Is it time for the Bond movies to die? - AVF Movies Podcast Discussion Thread

Tom Davies

Editorial Contributor
Good morning 007, and welcome again to this month's AVF Movies Podcast discussion thread.

The next Movies Podcast hosted by @Casimir Harlow, @Simon Crust and @Mark Costello will be livestreaming on our YouTube channel on Wednesday 6th October 2021 at 7:30pm

This month we'll be discussing the Bond movies we grew up with, our favourites in the franchise and whether or not the time has come to say goodbye to the character.

But we also want to know if you think Bond has had his day or whether you'd like to see him carry on regenerating like Doctor Who until the end of time.

The most interesting responses will be discussed on the podcast!

- Maybe it's an obvious question but which Bond movie do you feel most personally attached to?
(Not necessarily the objective best, but the one that means the most to you)

- What do you think of Craig's tenure as 007? Has he been a good Bond? What even makes a good Bond?

- How should Bond carry on? What would you do with the character in a perfect world?

Below is a white text box into which you can write your answers!

Oh, and 007...do be careful.
 

Drax1

Distinguished Member
I don't have much idea how they'd retool Bond for the next one, but I'm excited to find out. There may be a lot of pc boxes to tick these days, but I'm guessing there's still a huge appetite for 007 based on my screening, Sure, he has to keep evolving, but there's still plenty of millage for a different take on things. I still see the franchise as a staple of modern cinemagoing, and always look forward to each as an event film.
 

lucasisking

Distinguished Member
Good morning 007, and welcome again to this month's AVF Movies Podcast discussion thread.

The next Movies Podcast hosted by @Casimir Harlow, @Simon Crust and @Mark Costello will be livestreaming on our YouTube channel on Wednesday 6th October 2021 at 7:30pm

This month we'll be discussing the Bond movies we grew up with, our favourites in the franchise and whether or not the time has come to say goodbye to the character.

But we also want to know if you think Bond has had his day or whether you'd like to see him carry on regenerating like Doctor Who until the end of time.

The most interesting responses will be discussed on the podcast!

- Maybe it's an obvious question but which Bond movie do you feel most personally attached to?
(Not necessarily the objective best, but the one that means the most to you)

- What do you think of Craig's tenure as 007? Has he been a good Bond? What even makes a good Bond?

- How should Bond carry on? What would you do with the character in a perfect world?

Below is a white text box into which you can write your answers!

Oh, and 007...do be careful.

Much like Dr Who, Bond is a British institution and should [never say] NEVER [live and let] DIE [another day]! I wouldn't say I'm the worlds biggest Bond fan, but a fan I most certainly am.

  • Roger Moore is the Bond I mostly grew up with, although my dad would often remind us how he lacked compared to Sean Connery. Barely registered Lazenby. Timothy Dalton's films were the first to really impress me as action espionage thrillers- I think many would agree he nailed the essence of the Fleming character. Brosnan I never really connected with, although Goldeneye was good. Craig blew me away in Casino Royale, as did the movie, so I think that's the hill I'll die on. I have huge soft spots for Moonraker and You Only Live Twice
  • Craig was excellent, but I also think he carried on too long. He also seemed tired and grumpy in Skyfall which kind of took the wind out of that film's sails for me. Fortunately he gave it his all in this new one. But again, in Casino Royale is his Magnum Opus. An all time great Bond performance.
  • In terms of cast I think each new Bond actor should be in his mid thirties and quit after 4 films maximum, thus ensuring they aren't trundling on in their late40s/50s. The actor can be of any ethnicity, provided they are picked for the right reason (ie they are the best candidate, not a statement). I still think Henry Golding would be great. Bond should not be a female, ever. Women should have their own equally iconic characters, either in this franchise or others. (I still want an Atomic Blonde sequel).
  • In terms of rebooting the franchise after that ending; I would say do what Father Ted did with Bishop Brennan: act as if nothing happened! Although they could be cheeky in the next one and have a throwaway line about how, in a previous mission, Bond escaped an Island that was about to explode!!
 

MikeHoy

Active Member
No, there is still a lot that can be done.
 
Last edited:

Fillius

Well-known Member
It would be a great shame if they did.

I've not seen the new one yet, but I plan to watch them all this year. The December 31st release date of the Steelbook may make me a liar yet (if recent Zavvi pre-orders are anything to go by).

