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Is tarantino as clever as he thinks he is?

Discussion in 'Movie Forum' started by GalacticaActual, Aug 23, 2005.

  1. GalacticaActual

    GalacticaActual
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    Ok, Was thinking about this last night while watching Kill Bill.

    Would pulp fiction still stand up as a movie if it was played in the order of events?
    would From Dusk Till Dawn have been a better movie with out Tarantinos bit of the film at the start? after all the film plays like 2 different movies.
    Would Kill bill have been better with a bit of trimming down and just been one movie?

    Now I dont dislike these movies but I am just wondering if they really are as clever as he thinks they are , if you see what I mean. :)
     
  2. shaithis

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    Does he really think they are clever? I would hope he doesn't give himself too much credit :rolleyes:

    He knows he is a plagiariser and knows (or at least I hope) that the real clever people are the ones he has stolen all his material from.

    He still make enjoyable films, just a shame you can normally tell what film he has 'made an american version of'.
     
  3. GalacticaActual

    GalacticaActual
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    So actually one of his skills is that he manages to pass of old material as orignal works , then people hale him as a fantasic and original film maker.
     
  4. davidjohnson

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    There is no doubt Kill Bill should have been one film, but Pulp Fiction and Jackie Brown are very good and I much prefer the first half of From Dusk til Dawn.
    I know he borrows the ideas of others, but his dialogue is always a joy.
     
  5. Razor

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    Dusk till Dawn had me smiling all the way through. I thought it was a brilliant idea.

    Pulp Fiction is one of my fav movies as is Resevior Dogs and True Romance (not all Tarrintinos work).

    :)
     
  6. inzaman

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    Same here.

    I too would have liked Kill Bill as one movie as opposed to two parts.
     
  7. phillfyspoon

    phillfyspoon
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    it is the dialogue and charaters which make his films what they are.
     
  8. Mendes

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    Enjoyed Pulp fiction, Jackie Brown and Dusk till dawn. The rest for me were over rated, especially reserviour dogs :boring:
     
  9. Gary D

    Gary D
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    I think Pulp Fiction would work in any order, quality is quality. "you shot marvin in the face?!" Genius. :D

    Dogs is wonderfully inventive and a bit of an urban myth.

    I haven't seen part 2 of kil bill - i heard it was weak compared to part 1 so i thought i'd wait too see the "kill Bill" cut.

    His best film for me is Jackie Brown, his most adult film to date. it doesn't rely on violence and swearing (although it has its fair share of both) like the others, you know for the "tartantino feel".


    Gary
     
  10. Steve T

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    I love Dogs and Pulp Fiction - both very much a product of their times, but still stand up well today. Jackie Brown was also good but I've still only seen that once.

    Kill Bill could have/should have been trimmed to one film. I also found that a lot of the "trademark" Tarantino dialogue now seems contrived and distracting - not good or clever (in fact). I love Kill Bill Vol 1, very much style over substance, but great fun. Kill Bill vol 2, suffered too much from the dialogue issues I mentioned above. Maybe Tarantino is stuck in a '90s timewarp and can't adapt to the 21st Century? Maybe he's a one trick pony - take a pulp genre, throw in some "cool" dialogue and a bit of non-sequential storymaking and VOILA! I hope not, because he has made some great movies.
     
  11. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    I think Kill Bill was originally intended to be a single film, it's just that it was so long the studio (and possibly Tarantino himself) decided much later it needed to be cut up into bite-size chunks.

    I also much preferred the first half of From Dusk Till Dawn. Didn't Tarantino write both halves, though? They started out as two entirely different scripts, of course. (Pulp Fiction was originally three separate scripts!)

    I think Tarantino has a lot of style, and I think, as writer, he can come up with some really top-notch dialogue. One of the things that is so great about Pulp Fiction is the emphasis on dialogue - so many modern films simply lack a decent script of any sort. It's a real breath of fresh air to come across a film where it's actually interesting and entertaining listening to the characters talk to each other.

    Kill Bill is, I think, something of a cinematic joke - it's a pastiche of a genre rather than a self-contained film, with a number of references to specific movies in it. Comparing it to a normal martial arts flick is like comparing Scream to Halloween. But it's stylish, and it's watchable.

    The ordering on Pulp Fiction does matter, and it wouldn't be as effective done linearly. Partly it's a deliberate attempt to evoke a feeling of the French nouvelle vague ("new wave") movement, but there are good reasons why people like Goddard started making films like that in the first place. (I think it was Goddard who said "films should have a beginning, a middle, and an end, but not necessarily in that order"). These reasons are still valid.
     
  12. lovemunkey187

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    I really enjoyed the first one and wasn't as keen on the second. MOst peolpe I know go one of 2 ways, if they like 1 they don't like 2 as much. but if the don't like 1 very much then they enjoy 2 far more.
     
  13. Razor

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    I found it goes like this.

    Men like the first KB and think the second is ok. Women think the first KB is too violent and like the second KB more.

    Then there is Gary :hiya: who only watches half the movie. :D
     
  14. sjp1966

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    I thought Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction were superb, i really enjoyed Kill Bill Pt1 but have not seen Pt2, Jackie Brown i didnt like at all which i thought was strange as i generally like tarantino films.

