Answered Is it worth getting floorstanders for 2.1 system?

[BarKohba]

Hello,

Currently, I've got a pair of Yamaha NS B750 bookshelf speakers hooked up to a Yamaha 803D Stereo Receiver. I'm going to get a subwoofer for them (most probably the SW700 from yamaha since it's the same series and fits well visually and tonally) - however, my dealer told me he's can give me a great deal (very small money difference) if I want to return the B750s and exchange them for a pair of NS-F700 (Basically the tower variant, has an extra large woofer per channel that goes all the way down to 45hz, whereas the B750 go to 60hz).

I'm very tempted to do that, but I don't know if it's REALLY worth it considering I'm getting a sub anyway, and that the receiver (through yamaha's YPAO calibration) will manage the crossover (generally it will send about above 100hz to the speakers and let the sub deal with the rest). Is there ANY benefit in getting the tower speakers (considering they're basically the same with added bass driver) ? Will I get an audio improvement or will the receiver simply bypass the low frequencies altogether on the tower and basically render the bottom driver useless, "transforming" the F700 into the B750 (2 way speaker) and the bass will be handled by the sub entirely?

thanks!

 

[gibbsy]

The floorstanders don't go that deep, certainly not as deep as some current bookshelf speakers currently available, so they would still need a sub woofer to fill in the bottom end, although they do go considerably deeper than your current B750s. You would be better off getting a good sub woofer, something that would also go with further speaker upgrades.

If you are looking for a sub then don't think you have to stick with Yamaha, there are far better out there depending on availability in your country. SVS, REL and BK Electronics are all superior to Yamaha.

 

[BarKohba]

The floorstanders don't go that deep, certainly not as deep as some current bookshelf speakers currently available, so they would still need a sub woofer to fill in the bottom end, although they do go considerably deeper than your current B750s. You would be better off getting a good sub woofer, something that would also go with further speaker upgrades.

If you are looking for a sub then don't think you have to stick with Yamaha, there are far better out there depending on availability in your country. SVS, REL and BK Electronics are all superior to Yamaha.

The only other subs I tested were the Triangle Thetis 280, SVS SB2000 and and Klispch SPL 100 (in the same price bracket as the Yamaha). While I DID notice that the SVS was quite a lot louder, the Triangle and Yamaha (for my ears, of course, maybe for your ears the SW700 wasn't to your taste) were much more precise (less boomy) and were also much much less fussy about location (the Yamaha is bottom firing and the Triangle i think as well , if i recall correctly). So the SVS is a powerhouse, but the Yamaha sounded pretty much more refined and precise.

But that's beyond the point tbh - my question is (it might apply rather in general, not necessarily for my exact setup) - if I'm going to get a SUB, is it worth upgrading from bookshelves to towers, or is the audio quality difference small to none and I should just stick to my Bookshelves?

 

[gibbsy]

Stick with the bookshelf.

 

[BarKohba]

Stick with the bookshelf.

So there's 0 advantages for getting the tower version of the same bookshelf speaker? The crossover point between the mid and woofer on the tower is 700hz. The Sub goes all the way to nearly 200hz. Assuming the crossover would be at about 90hz, there's till quite a chunk of freq range (90hz to 700hz) that would be handled by the 3rd extra driver on the tower, as opposed of all of that information (90hz to 4khz) being handled by the one driver on the bookshelf. Would the 90hz-4khz workload being split by a 5 inch and 6.5 inch drivers not benefit the sound quality as opposed of all of that freq range being reproduced by a single 5 inch driver?

 

[muljao]

The only reason I'd change would be if I got a set of speakers that negated the need for a sub, less wires, less clutter, more simple setup

 

[Don Dadda]

Is this for music or films or both?

If your budget allows it , you can look at other makes of floorstanders that can go deeper. Won't be as low as the sub but it could get the job done without need for a sub. But as it stands, i agree with gibbsy on needing a sub with those Yamaha floorstanders.

 

[BarKohba]

Is this for music or films or both?

If your budget allows it , you can look at other makes of floorstanders that can go deeper. Won't be as low as the sub but it could get the job done without need for a sub. But as it stands, i agree with gibbsy on needing a sub with those Yamaha floorstanders.

It's for Music. But i'm not asking whether i need a sub. I'm GOING to get a sub 100%. I'm just asking if it's worth keeping the bookshelves (with sub), or exchange them with the floorstanders (also with sub) - is there any audio advantage between bookshelves with subs vs floorstanders with sub?

 

[Don Dadda]

.. is there any audio advantage between bookshelves with subs vs floorstanders with sub?

There is a lot of dependencies for that question, i.e room size, layout, flooring types of music being listened to, without even getting to which speakers and or sub. As menrioned before, you may not need a sub if the floorstanders can do the job. I have a sub and floorstanders but only use the sub for films because my floorstanders are more than capable or reaching the bass levels i need for music.

However, for you and your particular circumstances, and you are 100% getting a sub then stick with the bookshelves.

 

[BarKohba]

There is a lot of dependencies for that question, i.e room size, layout, flooring types of music being listened to, without even getting to which speakers and or sub. As menrioned before, you may not need a sub if the floorstanders can do the job. I have a sub and floorstanders but only use the sub for films because my floorstanders are more than capable or reaching the bass levels i need for music.

However, for you and your particular circumstances, and you are 100% getting a sub then stick with the bookshelves.

