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Is the Canon XEED SX50 A HDCP device?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by infomatique, Nov 17, 2004.

  1. infomatique

    infomatique
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    I have an Canon XEED SX50 on order but I am somewhat confused by the listed specification.

    When I first decided to buy I visited a number of Canon sites and the XEED/REALIS SX50 was described as "HD is supported via DVI and Component Video connectors" ... I assumed that this meant that it was a HDCP capable device. However, a few weeks ago I downloaded the manual for the Realis SX50 from the Canon US website and in the manual it was clearly stated that the projector could not display HDCP protected material.

    Over the last few days all Canon sites have added the following statement to their description :

    Features


    HDCP, DVD & HDTV; RGB out


    Does anyone know what the real story is regarding HDCP?
     
  2. Oakleyspatz

    Oakleyspatz
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    As I understand it, all DVI equipped devices are HDCP capable.
    This is a quote from a site listed below:
    "DVI standard originated with Intel and has been widely accepted as the digital connection in the consumer electronics industry. DVI standard is also enabled (or burdened depending on your perspective) with HDCP for content protection."

    The site is: http://www.digiupdate.com/G002_DVI_HDMI_and_HDCP.html#_Toc64160516
     
  3. infomatique

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    Thanks for your reply ... we may be addressing two different issues,see quote from the ISCAN site. If I understand correctly ... if the projector is not HDCP compliant then it is not possible to display material that is protected using HDCP. My problem is that I cannot determine if the Canon XEED SX50 is HDCP compliant ... on their websites they claim it is yet the manual says that it is not.

    If one of your devices is HDCP compliant, but the other is not, then you cannot connect them using DVI or HDMI - you will get an error. However, you can still use the analog signal from the source device (eg: component video signal, S-video signal). HDCP does not apply to analog signals.

     
  4. infomatique

    infomatique
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    In case anyone is interested. I received my Canon XEED on Monday and I can confirm that unit delivered to me is not HDCP capable despite the specification on various Canon sites. The manual also clearly states that it is not.
     
  5. theritz

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    Whatever about the HDCP issue, I'm defintely interested in hearing more about your opinion of it's performance - what are you using to drive it and have you run any HiDef material through it. Spill the beans !!



    Sean G.
     
  6. infomatique

    infomatique
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    Hi Sean,

    For a lengthy discussion relating to my projector visit http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=494756&highlight=xeed

    It would appear that I am one of the few to actually have this unit. Despite some minor negatives which do not impact on me to any great extent the unit is amazing value for money ... there is no screendoor (chicken wire) whatsoever.

    I am using the ISACAN HD+ to feed it from my AV system and the result is stunning. BTW ... you really should consider the ISCAN HD+ (I know that others here recommend other products).

    As a HD source I have a D-VHS D-Theatre unit but because of the DVI/HDCP problem I had to insert a blackbox into the chain.

    If you use a PC as source you will be surprised by the results ... I was able to replay HD DVDs (I can't remember ... if the format knows as WMHD?) using Microsoft's Media Plaver version 10. The results using standard DVDs matched what I could obtain using my Denon DVD-A1 ... a bit worrying considering what I paid for the Denon.
     
  7. theritz

    theritz
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    Thanks for that.....


    ...Aaah the beauty of using a pc as a dvd player......


    Sean.
     
  8. Mr. Wilby

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    Infomatique, what kind of "black box" did you have to use? I'm curious...
     
  9. infomatique

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    Visit here http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Video/DDD12P.ASP
    In theory the unit is a signal amplifier with one input and two outputs.

    Unfortunately they are no longer being manufactured so if you are interested you need to order immediatly if not sooner.

    The unit does work (the external power supply is 110V) but I consider it to be be a bit on the expensive side. However, as I had purchased a D-VHS D-Theatre VCR I did not have much choice.
     
  10. cerebros

    cerebros
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    Only HDMI sockets are 100% HDCP compatible as it's part of the specification - with DVI HDCP is optional.
     
  11. KraGorn

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    Sorry, that is not correct. :)

    As the quote says, 'DVI' is a hardware specification is for the electrical connection between two devices and originated in the PC world. 'HDCP' is a software specification that describes how two A/V machines can exchange copy-protected digital data streams.

    So simply because a device has a DVI connector says nothing about whether it'll support HDCP, that's determined by the firmware. Recent and future devices probably will support HDCP but some recent and those older than about 12 months are more likely not to support it.
     
