as far as I can see. ;) Logiciel
 

Get Go

Standard Member
Hi Alan, fire away, but be warned I'm far from an expert on this.

*******
Regarding my initial question I've some updates. I have discovered that the 46" Philips 9000 series can actually play the Foxsat .ts files... but not all of them. It seems to be able to play all BBC .ts files no problem.
It does not seem to be able to play Channel 4 ones! That's what initially led me to believe it couldn't play the .ts files at all. I'm in the middle of trying to fix this issue but I'm struggling.

Regarding DLNA compatibility, the DLNA have a website where you can input your prospective TV model and it will return the DLNA certificate for the TV [Tip:don't bother ticking the"Product Categories" box, some manufacturers don't list their products in that way, just use manufacturer and model number]

Once you get that DLNA certificate back you want to see [at a minimum] :
MPEG_TS_SD_EU
MPEG_TS_SD_EU_ISO
MPEG_TS_SD_EU_T

They indicate European MPEG DVB standard def transport stream compatibility. [none of the TV's had HD certification]

And on the certificate, along side those items the more dots the better.
Sony 32" TV's had the fullest set of feature on their DLNA certs while Samsung had the worst [US transport stream certified but not EU transport stream certified i.e non DVB !!!]

Anyway it is hideously complicated and I actually brought the Foxsat and a router into a show room and tested 3 TVs Samsung 5000, Samsung 5520 and Sony EX524

None of them could play the files.

I switched between MediaTomb and Twonky with no joy.

So in the end I went for a Philips 32PFL7606 . It has the same issue as the 46", in that it can play BBC .ts files but not channel 4 ones [but at least it can play some of them!]

I'm in the middle of trying to see if I can fix the channel 4 issue.
 
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alanathome

Standard Member
Hi again Get Go

Thanks for the Information so good having someone else involved in the search.
My friend has the very latest Sony TV, Mine networks but at 2yrs old is not equipt with as many codecs as his, I've tried that TV as it lists the codec types it will play and .ts was included, but it is still is the wrong envelope package.

So at least your post gives me a good lot of Info I didn't have before to explore.

grahamlthompson replied to me on another Thread and mentioned the Sony PS3 as a server, but I want to use the Humax as the server, I've found out Though, that the sofware version of PS3 media player he mentioned for Laptop PCs also runs in LINUX as a tgz package and thats the linux type we load onto the Humax to run the Web Interface stuff and I'm going to ask the guys if they can include in the Custom firmware updates
As I also have a Humax HDR T2 Freeview box, it has more Custom Firmware updates and will also remove the encryption from HD that also makes for problems, so lots to try at the moment.

Are you running the Custom firmware updates by the way I assume you are as your networking a freesat box and only the T2 has the server enabled
will read all this and post again

Nice to be in touch Regards Alan
 

Get Go

Standard Member
I'm not sure you need PS3 Media Server on the Humax. There are 2 pieces of server software already for it Twonky and MediaTomb, perhaps try them first and see how you go.

In my travels I saw that Sony recommend Serviio server software, which is open source too. That might be better than PS3 server for your needs but I'm not sure if it can be installed on the Foxsat??
 

alanathome

Standard Member
Hi I need to Lie down in a Dark room and let my brain catch up

Not too much time to spare for this, As I'm researching a motor mover for my Caravan at the moment, another result of the old age problem, now have heart failure and cann't push the Van about too much.
We are putting the Van on a site in North Wales for 4mths from 1st March so may be off Forum till 7th July my 3 Mobile usb Broadband Dongle, only works 2% of the time up there, so not much chance of Broadband
How SAD is that

Anyway always the Cup 1/2 full man me as as long as I can crawl, I'm up and at it :thumbsup:

Back to Thread you may be right but as I understand all these Codecs
[and thats just the very Basics of it by the way :rolleyes:]

Looking into the PS3 Media Serv Config Files, it has various TV Video packeage Converting codecs, including in its list the
Sony Bravia KDL-37V5500 LCD TV I have, although this TV is in my lounge sitting above my 3 Humax HDR recorders, all 4 Items are plugged into a four I/P Solwise 500meg Homeplug.

So although I obviously view all boxes via HDMI cables, I can still Stream to the Modem upstairs, and back down to the TV to test Streaming, and then eventually buy another Network TV for Bedrooms when we have sorted the streaming problems. Had a quick look at DNLA site great, thanks

and as I understand all this, the PS3 Linux Media server will do the conversion on the fly to the TV, which I don't think the other servers will[PHEW ] so can't try that till the Guys put it on the Web interface etc.

My Pal also brings his network TV's round to test as well.
So still work in progress at the moment.

