Is Rainbow effect still as prevalent on DLP Projectors?

archie2000

Active Member
When I was looking for my first projector around 5 years ago, I viewed a DLP full HD projector and noticed the rainbow effect in a few scenes of the demo film. Due to this, I only really had the option to buy an Epson 3LCD projector, which was the EH-TW6100.
This has been a brilliant projector to be honest, and I am only just coming up to 2550 hrs on the lamp, so no doubt this will need changing soon.
However, I am now looking to go 4K UHD, so I will be in the market for a replacement. I noticed that the Epson 4k projectors are not true 4k, but enhanced 4k whereas all of the 4k DLP projectors are. I understand that there is a quality difference between the enhanced and true 4k, but is it massive, or only noticeable to purists?
My main question though is, due to newer technology, has the rainbow effect in DLP projectors lessened in the 5 years since I last watched one, or is it about the same? If so, I would more than likely stick with an Epson model, which is a shame because there is more choice of DLP projectors than 3LCD projectors.
I am planning to do a few projector demo's anyway, but just thought I would check in advance.
 
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GrazzaB

Well-known Member
Hi @archie2000

I tried an Optoma - I think it was the UHD65, it was a 4K compatible model anyway, and demoing a film it was absolutely full of rainbow effect artefacts for me. Obviously you may be different in how much it affects you but after ten minutes I’d had enough and I felt disappointed that the tech didn’t seem to have moved on at all, certainly not at a reasonable budget anyway.

Edit: as an update I very much doubt you’d be disappointed with the Epson 9400 LCD PJ, it is faux 4K but will give you a fantastic image and really, wider colour gamut is more impressive to me than the pure resolution jump in any case.

All the best with it
 

archie2000

Active Member
Cheers @GrazzaB for your observations. It was kind of what I expected sadly.
That Epson 9400 looks awesome, but a tad above what I would like to pay at the moment. It might come down significantly around black Friday, (preferably below £2000).
I have set myself a budget of around £1500, but I might stretch to £2000 if it does.
I've been looking at the EpsonTW- 7100 as a likely contender for my current price range.

When I got my EH-TW6100, it's list price was £1600, but I got an open box deal over a bank holiday weekend sale from Superfi which brought it down to £880 which I snapped their hand off for!
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
I tried an Optoma - I think it was the UHD65, it was a 4K compatible model anyway, and demoing a film it was absolutely full of rainbow effect artefacts for me
yes this has been my experience too.. rainbow city...left right and centre !

very unfortunately the rainbow effect is back and with a vengeance !

ITs due i beleive to the higher lumens output of projectors these days and being single chip needing the colour wheel

kind of what I expected sadly.
yes sadly DLP along with the rainbow situation also seem to have gone down the toilet when comes to contrast when comes to current gen..

am sure this will turn around in good time.... as newer gen product comes to market but for moment it is what it is
 

GrazzaB

Well-known Member
@archie2000 you would be able to get a used 9400 for around your budget if you’re lucky and I think the warranty is transferable. Alternatively you’ll be able to get a used 9300, which still does 4K HDR at 24p (not 60) for way under your budget and that will be a giant leap up from what you’ve got. They normally go for around 1000-1250 used.
 

archie2000

Active Member
@GrazzaB I must admit, I've not looked at the used market. Looking on here just now, I can see that the 9400 and 9300 are quite rare, but do turn up occasionally. I'll keep monitoring. Cheers 👍
 

archie2000

Active Member
@alebonau Yeah, it is a great shame as there is certainly far more choice of make and model for DLP projectors out there, not to mention a better price range.
I think I will still demo one though, and I'll take my other half with me as she has dodgy eyesight. Although she did say to me before I bought my previous projector that she wouldn't be able to see the 3D effects as she has never been able to view any other 3D products.
Turns out she was wrong!!! 🤣
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
@alebonau Yeah, it is a great shame as there is certainly far more choice of make and model for DLP projectors out there, not to mention a better price range.
I think I will still demo one though, and I'll take my other half with me as she has dodgy eyesight. Although she did say to me before I bought my previous projector that she wouldn't be able to see the 3D effects as she has never been able to view any other 3D products.
Turns out she was wrong!!! 🤣
archie, i always suggest folk check out for them selves... and yes if buying for family its worth taking family as never know they might be susceptible ...not everyone notices rainbows... many years ago...i as dead set to get a DLP...until i went over a friends place and in extended viewing i suddenly started noticing something and asked what was that... and that... and explaining what i was seeing it was told well thats DLP... rainbows [email protected] shame as picture then even though 720p was quite fine otherwise... since then i haven't been able to stop noticing them :D

if looking optoma.. and in epson 9400 there about price point... also check out the DLP in benq 5700... if getting dip personally i would get that over the optoma :)
 

Spigot

Active Member
Haven't seen a rainbow in years. You're more likely to see them in the first few hours when bulbs are still at max output. DLP's are sharper and have better motion resolution with no colour fringing, I just find it very relaxing to look at, always found LCD to be plasticky/artificial looking - YMMV. Optoma seem to make better lenses with more uniform focus than Epson, and also seem to be good at keeping dust out of the light engine.