    I think the attraction is the music, he always has a superb soundtrack.
     
  15. Nebby

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    I really enjoyed Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction and Jackie Brown (may favourite), but didn't think much of Kill Bill version one or two.

    I think the problem with QT is that he's becoming something of a cliche...you know you're going to get quirky pop-culture driven dialogue, a funky soundtrack, and the 're-discovery' of an actor or actress thrown in for good measure (witness the recent CSI season finale, which came complete with Dukes of Hazzard board game and John Saxon).

    In many ways, I think of QT the same way I think about Guy Ritchie, in that they both come across as records stuck in a groove.

    They both burst onto the scene and shook things up..but by now, they've been ripped off by all and sundry, so the impact they created has been diminshed. Although they were the originals (and I use that word advisedly in QT's case), they no longer stand out from all the carbon-copy wannabes.

    Are they both unique talents, or are they one-trick ponies? Can they show us something new?
     
  16. Razor

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    If it aint broke dont fix it. :rolleyes:
     
  17. Nebby

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    Yeah, but while "bacon tastes gooood, and pork chops taste gooood" you'll soon get mighty bored of them if that's all you're served - don't you think?
     
  18. davidjohnson

    davidjohnson
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    A lot of directors have a particular style and often people become used to it and therefore the films may lose impact.

    Maybe in a few years we will be criticising Wes Anderson or Alexander Payne as being one trick ponies?
     
  19. Nebby

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    Possibly with Wes Anderson, as there are certain "signature notes" and the same slightly skewed sense of humour running through The Life Aquatic, The Royal Tenenbaums and Rushmore.

    I'm not sure if the same can be said of Alexander Payne - I really enjoyed Sideways and Election, but I didn't realise until now that they were both directed by him.

    Of course, for the ultimate in one-trick ponies, you should have said Paul WS Anderson, rather than Wes Anderson...that guy has a habit of turning out dog, after dog, after dog!
     
  20. davidjohnson

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    Renny Harlin also comes to mind.
     
  21. Steve T

    Steve T
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    Nebby - I object! Guy Ritchie did show us something new....Swept Away :D

    Oh....you said "something new", I thought you said "something poo".
     
  22. Nebby

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    Ahh yes...the wonder that is Swept Away.

    Another masterful performance by Her Madge. I suspect that she'll never hear the words "and the Oscar for best performance in a female leading role goes to" before her name!
     
  23. CrispyXUK

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    I must be the only person who doesnt rate QT at all :(
     
  24. HMHB

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    I like a lot of his stuff but found the dialogue in Kill Bill quite tedious and maybe self-indulgent. Having said that, I think I'll watch it all again over the weekend :D
     
  25. west

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    Nebby, which carbon copy wannabes does Tarantino not stand out from? Hollywood is full of mediocre directors and mediocre films, trying to appeal to the "mass market" with a majority of big-screen releases suitable for 12 year-olds and younger. Tarantino films are like no other with unashamedly adult material which guarantees to entertain. I don't class his films as only the ones he has directed but has written as well. It's often forgotten that he wrote Natural born Killers which is pure Tarantino along with the more recognised true romance and from dusk till Dawn. Personally I wish he would release more films more often because there are a serious lack of films that are anything like a Tarantino movie and a definite niche in the market.
     
  26. lovemunkey187

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    I was the same regarding Jackie Brown. Rushed to see this when it came out at the pictures, but was disappointed with it. I think that it may have been to do with it being an adaptation of someone else book and not all of his own work.
     
  27. Gary D

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    i'd wager it had more to do with "pulp fiction" and "dogs" eveyone expected another blood soaked, wise cracking affair but they got an intelligent, thoughtfulm superbly played, well crafted adult movie. i know loads of people who told me it was rubbish - but for me it stands head and shoulders above the others - best direction, best score, best acting - its just his best film for me - certainly hios most mature. Added to which its Elmore Leonard - genius :smashin:

    I shiver goes down my spine when Bobby Womack clears his throat in DTS and that song kicks in :D

    Gary
     
  28. Fast Jon

    Fast Jon
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    100% with you on this, Mendes. The beginning of RD was superb, but for me it all got a bit tedious once they got to the hideout.

    Spot on there, Gary. Story, script, performances, sound, cinematog all top drawer.

    I wouldn't criticise him too much for reworking certain material. I'm sure he regards it as paying homage. In any case, his less than satisfying work is still well ahead of mainstream Hollywood dross.
    Slightly OT, but for me personally the Coens are at the top of the tree and have been for some time. Inventive, stimulating movies. If it says 'Coen' somewhere on the poster I'll want to see it.
     
  29. inzaman

    inzaman
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    I have only seen a few Coen movies, but i have liked all of them that i have seen. I might have to hunt a few more down.
     
  30. pRot3us

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    No. I won't even bother commenting on QT tbh.The fact that he earns so much praise from certain quarters just goes to show what a sorry state hollywood is in these days :(

    I agree, of all the recent hollywood directors, The Coen's must rank near the top (which isn't difficult in all honesty :D )

    Barton Fink and The Man Who Wasn't There are brilliant films :thumbsup: :smashin:
     

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