If there's no sign of a 4K release of the first 20 soon then I'll crack open my Blu-ray box set (couldn't resist for £35!) and get stuck in.

I have seen the Brosnan films the most since they were at the cinema when I was a kid and are therefore my unconditional favourites, especially GoldenEye. But I watched all the old Bonds growing up, my Dad made sure of it.

There are so many actors who would make excellent Bonds (Walther PPK to my head order):
  1. Tom Hardy
  2. Henry Cavil
  3. Idris Elba
  4. Tom Hiddleston
  5. Richard Madden (possibly)
Since they can't all get a shot in a standard Bond movie, I wouldn't be opposed to an 'Into the Spiderverse' type dealy. The trickiest part might be thinking of a title which sounds suitable for all audiences.

I'd also like to see a female Bond spinoff, as its own thing, not a reboot. They could keep the Bond name if they were a long lost daughter from one of the previous Bonds.

Either way, keep them coming!
 

Goooner

Distinguished Member
Much like Dr Who, Bond is a British institution and should [never say] NEVER [live and let] DIE [another day]! I wouldn't say I'm the worlds biggest Bond fan, but a fan I most certainly am.

  • Roger Moore is the Bond I mostly grew up with, although my dad would often remind us how he lacked compared to Sean Connery. Barely registered Lazenby. Timothy Dalton's films were the first to really impress me as action espionage thrillers- I think many would agree he nailed the essence of the Fleming character. Brosnan I never really connected with, although Goldeneye was good. Craig blew me away in Casino Royale, as did the movie, so I think that's the hill I'll die on. I have huge soft spots for Moonraker and You Only Live Twice
  • Craig was excellent, but I also think he carried on too long. He also seemed tired and grumpy in Skyfall which kind of took the wind out of that film's sails for me. Fortunately he gave it his all in this new one. But again, in Casino Royale is his Magnum Opus. An all time great Bond performance.
  • In terms of cast I think each new Bond actor should be in his mid thirties and quit after 4 films maximum, thus ensuring they aren't trundling on in their late40s/50s. The actor can be of any ethnicity, provided they are picked for the right reason (ie they are the best candidate, not a statement). I still think Henry Golding would be great. Bond should not be a female, ever. Women should have their own equally iconic characters, either in this franchise or others. (I still want an Atomic Blonde sequel).
  • In terms of rebooting the franchise after that ending; I would say do what Father Ted did with Bishop Brennan: act as if nothing happened! Although they could be cheeky in the next one and have a throwaway line about how, in a previous mission, Bond escaped an Island that was about to explode!!
I think they should've had the balls to say to Craig after Spectre, "in or out, if you're out there'll be a queue around the block of actors waiting to take your place"

They definitely need to go younger, mid thirties is about right. As to how many they should do, that's largely down to Eon, if its going to be 4 or 5 years between films then definetly no more than 3 maybe 4 max, but as you say, Bond absolutely must be male.

Some of the user reviews on IMDB are brutal, if they reboot Bond as a woman then that'll make those reviews look 5 star :rotfl:

They pretty much ignored that fact that Tracey had been killed at the end of OHMSS, just a brief pre title sequence of Bond going after Blofeld and then not mention.ed again the rest of the film, with him happily jumping into bed with at least one other woman.

I'd rather they did a Casino type reboot, keep M, Q, Moneypenny, even Nomi if they want to and just have the new guy go into M's office to get his mission like he's done in most of the other films since Dr No.
 

RicksonGracie1972

Distinguished Member
Good morning 007, and welcome again to this month's AVF Movies Podcast discussion thread.

The next Movies Podcast hosted by @Casimir Harlow, @Simon Crust and @Mark Costello will be livestreaming on our YouTube channel on Wednesday 6th October 2021 at 7:30pm

This month we'll be discussing the Bond movies we grew up with, our favourites in the franchise and whether or not the time has come to say goodbye to the character.

But we also want to know if you think Bond has had his day or whether you'd like to see him carry on regenerating like Doctor Who until the end of time.

The most interesting responses will be discussed on the podcast!

- Maybe it's an obvious question but which Bond movie do you feel most personally attached to?
(Not necessarily the objective best, but the one that means the most to you)

- What do you think of Craig's tenure as 007? Has he been a good Bond? What even makes a good Bond?