Best Regards Alan
 

REPASSAC

Well-known Member
Hi I need to Lie down in a Dark room and let my brain catch up .........................................................

.................and as I understand all this, the PS3 Linux Media server will do the conversion on the fly to the TV, which I don't think the other servers will[PHEW ] so can't try that till the Guys put it on the Web interface etc.
..............................
Best Regards Alan

Sorry but I don't think the HDR is up to transcoding on the fly. These are two principal methods of transcoding: brute force and leaving the job to a chipset. No such chipset exists in the HDR and it has quite a low power CPU that leaves most of it's functions to a PVR chip from Broadcom.
 

alanathome

Standard Member
Thanks for your Reply REPASSAC
So I'm getting the Impression its back to searching for a TV that will play the Humax ts

If you read Get Go posts he has a phillips TV that plays BBC 1 ts but not CH4 so as my Sony DLNA certificate seems to list the correct ts as playable, it lists these

MPEG_TS_SD_EU
MPEG_TS_SD_EU_ISO
MPEG_TS_SD_EU_T

but only starts to try to load and then freezes, any humax ts it seems to point to some slight header problem

The webif function of recording last steamed iplayer file as an MP4 works on Sony TV so that will play, but although its recorded on the Box and saved as Mp4( I cann't find the origional file I thought it would be something like the 0.ts buffer file) memo to self must enable the new webif sever and view all route files.:facepalm:

but the webif just does the mp4 without pointing to the location of where its come from. so I can't look at first bytes of file before the webif does its bit to mp4.
Not that I would understand it anyway but I have got long way in the past by comparing a know playable header with an unplayable one.
It must be unlike the ts created from on air transmission recordings

Much more thought required but thanks for your help only been trying this for 18mths so far, I am rather patient but right at the very edge of my Knowledge

Thanks to all who spend their time trying to help us
 

grahamlthompson

Distinguished Member

Get Go

Standard Member
Alan, what server are you currently using on the Foxsat, Twonky or MediaTomb?

I did a bit more testing on the Philips and it is really really weird. Out of the 54 channels I tested it won't play the .ts files from 12 of them. And weirder still it will play Film 4's ts but not Film 4+1's :confused:

Part of me is really pleased that it can actually play so many. Part of me is tormented that it can't play them all.

(It would also seem that there isn't any difference between the 2010 9000series and the 2011 7000series -the issue is the same on both)

DLNA playback of ts files from certain channels
Y=Yes N=No
Channels PhilipsTV
BBC 1 Y
BBC 2 Y
ITV1 Y
Channel 4 N
Channel 4+1 N
Channel 5 N
Channel 5+1 N
BBC 3 Y
BBC 4 Y
ITV1 +1 N
ITV2 Y
ITV2 +1 Y
ITV3 Y
ITV3 +1 Y
ITV4 Y
ITV4 +1 Y
E4 N
E4+1 Y
More4 N
More4 +1 Y
5USA Y
5USA+1 Y
5* Y
5*+1 Y
CBS Drama Y
CBS Reality Y
CBS Reality +1 Y
CBS Action N
Horr Channel N
Horr Channel +1 N
BET Y
BET+1 Y
True Entment Y
Men&Movies Y
BBC News Y
BBC Parliament N
Al Jazeera Y
EuroNews Y
France 24 Y
RT Y
CNN Y
Bloomberg TV Y
CNBC Y
CCTV News Y
Film 4 Y
Film 4+1 N
True Movies 1 Y
True Movies 2 Y
Movies4Men Y
Movies4Men +1 Y
Movies4Men 2 Y
Movies4Men 2 +1 Y
Food Network Y
Food Network +1 Y
 
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REPASSAC

Well-known Member
Thanks for your Reply REPASSAC
So I'm getting the Impression its back to searching for a TV that will play the Humax ts ............

The webif function of recording last steamed iplayer file as an MP4 works on Sony TV so that will play, but although its recorded on the Box and saved as Mp4( I cann't find the origional file I thought it would be something like the 0.ts buffer file) memo to self must enable the new webif sever and view all route files.:facepalm:
but the webif just does the mp4 without pointing to the location of where its come from. so I can't look at first bytes of file before the webif does its bit to mp4.
Not that I would understand it anyway but I have got long way in the past by comparing a know playable header with an unplayable one.
It must be unlike the ts created from on air transmission recordings
.................

Ok you have got me confused - webif is a name for the functionaility of the web interface and its processing functions and does not include the server packages like twonky or mediatomb. As far as I know iplayer files are not saved but it is quite possible they are buffered to 0.ts - where so where do you find the function to save as mp4?.
 

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