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Is my TV broken? - The limitations of technology

Stuartj1

Active Member
Great article. You must have been reading some of the owners threads?
 

google

Distinguished Member
Thanks Steve. At the end of the second to last paragraph you've put 'OLD' instead of oled.

Cheers.
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member
Great article Steve as always, although it just goes to show that buying any new tv is a bit of a lottery as to whether you will get one with "faults" or just that it is what it is and be happy with what you have.:)
 

Steve Withers

Reviewer
Thanks Steve. At the end of the second to last paragraph you've put 'OLD' instead of old. Cheers.
Corrected, thanks. Hopefully OLED won't be old just yet!
 

SonOfSJ

Well-known Member
You're on a roll, Mr Withers! Another reference article which should be essential reading for all, especially those people on the forums who return set after set. Perhaps I've just been lucky with my own sets so far, even my LG which I didn't initially like.
 

SonOfSJ

Well-known Member
In your second-last sentence you say "This is especially important if you're spending a lot of money so, if you think a certain issue might annoy you, go and look at the TV yourself to make sure.". The only problem with that is for potential purchases of OLEDs and the dark edges (vignetting) which is visible on some screens, with certain material. It can be difficult, or impossible to see dark material, in a dark environment (which might show the fault) in a typical John Lewis or Currys shop. Some shops don't even allow customers to plug in their own USB sticks which might have the revealing material. The last time I was in such a shop was a week ago, at Currys / PC World in Braehead, outside Glasgow. This store has the largest collection of televisions in Scotland. Among the televisions on display was the LG 4K flat OLED 65EF950V, and I have to say that with the (4K) material that it was showing, it's possibly the most captivating picture that I've ever seen in a shop, it looked even better than the very large Samsung UE78JS9500 about 20 metres away which was also showing very striking material. But, there was little chance of seeing dark material on the LG, and even less chance of getting the Currys staff to dim the lights in the huge shop just to see if the LG showed vignetting .......
 

MrBungle2005

Active Member
Great article Steve as always, although it just goes to show that buying any new tv is a bit of a lottery as to whether you will get one with "faults" or just that it is what it is and be happy with what you have.:)
The trouble is, that "buying", "new", and "lottery" are words that really shouldn't exist in the same sentence. Every other household item doesn't have the same stipulation when buying new.
 

Steve Withers

Reviewer
In your second-last sentence you say "This is especially important if you're spending a lot of money so, if you think a certain issue might annoy you, go and look at the TV yourself to make sure.". The only problem with that is for potential purchases of OLEDs and the dark edges (vignetting) which is visible on some screens, with certain material. It can be difficult, or impossible to see dark material, in a dark environment (which might show the fault) in a typical John Lewis or Currys shop. Some shops don't even allow customers to plug in their own USB sticks which might have the revealing material. The last time I was in such a shop was a week ago, at Currys / PC World in Braehead, outside Glasgow. This store has the largest collection of televisions in Scotland. Among the televisions on display was the LG 4K flat OLED 65EF950V, and I have to say that with the (4K) material that it was showing, it's possibly the most captivating picture that I've ever seen in a shop, it looked even better than the very large Samsung UE78JS9500 about 20 metres away which was also showing very striking material. But, there was little chance of seeing dark material on the LG, and even less chance of getting the Currys staff to dim the lights in the huge shop just to see if the LG showed vignetting .......
It's true that demoing TVs isn't easy these days, not only due to the staff in the store receiving limited training but also because the conditions are never ideal (unless they a dedicated demo room) and some issues are hard to identify without dedicated test patterns.
 

Har-One

Member
Excellent article. A good reminder to call off the search for the perfect TV.
 

gigglebug

Active Member
It's true that demoing TVs isn't easy these days, not only due to the staff in the store receiving limited training but also because the conditions are never ideal (unless they a dedicated demo room) and some issues are hard to identify without dedicated test patterns.
I know that the electrical retailer that I work for are more than happy for customers to have a demo set at home for a period of time to test them in their own surroundings, it's called " Being On Approval". I'm sure we can't be the only ones to offer this service??
 