- How should Bond carry on? What would you do with the character in a perfect world?

Below is a white text box into which you can write your answers!

Oh, and 007...do be careful.
Although I'm not a fan of the recent Bond films I'd hate to see them stop making them.
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
Bond will live forever. He's a staple of cinema now; in much the same vein as Superman and Batman. The character will always be there to be rebooted or re-imagined. The box office alone is too big not to.

Will be going to see NTTD next week sometime, but upto now Craig has been let down since Casino Royale. Everyone knows after that it should have been explosive, but unfortunately it's been little more than a fart. Such a shame really, but he's still been an excellent Bond and I was wrong to be apprehensive when he was announced. He's done what he could with what he got. Spectre was a real low point, and a complete waste of that organisation for his tenure.

I think it's fairly obvious that Bond will remain Bond whatever direction the world takes, but certainly a bit less Sean Connery in Thunderball! And there's no doubt going to be a female iteration to come, possibly with Lynch leading that one. It makes sense, whether people like it or not.

I just hope we won't have to wait so long again. As for the next Bond, it's bring back Dalton or they can GTFO :D

Seriously though (well I was being :) ), I'm not really sure who I'd be happy with leading the way. Jack O'Connell springs to mind though as being a strong candidate.
 

bootyman81

Distinguished Member
Bond films shouldn’t die just like the spy genre shouldn’t die.
For me as a teenager in the nineties, my first bond film was Goldeneyeeeeeee! (you have to say it like Tina Turner)
I liked it a lot but that Eric Serra score always bothered me as someone who was into scores at an early age.

But the one that holds a special place for me is Tomorrow never dies.
Me & my late father loved that so much, one reason was the BMW 7 series which was a car my dad owned and loved with all his heart & something he had to work tooth and nail for (not like the easy finance schemes of today) so seeing it as a bond car (no matter how heretical to true bond fans) was like a song on his heart for a thousand years. It’s something I think of with fondness.
Also Michelle Yeoh as a cool assassin & Pryce as a quite prescient villain. An offbeat but rather good Sheryl crow title song & Vincent Sciavelli as the awesome German hitman…”I could shoot you from Stuttgart” etc. AND Terri Hatcher”do you still sleep with a gun under your pillow James” also let me reiterate a remote control BMW 750iL using a Sony Ericsson model JB007…come on! Lol
Also Brosnan was pretty decent as Bond.
 

GBBooze

Active Member
I'm waiting for a James Bond movie where 007 is the villain and the villain is the good guy. The manipulative, amoral, psychopathic weapon of a corrupt British government vs an inclusive European eco warrior who is trying to save the planet via extremely tough and difficult decisions.

Basically the Terminator 2 of the franchise 😁

Coming to AmazonFlix in 2071.
 

Tom Davies

Editorial Contributor
I'm waiting for a James Bond movie where 007 is the villain and the villain is the good guy. The manipulative, amoral, psychopathic weapon of a corrupt British government vs an inclusive European eco warrior who is trying to save the planet via extremely tough and difficult decisions.

Basically the Terminator 2 of the franchise 😁

Coming to AmazonFlix in 2071.
Would watch
 

LV426

Administrator
Staff member
"Take him to the farm"

Most attached (but by no means the best IMO) is Live and Let Die. Summer 1973 and my first Bond film ever (in any medium); an absolutely packed original undivided Odeon in Scarborough with all the atmosphere that brings. And a good balance of action and dry humour.

Craig: One of the better Bonds. Despite my "attachment" to Roger Moore's first outing, I'd place him bottom partly because of his inability to act (he plays himself) and partly because his tenure saw some of the more "humerous" (read: slapstick) scripts, which isn't a good thing. If I had to pick a favourite from the rest, it would probably be Timothy Dalton.

Future: I could watch a Bond film every two years ad infinitum based on the 24 I have seen so far. I don't fall into the category of folk who believe that "iconic" characters should be modified so as to be politically correct; the James Bond character is a caucasian British (well, English, probably) male and has to be played by an actor who can be that character. That (IMO) excludes for this role anyone of colour or other gender, but does not exclude non-English - as long as they can do a decent impression.

And, of course, one presumes they still make money for the filmmakers. If it isn't broken, don't fix it.
 

