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Is it more than picture quality that gets people hooked on Pioneer Kuros?

loukomalada

Standard Member
The last panasonic plasmas can't really be compared to a reset/volt adjusted krp500. They are in a different league. And I'll vouch for Patrik/PgICE. I was also once convinced oled was the best, but then i came over his videos, and i just had to test what he was talking about. So i found an used krp500, did the volt adjustments and reset and guess what, thats my go to tv today and that is all because i saw his youtube video. I had nothing to do with him else than i was curious and love tech. Now i do not say OLED tv are so bad that you should not buy one and i am not saying that a krp500 is perfect. I am just saying it gives a better picture than tvs that you can buy today in stores (imho).
 

geese

Member
The last panasonic plasmas can't really be compared to a reset/volt adjusted krp500. They are in a different league. And I'll vouch for Patrik/PgICE. I was also once convinced oled was the best, but then i came over his videos, and i just had to test what he was talking about. So i found an used krp500, did the volt adjustments and reset and guess what, thats my go to tv today and that is all because i saw his youtube video. I had nothing to do with him else than i was curious and love tech. Now i do not say OLED tv are so bad that you should not buy one and i am not saying that a krp500 is perfect. I am just saying it gives a better picture than tvs that you can buy today in stores (imho).
He has has ways thats for sure but has helped a few folks with their Kuro's, like many here.
Was it a tough process reseting your KRP? And did you aim for 0mll?
 

loukomalada

Standard Member
The reset process is simple, and on the KRP models A and M i have had 0 issues. I have done 6 of them now.

I did indeed run it as low as I possible could get. This will give slight, not sure what word to use here (black rain i guess). The pixels are to slow to turn on when the movie has ended/rolling text starts making the scrolling text a bit wierd. This cannot be seen during normal viewing, even when picture change in like imax scenes like the dark knight when picture goes to full screen suddenly. So a non issue for me.
 

Inferno

Distinguished Member
Can you elaborate?
No, sorry he is a clown, very bad attitude, and he basically learned how to reset off several of us, me included, I have reset a KRP 500A myself and supplied him with the hex code which he has acknowledged.

I owned a 500A and it was possibly one of the best samples of the set, even Vincent Teoh has said so of my set, which he used himself at a demonstration.

I can categorically tell you now that they are an excellent set, but the way he lauds them is OTT, yes there good, but they are NOT as good as any of the newer OLED sets, in skin tone or colour reproduction and as for black level, yes the Tweaked KRP gets close but in reality there not as good at all as the set will suffer as it's being voltage starved and underdriven it caused issues like Black Rain, the KRP set may seem to make SDR stuff look better as its not having to upscale it to make it into sudo 4K so the OLED will suffer, the KRP masks stuff and gives a false impression it's better but it is lacking in detail, I do not miss it at all, and as for his videos of comparing HDR with a none HDR camera and only displayed in 1080 on YouTube is an actual joke, anyway I have wasted enough time on the person and will say no more.

Oh yes, there is NO Special Edition KRP, that's just in his imagination.
 
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eastsoutheast

Well-known Member
I have owned my KRP600A from new and secured one of the very last Sevenoaks Sound And Vision had left. I have been a serial upgrader for nigh on 25 years but have yet to be convinced either OLED or top end LCD screens are better. There are some definite advantages going down the new screen route but in every demo the disadvantages stop me changing.

I also own a very low hours (circa 6000) KRP500A which i actually purchased to give me a spare remote and media box.

Awesome TV’s in my humble opinion.
 

loukomalada

Standard Member
I guess everyone is allowed to their own opinion :) For me when I did a side by side comparison of (back then it was the C7 vs krp500A) I was blown away by how poor the oled looked in movies compared to the krp500A. I have later done side by side comparison of Q9fn,Vt60,C7,C8,5090lx,500a,500m and for me the the best TV is the 500m. I have actually never had any one over choosing the oled over the krp picture wise.

Tbh I think there is a place atm for the Qled, plasma and the oled, and they all have their strength and weakness. However, when everything boils down to getting the best cinema experience when watching a movie I highly prefer the kuro. It just looks more natural.

Thinking about it, I actually believe those people that don't calibrate or know much about picture are the once that are most happy when watching movies, cause even though I love my tv's, I see flaws in them that could have been better. Imagine a couple of more years of kuro development or a mix of the 3 techs, oh well one can only dream :rolleyes:
 

Inferno

Distinguished Member
I guess everyone is allowed to their own opinion :) For me when I did a side by side comparison of (back then it was the C7 vs krp500A) I was blown away by how poor the OLED looked in movies compared to the krp500A. I have later done side by side comparison of Q9fn,Vt60,C7,C8,5090lx,500a,500m and for me the best TV is the 500m. I have actually never had any one over choosing the oled over the krp picture wise.