The problem I have with 4K projectors is that you're getting a uniquely compromised image since they can't do HDR or WCG. Maybe stick with 2K unless you want Epson etc doing their own colour regrading for every film you watch. Finally, if you have a white ceiling then buy cheap since you won't see the benefits of better contrast specs. Having said all that, good luck with your purchase.
 

archie2000

Active Member
Haven't seen a rainbow in years. You're more likely to see them in the first few hours when bulbs are still at max output. DLP's are sharper and have better motion resolution with no colour fringing, I just find it very relaxing to look at, always found LCD to be plasticky/artificial looking - YMMV. Optoma seem to make better lenses with more uniform focus than Epson, and also seem to be good at keeping dust out of the light engine.

The problem I have with 4K projectors is that you're getting a uniquely compromised image since they can't do HDR or WCG. Maybe stick with 2K unless you want Epson etc doing their own colour regrading for every film you watch. Finally, if you have a white ceiling then buy cheap since you won't see the benefits of better contrast specs. Having said all that, good luck with your purchase.
@Spigot Thank you for your comments, much appreciated.
I intend to demo one or two projectors at Richer Sounds, and they have even offered me a loan of one to try at home for 2 weeks, so hopefully the bulb would be well bedded in by then. To be honest, I do wonder if I will only notice rainbows if I go looking for them rather than relaxing, taking in the whole image and enjoying the film/programme. But I know that because this rainbow effect exists, I will be conscious of it. I do appreciate the projected image will not be as good as my 4k Samsung TV, but I would like to step up on what I am seeing currently from my HD projector. I have a dedicated cinema room, with dark ceilings and walls (not black) which I can darken quite considerably, even during the day, so I do have improved contrast when viewing just HD.
 

sim12

Well-known Member
The rainbow effect is almost non existent on laser dlp pj's but this comes at a cost but this can be offset to a certain extent when you look at the longevity of the projector, never having to replace a bulb and the image never dimming.
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
I dont know why would say that, as not true in my experience ... which has included the optoma uhz65 which is laser driven, and which have checked out from curiosity...the rainbow effect is very much present and like even the lamp version...even more so with its greater luminance output being even more obvious i think... this is still a single chip, colour wheel projector and yep you get rainbows ... rainbow city i see them all the time....

the youtube below by spare change talks about this briefly... he says he can see them all the time too... if want... but can ignore them, not focus on them...not sure how does that... drives me batty :D maybe you dont see them or can somehow ignore ...


what is true as we more colour lasers eg dual laser or RGB laser the need for colour wheel will vanish...but till then we are stuck with it ? dual laser/rgb is still enormously expensive... also lamp cost is a furphy ....my lamp projector came with a bonus lamp ...with hours can manage with lamps be about 10 years before i need to buy one...i usually purchase new projectors every 3-4 years given the advance of tech....love my projector never know might keep it longer ... but 10 years is still a long time ....and after all that time buying one lamp is a low cost I think rather than buying a whole new projector ...projectors like epson are very low cost on lamps....so even if changed them over ...cost vs buying a much more expensive laser doesnt stack up...

ps talking about laser and optoma the other stupid thing with the optoma uhz65 is it cant do 3D ... not sure related to the laser or base chip or something ...but no 3D ...booo !
 

sim12

Well-known Member
I dont know why would say that, as not true in my experience ... which has included the optoma uhz65 which is laser driven, and which have checked out from curiosity...the rainbow effect is very much present and like even the lamp version...even more so with its greater luminance output being even more obvious i think... this is still a single chip, colour wheel projector and yep you get rainbows ... rainbow city i see them all the time....

the youtube below by spare change talks about this briefly... he says he can see them all the time too... if want... but can ignore them, not focus on them...not sure how does that... drives me batty :D maybe you dont see them or can somehow ignore ...


what is true as we more colour lasers eg dual laser or RGB laser the need for colour wheel will vanish...but till then we are stuck with it ? dual laser/rgb is still enormously expensive... also lamp cost is a furphy ....my lamp projector came with a bonus lamp ...with hours can manage with lamps be about 10 years before i need to buy one...i usually purchase new projectors every 3-4 years given the advance of tech....love my projector never know might keep it longer ... but 10 years is still a long time ....and after all that time buying one lamp is a low cost I think rather than buying a whole new projector ...projectors like epson are very low cost on lamps....so even if changed them over ...cost vs buying a much more expensive laser doesnt stack up...