Tom Davies

Editorial Contributor
Really nice responses on this one, thanks everyone.
I won't get to have my two cents on the podcast this week so I'll lay it out here.

I have next to zero attachment to James Bond.
I asked the first question primarily because it's really my only in road for understanding Bond. All my attachments to the franchise are purely personal and contextual. Almost none of them are because I actually like the movies.

I guess, more specifically, I have an attachment to remembering watching James Bond. Somehow I always equate it with hanging out with my older, cooler cousin when I was like 7. He liked James Bond movies and I idolized him so I watched one most times we visited. My strongest attachment is to GoldenEye, mostly due to the age when I saw it and because of the videogame, which I know has already been mentioned. But my good memories are of the situations and the general sense of happiness rather than of the movies themselves.
I've seen them all, many of them multiple times, but beyond Timothy Dalton's two, a couple of early Connery entries, and Casino Royale, I can't say I like or particularly care about Bond movies.

For what it's worth I'll go on record saying I think Daniel Craig is a fine James Bond. I think he's been generally good in the movies but not always as the character. He's been poorly served by some crappy scripting but his delivery never seems sincere making a weird comparison in my head between him and Roger Moore. But while Moore was there just for a laugh, Craig seems to be there just for a job.

How should it carry on? I wouldn't be particularly sad if there wasn't another Bond movie. After all, as John Gardner titled one of his James Bond books: Nobody Lives Forever.
 

RicksonGracie1972

Distinguished Member
I don't fall into the category of folk who believe that "iconic" characters should be modified so as to be politically correct; the James Bond character is a caucasian British (well, English, probably) male and has to be played by an actor who can be that character. That (IMO) excludes for this role anyone of colour or other gender, but does not exclude non-English - as long as they can do a decent impression.

And, of course, one presumes they still make money for the filmmakers. If it isn't broken, don't fix it.
I agree that Bond should not be female, he is after all called James Bond for a reason.
What they could do is maybe introduce a female 00 agent in a future film, say 009, who then maybe gets a spin off film of her own and both characters can get cameo's in each others films.

I'm not sure, however, that the books state Bond has to be white which is why I think Idris Elba would make a good Bond. He has the stature and screen presence to carry it off.
 

RicksonGracie1972

Distinguished Member
He’ll be 50 next year, so too old now, I’d say.
Maybe. I'd like to see a new bond every 2-3 films to keep things fresh
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
Really nice responses on this one, thanks everyone.
I won't get to have my two cents on the podcast this week so I'll lay it out here.

I have next to zero attachment to James Bond.
I asked the first question primarily because it's really my only in road for understanding Bond. All my attachments to the franchise are purely personal and contextual. Almost none of them are because I actually like the movies.

I guess, more specifically, I have an attachment to remembering watching James Bond. Somehow I always equate it with hanging out with my older, cooler cousin when I was like 7. He liked James Bond movies and I idolized him so I watched one most times we visited. My strongest attachment is to GoldenEye, mostly due to the age when I saw it and because of the videogame, which I know has already been mentioned. But my good memories are of the situations and the general sense of happiness rather than of the movies themselves.
I've seen them all, many of them multiple times, but beyond Timothy Dalton's two, a couple of early Connery entries, and Casino Royale, I can't say I like or particularly care about Bond movies.

For what it's worth I'll go on record saying I think Daniel Craig is a fine James Bond. I think he's been generally good in the movies but not always as the character. He's been poorly served by some crappy scripting but his delivery never seems sincere making a weird comparison in my head between him and Roger Moore. But while Moore was there just for a laugh, Craig seems to be there just for a job.

How should it carry on? I wouldn't be particularly sad if there wasn't another Bond movie. After all, as John Gardner titled one of his James Bond books: Nobody Lives Forever.

This lack of Bond love, your post was on thin ice Tom, thin ice.

But all was saved by the BIB :D
 

bruce-leroy

Distinguished Member
But we also want to know if you think Bond has had his day or whether you'd like to see him carry on regenerating like Doctor Who until the end of time.

The most interesting responses will be discussed on the podcast!

- Maybe it's an obvious question but which Bond movie do you feel most personally attached to?
(Not necessarily the objective best, but the one that means the most to you)

- What do you think of Craig's tenure as 007? Has he been a good Bond? What even makes a good Bond?

- How should Bond carry on? What would you do with the character in a perfect world?

