Is it possible to stream movies from NAS to media player via wireless G ?

Discussion in 'Networking & NAS' started by SultanBrunei, Feb 21, 2013.

  1. SultanBrunei

    SultanBrunei
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    I AM CONFUSED. Which one is true of these two statements?
    Some said even N is not enough for HD movies streaming, Some said (Local store staff, some people on forums) that N is enough to stream full hd movies, and G is enough to stream 720p movies.

    Please guide me.

    I am saving up some money and planning to buy a home entertainment system mainly used to watch 720p movies, consists of :

    - NAS WD Mybook Live 3TB
    - WIRELESS ROUTER Buffalo WHR-G125 <--- already have
    - MEDIA PLAYER ACRyan PlayonHD Mini + usb wireless adapter



    Is this even possible without problems like stuttering or delaying or whatever else I don't know yet?
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2013
  2. SultanBrunei

    SultanBrunei
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    G Wireless for 720p MKV Movies.............
     
  3. razer1

    razer1
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    Theoretically, Wireless is up to doing it but when you factor in wireless interference, distance it needs to travel and through what, it does struggle.

    If its only one device accessing and streaming at a time, you might get away with using wireless but most people, me included would say that hardwired or homeplugs are best.
     
  4. bryanchicken

    bryanchicken
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    The problem with wireless for streaming is the constant throughput required. The theoretical peak speeds are easily fast enough on paper, but you don't get those speeds in real life.
    The wireless signals are affected by a variety of things, weather, other equipment, your neighbour's network etc etc.

    You _may_ be able to stream via wireless but it could be hit and miss. Wired is pretty much guaranteed to work
     
  5. Kristian

    Kristian
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    MKV is a wrapper or container format for whatever codec is inside it. The bit rate of the file depends on the codec and how much compression is used. So you might get a 720p MKV file that only needs 1Mbit/s or 10Mbit/s (for example).

    As razer1 says, you point out max theoretical rates. These are affected distance, obstacles (walls) and interference, and efficiency of the wireless. Then add overheads (headers )on the protocols (TCP/UDP, IP, Ethernet) and the raw data throughput can drop substantially.

    I'm afraid the usual way forward is to suck it and see. I much prefer running Cat5E cables but that isn't always possible.
     
  6. LJx

    LJx
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    If they are properly compressed and you have a reasonable wireless connection there shouldn't be a problem.
     
  7. mickevh

    mickevh
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    @LJx - I love the nuances of language: What is "properly" compressed.. :confused:

    I find the figures in post #2 a bit confusing and somewhat misleading as they don't factor in any of the protocol overheads. For example, you never get 12.5 MB/s file transfers over 100mbps ethernet - it's simply impossible. The figures quoted are a "link rate" not a measure of "theoretical max. achievable throughput," but a a lot of people confuse the former with the latter.

    It's like a gun: They all have a quoted "rate of fire" in "rounds per minute." But because of things like magazine size, reloading time, etc. you cannot actually fire the stated number rounds in a minute. According to a documentary I'm watching just now, an M14 rifle can fire at the rate of 700 rounds per minute, but it's magazine only holds 20 rounds, so one simply cannot shoot 700 rounds in a minute with an M14. But if you blatted out a burst of bullets, measured the time between each round emerging from the muzzle and did the math to express that time in "rounds per minute" you'd get the number 700.

    It's much the same with data networking link rates. Manufacturers and specification bodies quote the "link rate" as that's a reliable figure (and IT pros all "understand" what it means.) But each technology has a "protocol efficiency" or "protocol overhead" which expresses how much of the headline link rate gets lost to the "rules" (protocol) of how the technology works.

    Protocol overheads are different for different technologies. Ethernet is actually rather good at about 97%. By contrast wi-fi is something of the order of 65-75% efficient (depending on version.)

    One might ask, very reasonably, "why don't we quote the throughput having factored in protocol overhead so users have a more useful figure to work with?" Unfortunately a lot of other "it depends" factors effect the observed performance which are impossible to predict so everyone sticks to link rates.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2013
  8. everett_psycho

    everett_psycho
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    It's doable but I'd only do it with SD, definitely not full HD, I can barely do that on wireless n. Home plugs are an easy fix but after 2 years I've bitten the bullet and just run Ethernet cables like I should have done in the first place and saved myself some cash. It's much more reliable if you can hide the cables to your pleasing
     
  9. Imran_UK

    Imran_UK
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    I found that real world speeds for 54g are 20 Mega bits per sec = 2 Megabytes per sec
     
  10. Kristian

    Kristian
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    Co-incidentially I was watching something on my Pi last night, a H264 encoded MKV file, at 720p and the bitrate of the stream was hovering around 6Mb for the video and 384Kb for the audio.
     
  11. SultanBrunei

    SultanBrunei
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    what equipments do you use?
     
  12. everett_psycho

    everett_psycho
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    I run a HP microserver through a gigabit lan to a bt home hub. Everything that's hard wired works fine but full blu ray rips struggle on my nexus 4, Asus transformer and lg ls570 that use wireless n, DVDs are fine over it though
     
  13. SultanBrunei

    SultanBrunei
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    I tried to setup a wireless streaming trial in my room.