SonOfSJ

Well-known Member
I know that the electrical retailer that I work for are more than happy for customers to have a demo set at home for a period of time to test them in their own surroundings, it's called " Being On Approval". I'm sure we can't be the only ones to offer this service??
Er, you probably are the only ones to offer that service, whoever you are ..... What a shame that more people can't know who you are!
 

google

Distinguished Member
When you spend three thousand pounds or more on a television it shouldn't be a lottery. It's that simple.
I don't think we would see much technical advancement if TV manufacturers charging over £3000 for a TV had to make sure every TV they produce is near perfect quality. As an example, the makers of oled wouldn't at this stage make a decision to halt production for a few years until they perfect it. I dont think we would want them to either?

It shouldn't be underestimated how difficult it must be to manufacture these latest UHD TV's.
 

BrightonChris

Distinguished Member
I'm not saying that every TV should be perfect, I'm saying that if two people by the same TV they should be pretty much the same and not have the massive differences in light bleed, uniformity etc.
 

SonOfSJ

Well-known Member
I think that now, in 2015, people are not willing to pay the true cost of high-end televisions. So, LG's 4K OLED 65EF950V is now about £4k, half the price of the Panasonic 4K OLED 65CZ952B. But the Panasonic doesn't have vignetting. So maybe 8 grand is what it actually costs to produce a reliable set, without vignetting the degree of which varies from sample to sample? The Pioneer LX5090 plasma television, which was a top product when it was released in August 2008, cost £2350, Pioneer Kuro PDP-LX5090 50in Plasma TV - Pioneer Kuro PDP-LX5090 which would nowadays seem a lot (without even allowing for that price seven years ago being worth more than now, because of inflation) for a 50-inch set with no 3D, no 4K and no smart features. But that was the price that Pioneer felt that the set cost and that people would pay, including me a year later. And it was reliable. Didn't stop Pioneer leaving the television business though, this was their last generation plasma.

Good stuff costs money, sometimes plenty money. Televisions like these are luxury items after all.
 

google

Distinguished Member
I'm not saying that every TV should be perfect, I'm saying that if two people by the same TV they should be pretty much the same and not have the massive differences in light bleed, uniformity etc.
I know what you are saying and that's why I responded to your comment in the way I did.
 

gigglebug

Active Member
Er, you probably are the only ones to offer that service, whoever you are ..... What a shame that more people can't know who you are!
No free advertising I would guess!! A customer can take an item home for a trial period then decide to return it if is isn't to their liking. I'm not sure if it has to be paid for or not before hand, I would guess it does! I don't actually work in the shops though, I return the faulty stock to the suppliers. I've personally had expensive Hifi separates on home demo in the past before I worked in electrical retail though so I thought it must be a general thing?? Would seem like good service to me!
 

NickInWiltshire

Well-known Member
Two interesting stories from the early days of CDs which are applicable.

1. A retailer who turned the volume on an amp up to max in the gap between tracks to show there was absolutely no noise - and blew everyone's brains out when the next track started. Makes me think of people trying to "see" detail in the near black region on an OLED and then complaining when it shows them a lot of blocks. Too clean for its own good.

2. On the other hand early CD players often sounded harsh and many people noticed it. The manufacturers said it was "perfect" and people just weren't used to hearing high frequencies so clearly. But it turned out it was due to nonlinearity of the DACs which was later fixed. Again OLEDs do seem to show some similar issues which could well be fixed in later models. But if you buy a TV now you are buying whatever is possible now. You can't swap your way to an engineering breakthrough. :D
 

Hixs

Distinguished Member
I just learnt a lot about TV's in one small article. Props to you, good sir!
 

vaktmestern

Banned
Great article. :smashin: Maybe a few Get a eye opener.
 

Roohster

Distinguished Member
We've come a long way since CRT technology.
Oh, wait... no we haven't :p

In the search for bigger, brighter, thinner panels with ever-increasing resolution, a lot of compromises seem to have been made along the way.
It's not a reassuring time to be buying a tv.
 

jfinnie

Distinguished Member
However, although we have seen signs of screen burn on pre-production samples at shows and have heard reports of image retention, we should stress that neither issue was present on any of the OLED TVs that we have tested to date.

You wouldn't see it on review sets, no one in their right mind would be sending out TV's with thousands of hours on them for review, which is what would be necessary for you to be seeing it. It is hard to believe that OLED TVs won't suffer from image retention, as every incarnation of the technology to date has, and there haven't been any breakthroughs in the underlying tech here. I pity anyone watching any significant amount of rolling news on these sets...
 

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