Tbh I think there is a place atm for the Qled, plasma and the oled, and they all have their strength and weakness. However, when everything boils down to getting the best cinema experience when watching a movie I highly prefer the kuro. It just looks more natural.

Thinking about it, I actually believe those people that don't calibrate or know much about picture are the once that are most happy when watching movies, cause even though I love my tv's, I see flaws in them that could have been better. Imagine a couple of more years of kuro development or a mix of the 3 techs, oh well one can only dream :rolleyes:
You know what, I would love to see how the OLED'S were set up to come to that conclusion.

I also do not know what some people regard as a good picture but have found that nearly every 2019 Mainstream Manufacturer's OLED has been better than the KRP, you see an OLED has better colours, better blacks, better brightness uses less power for the same size.

The KRP has slightly and I mean slightly better motion handling as far as I can see (I owned a KRP) in fact the difference to me is hardly noticeable and causes me no issues with football.

I understand what some say about calibration but since my Pioneer was calibrated on 2 separate inputs by two different professional Calibrators, incidentally one of whom is very well respected and has calibrated my OLED too, the picture on the OLED is just better all ends up bar the slight motion difference, so you see people see things differently, I think when showing Films the OLED is just slightly better than my KRP was, there is no HDR or 4K on the plasma so it doesn't stand up against a calibrated OLED with most films as far as I can see.

Let's not mention Phosphor Trails either.
 

strangequark

Active Member
The difference in motion is more than slight IMO. It's night and day in games where you can't enable interpolation. The motion on my FZ802 is not too bad with IFC set to Min, but it's still no Kuro.

There are too many compromises with OLEDs for some Kuro owners. You have banding near black, tinting near white, worse motion and worse SDR colours depending on the brand/model (WRGB vs true RGB).

From Phil's GZ1500 review:

Plus, the engineers at Panasonic have also managed to dial out the inherent cyan blue whites of WRGB OLED and given this OLED a redder, richer colour of white which makes a big difference to image accuracy. While it wasn’t as big a standout as our hands-on with the GZ2000 recently, the correct colour of white and lack of the cyan tint (that is present even on correctly calibrated OLEDs) is not present here with viewing material. This adds to the accuracy of skin tones and colours as the greyscale is excellent.
My FZ802 has good uniformity near white, but it's slightly warmer on the left side and it sticks out in content after you've seen it: https://www.avforums.com/attachments/untitled-png.1207594/

What I love most about OLEDs is that they don't dim the screen in SDR content (no ABL). The ABL on plasmas is pretty aggressive and it makes bright scenes look a bit dirty next to an OLED or LCD. They also have way better reflection handling (you're basically buying a mirror when buy a plasma :D).

So there are pros and cons, but as someone who doesn't watch any HDR content, I wish I had waited for a 65" plasma to come up. The size difference (50" vs 65") was the only reason that stopped me from returning my FZ802 and sticking with the LX5090 for a few more years.
 

Inferno

Distinguished Member
I do not play games on my TV so maybe that is why I do not see much of a difference in motion, I don't own a games console.

There are other things about the Plasma too, with whites get too close to the plasma and you can see the screen looks like there is something moving about, the banding is far worse than on the OLED too, I watch lots of 4K HDR/Dolby Vision stuff and the Plasma is not a patch on it not even close, don't get me wrong I loved the KRP but it's just got bettered now that is all.
 

eastsoutheast

Well-known Member
I couldn’t think of the right word to use in my last post to describe why I still prefer my KRP to newer tech and it’s “natural”. There are things I love about new TV tech, OLED colour and vividness, QLED brightness and larger size Options but both require me to give up my smooth motion and natural picture which I am struggling to walk away from.

I really want a 75” plus screen so may end up changing soon anyway but I am convinced that for most of what I watch I will miss my KRP PQ.
 

strangequark

Active Member
I do not play games on my TV so maybe that is why I do not see much of a difference in motion, I don't own a games console.

There are other things about the Plasma too, with whites get too close to the plasma and you can see the screen looks like there is something moving about, the banding is far worse than on the OLED too, I watch lots of 4K HDR/Dolby Vision stuff and the Plasma is not a patch on it not even close, don't get me wrong I loved the KRP but it's just got bettered now that is all.
Not sure what you mean by banding. Plasmas don't have banding like on OLEDs. I know what you mean about the dithering though (looks like dancing pixels) when viewed up close, but they were never visible to me from a normal viewing distance, whereas the tinting/banding on OLEDs is visible.