I don’t think 007 has had his day but the producers need to be snappier and not leave 4-5 years between films. I think it should be maximum 3 years between films. Whilst the long delay between Spectre (inc. Covid disruption) and NTTD appears to have not harmed Bond’s appeal to audiences, it has personally made me more blasé about wanting to watch the films. In addition, I’ve been mostly underwhelmed by the Craig era since Casino Royale so that has contributed to my apathy.

Back in the late 90s, when the films first became available on R1 dvd that coincided with Brosnan’s run, I couldn’t get enough. I bought the R1 sets and watched them all from Dr. No. I’ve not watched a Bond film in the six years since a cinema outing for the very disappointing Spectre (although reading some reviews suggesting it’s not that bad makes me semi keen for a reappraisal).

My first Bond experience was The Spy Who Loved Me on VHS and I was hooked instantly. It has everything that moviegoers like about the series - Moore’s Goldfinger if you like. First cinema outing was the more grounded The Living Daylight. The Bond that I probably identify most with I’d say is Pierce Brosnan. Mostly because his era is when I was frequently going to cinemas as a young adult, and also I was of the age to understand the jokes and double entendres. Just like @bootyman81 my fave Brosnan (and a fave Bond film) is Tomorrow Never Dies. I felt Pierce was a bit raw in Goldeneye but by the time of TND, he’d fitted into the role like one of his expensive suits. Being a HK cinema fan, the presence of Michelle Yeoh also helped a lot. It’s interesting how attitudes have changed over the years. Before Craig took over, I feel Brosnan was more highly regarded - a combo of Connery and Moore’s wit. I now mostly read remarks about him not really being a decent Bond after all (also in comparison to Craig).

Daniel Craig has been a really good Bond in terms of having the dramatic chops to bring a human authenticity to the role despite being a rogue-ish badass. Aside from Casino Royale, he has been poorly served by the quality of subsequent films. I agree with previous posters that the new Bond should be whoever is the best candidate, and not because contemporary politics say it should be a woman. Being a purist, 007 should remain a man. I’m not convinced about Henry Golding as I’ve been impressed with his non romantic films. If going non white, Everyone says Idris Elba but I thought Colin Salmon would have been good back in the day. Not convinced by John David Washington either. He’ll probably be someone we’d never think of similar to Daniel Craig. I don’t the world is enough to not have any more Bond films and he’ll definitely live to die another day.
 

Goooner

Distinguished Member
Maybe. I'd like to see a new bond every 2-3 films to keep things fresh
Even if he only did 2-3, you’d be looking at the same age as Craig for the first one and well into his 60s by the third. Don’t see Eon doing more than a film at the quickest every 3 years, more likely 4. Unless of course Amazon put a boot up their backside.
 

Jessica Noir

Well-known Member
I really hope EON give Bond a bit of a rest, which might be hard given the box office of NTTD and the great word of mouth it's getting. Craig was a fantastic choice of Bond, and in Casino Royale and Skyfall, he gave us two of the finest films in the entire franchise. Given the cinematic landscape currently, I'd be shocked if Broccoli and Wilson didn't try and plan out a four-five movie plan for the next actor to wear a Rolex and carry a PPK.

Film franchise thrive when they change with the times, so I'm hoping EON hire someone with a interesting take on the character and world. Who wouldn't want to see Gaspar Noe's or Gareth Evans take on Bond? Or go the other direction and get someone who can make Bond sexy again, Céline Sciamma or Isabel Sandoval.

My fantasy new-Bond would be Regé-Jean Page or Gemma Chan as Bond, Emma Mackey as Moneypenny and Peter Mullen as M.
 

mjn

Distinguished Member
Whilst James Bond has to be a man, 007 doesn't. All the original written material has 007 as James Bond and the same man. But we know that double-00s "have a very short lifespan" so maybe the series will change from James Bond to 007? That way they can change actor every other film if they wish.
 

lucasisking

Distinguished Member
Whilst James Bond has to be a man, 007 doesn't. All the original written material has 007 as James Bond and the same man. But we know that double-00s "have a very short lifespan" so maybe the series will change from James Bond to 007? That way they can change actor every other film if they wish.

That would just be unnecessarily confusing. Either make James Bond films or don't.

If you want to explore other types of 00 agents there's always scope for spin offs or maybe a show.
 

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