  12. infomatique

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    Thanks for the information. Do projectors have HDMI inputs?

    To the best of my knowledge, HDMI also transports audio.

    The real problem is that Canon clearly states on many sites (including Germany, UK and USA) that the XEED is HDCP capable. When I received the Projector it was not capable of processing copy protected material (and in the manual there is a statement saying that it cannot process copy protected material). I would suggest that Canon are in breach of the "Trade Description Act" in the UK, I am not sure if the situation is the same here in Ireland and anyway my XEED was purchased in Germany.
     
  13. infomatique

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    Bearing in mind what you wrote above and assuming that you are a reasonable person would you, by reading the following, believe that the XEED was HDCP capable

    SXGA+. Now in compact form.


    Features


    SXGA+ resolution
    AISYS optical system & 2,500 lumens
    LCOS technology
    High 1000:1 contrast ratio
    Wide angle lens
    1.7x zoom
    Vertical/horizontal keystone correction
    HDCP, DVD & HDTV; RGB out
    World's smallest & lightest LCOS projector

    The above is an extract from Canon's UK site.
     
  14. KraGorn

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    I take it you're referring to this page on their web site.

    Reading that I see no other way to interpret that item in the 'feature' list ... they state it supports HDCP, then in the last section say 'HD is supported via DVI', as you quote.

    Since HDCP is currently only associated with DVI and HDMI connections, and since this device doesn't have HDMI, then the only conclusion that's possible is that the DVI connector supports HDCP, no other use of HDCP is possible on that machine as far as I can see.

    And yet you say the manual states HDCP isn't supported. All I can think is that the original model didn't but they've upgraded it, that'd be perfectly feasible it's only be a firmware change and an extra chip AFAIK.
     
  15. Mr. Wilby

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    I'd have to agree. That black box doesn't make any mention of being able to disable (bypass) HDCP on DVI sources, so if your D-Theater is outputting an HDCP signal, and your projector is able to display a picture, it must also be HDCP compatible.
     
  16. infomatique

    infomatique
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    There is no doubt, my XEED cannot process copyright HDCP... If I connect from the VCR to the projector without the blackbox I get nothing but the copyright warning.

    If I put the black box in the chain (VCR - ISCAN - BLACKBOX - XEED) or (VCR - BLACKBOX - XEED) I get perfect results but if the blackbox is removed the copyright notice appears.

    For legal reasons the supplier of the blackbox do not mention its ability to deal with HDCP (this is discussed in great detail at www.avsforum.com) but it is well known that it is a solution which is about to be discontinued.
     
  17. infomatique

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    Thanks for responding.

    Despite the discussion regarding this problem the XEED is great value for money and I highly recommend it.

    If the projector was HDCP capable I soulld be able to connect the D-VHS unit directly to the projector without getting nothing but a warning message telling me that the material is protected and cannot be displayed on my device.

    The problem is that my XEED cannot display D-Theatre (this is my only source of HDCP material) unless the blackbox is in the chain (last item before the XEED). I have researched this a little bit and adding HDCP capability is a bit more complicated than just adding firmware and a chip ... apparently there is a fairly expensive licence.

    BTW the blackbox that I have used is a well known fix to this type of problem.
     
  18. KraGorn

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    Indeed, if that device strips HDCP from its' input and provides unprotected DVI output it's in breach of the HDCP license needed to use the chips that implement HDCP .. I'm surprised AVS is allowing their logo to appear on that page. :rolleyes:

    I think you'll find that implementing HDCP is just some firmware and an HDCP-based transmitter/receiver, at least that's what I read the designers of the Lumagen scaler to have said. The license is $15000 plus royalties on each device sold.
     
  19. Mr. Wilby

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    Very interesting! Do you happen to know the thread location? I've searched on AVS but I can only find one posting which mentions that this box has some "tricks" up its sleeves... :)

    Thanks!
     
  20. infomatique

    infomatique
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    Very few posts refer to it directly.
    Search for Kei then work from there.
    Kei Clark appears to represent the supplier.
     
  21. Branxx

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    Thanks for the infor re DD-D12. I just ordered it from www.pacificcable.com for $230 + shipping + duty + VAT. I expect to be in total around $300, i.e. £160.

    This for me closes the subject of HDCP, Sky HD and all other b/s on this subject.
     

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