    Equipment:
    iPad 3 with air video set to maximum buffer size 5120kbit/s, maximum res. 1280x720
    Wireless router buffalo whr-g125
    PC with air video server app

    Streaming:
    720p cartoon
    1080p breaking dawn movies

    All works flawlessly.

    Can I assume this would mean if I buy NAS and streaming media player it would work flawlessly the same?
     
  14. dibdab

    dibdab
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    The only thing you can do is try as there are so many variables when it comes to wireless, just be prepared to buy home plugs or run a cable if need be.
     
  15. bryanchicken

    bryanchicken
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    Is the server transcoding that to 1280x720 then? If so, then it may not work with a NAS, which won't transcode
     
  16. mickevh

    mickevh
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    Cartoons tend not to be a great test case as large areas of block colour compress really well, so cartoons tend to have lower bit rate requirements that "normal" moving video images.

    The picture format (720P, 1080P, etc.) isn't a particularly good indicator. What really matters is the underlying bit rate requirements. 1080P off Freesat tends to be 10mbps or so, blu-ray tends to be upwards of 30mbps or so, SD tends to be <5 mbps but these are not hard and fast "rules."

    I've got SD test material with bit rates approaching blu-ray levels and equally I've got heavily compressed 1080P which is a little as 1mbps (youtube videos are a good example.)

    So when analysing what infrastructure you need to deliver video you need to look at the bit-rate requirements (as that's all "networks" care about) and less at whether it's SD, HD, 720, 1080 etc. For sure, with "typical" compression settings in the video streams, one can make some inferences, but one cannot conclude that because one 1080P movie succeeded, they all will.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2013
  17. SultanBrunei

    SultanBrunei
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    I see. Now how do I know the bitrate of each movie file? Mostly mine is .mkv. Where / what app I must have to know them?
     
  18. mickevh

    mickevh
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    MediaInfo is pretty good.

    .MKV is just a "container" format - it is capable of wrapping itself around lots of different video/audio/subtitles etc. so it's bit rate is entirely dependent on the "elemental" streams it is wrapped around.

    For example, if you wrapped MKV around a MP3 audio file with low quality settings, the bit rate could be of the order of few 10's of kbps, but if you wrapped a Blu-Ray rip containng H264 video using better quality picture profiles and DTS-HD 7.1 sound plus a few alternate audio streams and a plethora of subtitle streams, then it could be tens of mbps (thousand times higher.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2013
  19. Kristian

    Kristian
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    I'd have thought most players would show you the codec and bit rates. I know that Video LAN Player does (link)
     
  20. razy60

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    would the system that you are streaming from not effect video, if i stream from my HP N40l a large file say 5/6GB 1080p over wifi it buffers then stalls but smaller files play ok the same files from my PC (i7 920, 6GB ram and HD5870 ) including full BD iso files of 20/30GB+ play fine?
    Just asking.
     
  21. bryanchicken

    bryanchicken
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    A microserver will have no issues streaming BD ISOs if the network is up to scratch.
     
  22. everett_psycho

    everett_psycho
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    They should play fine, mine plays full bd rips fine over the wired network but when I try WiFi it stutters and isn't watchable
     
  23. mickevh

    mickevh
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    For streaming, the size of the file is of no relevance. What matters is that lumps of it are delivered "regularly" enough to avoid playback blips. Most devices, even low end ones, can deliver files more than fast enough for media playback.

    Consider how long it would take copy/paste (say) a 2 hour movie to/from your storage device. (Try it if you like - time it on a watch.) Copying will proceed as fast as the source/sink and network infrastrucure between them will avail and it's usually considerably less that the "run time" of the movie, which demonstrates that there's adequate capacity available to shift the data around.

    Where people seem to (increasingly) be getting problems is when using one of these fancy "media server" applications, particularly when they "transcode" the files (convert from one picture/sound format to another) in real time as the media is played. Transcoding is computationally complex and if the device doing the transcoding doesn't have enough horsepower to "keep up" you can get issues. (It's not for nothing that the broadcasters have encoders that cost thousands.)

    This is why people who want an easy life tend to do their transcoding "one time" and cut a new version of the file in appropriate format(s) that their playback devices "like" negating the need to do any transcoding at playback time. Thence, playback is simply a matter of getting the data from A to B and letting B "render" it into pictures and sound.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2013
  24. darkmavis

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    Regardless, wifi is crap for hd movies they WILL stutter. Lan cable all the way.
     
  25. everett_psycho

    everett_psycho
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    Definitely, I'm having issues with full HD even with home plugs, running a cat5e cable magically made the same file work perfectly
     
  26. bryanchicken

    bryanchicken
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    then your issue is wifi
     
  27. everett_psycho

    everett_psycho
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    Yup, that was my point, just showing that the micro server wasn't the weak link in the chain
     
  28. SultanBrunei

    SultanBrunei
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    Despite of everything, I have succesfully managed to stream 720p (6.1mbits) AND 1080p (12mbits) from my PC to wd tv live streaming through buffalo router whr-g125 !!

    No need to do extra work. The setup just did it without any stutter or anything.
    Next thing I need to buy is my book live nas to pair with it! :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2013

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