ps talking about laser and optoma the other stupid thing with the optoma uhz65 is it cant do 3D ... not sure related to the laser or base chip or something ...but no 3D ...booo !
I was referring to 3led laser dlp projector hence cost vs reward I perhaps should of been more clear about that, and yes I agree any colour wheel dlp pj I have seen in person the rainbow effect is pretty bad.
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
I was referring to 3led laser dlp projector hence cost vs reward I perhaps should of been more clear about that, and yes I agree any colour wheel dlp pj I have seen in person the rainbow effect is pretty bad.
hi, LED and Laser are two different light sources, were were talking about laser only.... hybrid LED laser are rare as hens teeth.

also LED has its drawbacks as light source too.. and you dont usually use 3LED in a laser-led hybrid projector

its true 3LED projectors(just as 3 laser RGB) would dispense with colour wheels... and benq make 3LED, however these have been very expensive the variants i have seen and actually not that impressive in the picture for the money...so perhaps some ways to go yet...
 

ask4me2

Active Member
The rainbow effect is almost non existent on laser dlp pj's but this comes at a cost but this can be offset to a certain extent when you look at the longevity of the projector, never having to replace a bulb and the image never dimming.
Have not seen how non existent rainbows are on these, but as long as only one dmd chip is used and the primary colors are shown in a sequence one by one and newer at the same time, I guess the viewer that is sensible to this still will see this.

I guess a rgb laser based DLP projector with no colorwheel can be made wery realible, it is often the spinning colorwheel and the sensor used for sync that fails on these.

It is true that Lasers often is used so they have a much longer half life than the UHP bulb, but that does not mean that a laser projector will newer be dimmer with use.
 

sim12

Well-known Member
This web page explains perfectly in regards to laser pj or not.

 

archie2000

Active Member
To be honest, the laser solution, whilst being superior in some ways, is not an option due to cost. I appreciate that in the longer term it would potentially prove cost effective, it's not a consideration at this moment in time.
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
To be honest, the laser solution, whilst being superior in some ways, is not an option due to cost. I appreciate that in the longer term it would potentially prove cost effective, it's not a consideration at this moment in time.
I think in the longer term things with laser will improve but for the moment the problem with laser is currently still yes cost...eg the optoma in question the price it goes for, there are much better picture capable bulb projectors to be had that are same or less in price ... in my country for instance you can pick up the true native 4k jvc n5 and n7 for same price or less than the optoma and there is no comparison really picture wise. I dont know what has happened with DLP for instance, but their contrast is very poor with 4k uhd release models ...and rainbow effect all the worse...
 

sim12

Well-known Member
To be honest, the laser solution, whilst being superior in some ways, is not an option due to cost. I appreciate that in the longer term it would potentially prove cost effective, it's not a consideration at this moment in time.
When the likes of the epson 9400 are about £2500 And replacement lamps for just under £100, there is really nothing to compete with that at the price point.
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
When the likes of the epson 9400 are about £2500 And replacement lamps for just under £100, there is really nothing to compete with that at the price point.
there is benq 5700... but no idea what its lamps go for ....
 

ask4me2

Active Member
This web page explains perfectly in regards to laser pj or not.


They pointed out some of the pros and cons for lasers, but i do not know how well that actually was written.

One example:

"When you compare a traditional lamp projector to a laser projector side by side in a dark room, it is obvious the laser projector is much brighter."

I guess this is highly dependent on the projector models that are compared, not what kind of light source used.

"However, the laser projector can also maintain that brightness over time, whereas the lamp bulb in a traditional projector will begin to dim within even 10 minutes of use. A 5000-lumen laser projector will still produce 5000-lumens after 2 years of use."


2 years of use can be everything from 2-4 hours a week x 52 x 2 ~ 200-400 hours to running 24 * 7 * 52 * 2 = 17472 hours.

in 2 years with continuous 24-7 use, the laser will be close to its half-life of 20 000 hour, and will be closer to 2500 lumens than 5000.

A lamp-based projector needs lots of lamp changes in that running time but will get to 100% of new light output every time the new lamp is put in. (if the light engine is to survive that heavy use)
 

archie2000

Active Member
When the likes of the epson 9400 are about £2500 And replacement lamps for just under £100, there is really nothing to compete with that at the price point.
I don't intend to spend that much. My budget is £1500. I said in an earlier post that I may push it out to £2000 if the 9400 reduces in price significantly on Black Friday, or a good second hand deal comes up.
 

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