Yup, thanks, I'm looking for opinions on people who maybe experimented with both. I would like to have floorstanders that goo really low, but the issue is they are waaaaay expensive. My bookshelves go to 60hz, and the floorstanding version to 45hz. That's not THE BEST low end extension, but taking into consideration a few factors as cost (very few speakers go lower than 40 at this price) and the remainder of the freq range - these NS 700 speakers sound ABSOLUTELY AMAZING from mids and especially to highs - very natural, that's why I got them (go up to 50khz) - i'm interested in the superb mids and highs they give, but want to complement them with generous lows - so getting for example some Wherfdale or Monitor Audios that go to 30hz or so isn't an option - I auditioned them and they do not sound nearly as good (for my ears) besides the low end extension.

I quite like how my bookshevlves look with these triangle stands i got for them (look way sexier than the floorstanders) - but considering the minimal upgrade price (and the fact that i'm 100% getting a sub) I was wondering if it was worth it sound-wise.

 

[Ugg10]

Also worth noting that if you look in the manuals for the speakers the frequency range is quoted at -10db at the low end whereas a lot of manufacturers quote either -3db (f3) or -6db (f6). -10db point is probably more relevant to the sound but be careful when comparing specs.

The NS-SW700 is a 10" 300W downward firing sub that is quoted as operating from 20-160hz, but the manual does not qualifies this with a roll off point but may again be -10db if they follow their own convention.

However, if the price you are willing to pay is the only price I can find which is £550 then you will be paying a lot for the Yamaha brand and the funky looks. The BK Electronics P12-300sb-df in gloss black is £475, has a 12" driver and will go "lower than 200hz at -3db" and I would suggest may sound better for a similar look. With these you are buying direct form the factory so cur out the middle man markup and so offer very good VFM. The XLS200-df is the next step down the ladder and is £405 in gloss black with a 10" it is more comparable to the Yamaha but has a 17hz -6db quoted.

Platinum P12300-SB

Finally, assuming you tick with the book shelf and add a sub be sure to run the RN803 room EQ system again to set the level of the sub and the speakers and to remove any unwanted room reflections.

 

[BarKohba]

Also worth noting that if you look in the manuals for the speakers the frequency range is quoted at -10db at the low end whereas a lot of manufacturers quote either -3db (f3) or -6db (f6). -10db point is probably more relevant to the sound but be careful when comparing specs.

The NS-SW700 is a 10" 300W downward firing sub that is quoted as operating from 20-160hz, but the manual does not qualifies this with a roll off point but may again be -10db if they follow their own convention.

However, if the price you are willing to pay is the only price I can find which is £550 then you will be paying a lot for the Yamaha brand and the funky looks. The BK Electronics P12-300sb-df in gloss black is £475, has a 12" driver and will go "lower than 200hz at -3db" and I would suggest may sound better for a similar look. With these you are buying direct form the factory so cur out the middle man markup and so offer very good VFM. The XLS200-df is the next step down the ladder and is £405 in gloss black with a 10" it is more comparable to the Yamaha but has a 17hz -6db quoted.

Platinum P12300-SB

Finally, assuming you tick with the book shelf and add a sub be sure to run the RN803 room EQ system again to set the level of the sub and the speakers and to remove any unwanted room reflections.

Thanks for the heads up! looks nice, very similar to the Triangle one I tested. The advantage the Yamaha had is a sort of channelway unter the sub to channel the soundwaves around, made it less prone to positioning thatn the Triangle sub (which is basically almost identical in looks, sans the paint, with the Platinum, but I bet the Platinum is a much better value).

However I'm getting the SW700 directly from the distributor for 389 GBP (equivalent, I live in Romania so it's LEI).

 

[Don Dadda]

You are quite right.

Speakers that can go below 40hz tend to be on the more expensive side, unless you go second hand. Even then, they are few and far between if you are looking at more newer than older speakers.
My speakers RRP was over £1k and a year old but i was fortunate enough to get ex display in excellent condition for half that. And admittedly it was by chance that i got them by asking if they would sell them.

Since you like your speakers, adding a sub should get what you need. I don't know the sub in question but when you do get it, you might need someone to help you integrate it with your bookshelves. I.e, you listen while they set the crossover

I 2nd the BK subs. For the money paid, they are very hard to beat. Before you part with the cash for the yamaha, at least take a look

B.K. Electronics Homepage

Also subwoofers are meant be omnidirectional. So you should be able to place them anywhere without being able to pinpoint where the sound is coming from. That may not be the case for all of them mind you

 

[BarKohba]

You are quite right.

Speakers that can go below 40hz tend to be on the more expensive side, unless you go second hand. Even then, they are few and far between if you are looking at more newer than older speakers.
My speakers RRP was over £1k and a year old but i was fortunate enough to get ex display in excellent condition for half that. And admittedly it was by chance that i got them by asking if they would sell them.

Since you like your speakers, adding a sub should get what you need. I don't know the sub in question but when you do get it, you might need someone to help you integrate it with your bookshelves. I.e, you listen while they set the crossover

Thats why I got a Yamaha receiver - YPAO. It uses a mic that you position at ears level in your atandard listening position and it auto calibrates the crossover and some other stuff for optimal sound. I read a lot of impressions on forums and the vast majority of people are very pleased with the result.

 

[Don Dadda]

Oh ok. Didn't know it had that capability