Agreed, OLED is king if you watch tons of HDR content. I just wish there weren't compromises.
 

Inferno

Distinguished Member
Banding/false contouring, My Plasma definitely had banding it drove me nuts, it was way worse than on the OLED, in fact I have very rarely seen it on the OLED but did on the Pioneer, must have been poor bandwidth content off TV and such.
 

loukomalada

Standard Member
You know what, I would love to see how the OLED'S were set up to come to that conclusion.

I also do not know what some people regard as a good picture but have found that nearly every 2019 Mainstream Manufacturer's OLED has been better than the KRP, you see an OLED has better colours, better blacks, better brightness uses less power for the same size.

The KRP has slightly and I mean slightly better motion handling as far as I can see (I owned a KRP) in fact the difference to me is hardly noticeable and causes me no issues with football.

I understand what some say about calibration but since my Pioneer was calibrated on 2 separate inputs by two different professional Calibrators, incidentally one of whom is very well respected and has calibrated my OLED too, the picture on the OLED is just better all ends up bar the slight motion difference, so you see people see things differently, I think when showing Films the OLED is just slightly better than my KRP was, there is no HDR or 4K on the plasma so it doesn't stand up against a calibrated OLED with most films as far as I can see.

Let's not mention Phosphor Trails either.
I would love for the oled to be better so i could get hdr in my cinema room. Cause the q9fn is not good enough in a black painted room. I do not prefer the oleds to the kuro in any way ex of hdr and 100% blackness compared to 99.5%, oh and the dithering plasma noise in silent scenes. I do not care at all about power consumption. If you like the oled more, then I am happy for you and everyone else who are. At the end of the day that’s all that matters?

As for the setup, your more than welcome to come and have a look if your ever in my area :) It is not as if I try to get the kuros to look better on purpose, as I said I want something to beat them, why would i else use them if i did not think they were better? In addition, as I do not regard the kuros as perfect, I will always be on the lookout for something better, but I do not believe that will happen any time soon.

I do watch a lot of football on an oled at my friends place and I myself use the q9fn for football for the reason it is a 75" and that it is in my living room/more convenient to have guests there). But I do notice the motion difference here compared to plasma, much more than on movies.

Banding/false contouring, My Plasma definitely had banding it drove me nuts, it was way worse than on the OLED, in fact I have very rarely seen it on the OLED but did on the Pioneer, must have been poor bandwidth content off TV and such.
I am not sure if what we are talking about here is the same, but the kuros have the cleanest uniformity image I have seen on a tv and it's the same on all of them. I have seen so many oleds during the years now, and most if not all have to some degree something that looks like a cat has been on the production line pissing on the screen before they was shipped out lol. This bothers me more than the motion as it makes an uneven picture.
 

loukomalada

Standard Member
The difference in motion is more than slight IMO. It's night and day in games where you can't enable interpolation. The motion on my FZ802 is not too bad with IFC set to Min, but it's still no Kuro.

There are too many compromises with OLEDs for some Kuro owners. You have banding near black, tinting near white, worse motion and worse SDR colours depending on the brand/model (WRGB vs true RGB).

From Phil's GZ1500 review:



My FZ802 has good uniformity near white, but it's slightly warmer on the left side and it sticks out in content after you've seen it: https://www.avforums.com/attachments/untitled-png.1207594/

What I love most about OLEDs is that they don't dim the screen in SDR content (no ABL). The ABL on plasmas is pretty aggressive and it makes bright scenes look a bit dirty next to an OLED or LCD. They also have way better reflection handling (you're basically buying a mirror when buy a plasma :D).

So there are pros and cons, but as someone who doesn't watch any HDR content, I wish I had waited for a 65" plasma to come up. The size difference (50" vs 65") was the only reason that stopped me from returning my FZ802 and sticking with the LX5090 for a few more years.
I agree that the ABL can be aggressive if not tweaked and the panasonic plasma was horrible. After i adjusted the ABL limit on the kuro i could get over double the nits that my vt60 could on a 100% fullscreen window. So for me the ABL is not really a problem aganst the oleds in sdr. And yea the reflection is kinda crap in comparision xD Thats the best thing about the Q9fn, it handles a living room without needing to use blackouts all the time in the windows, thank god. I live most of my live in a bat cave so it is nice to be able to eat upstairs without needing to turn that room into a batcave aswell :laugh: But down in my batcave the plasma lives happily :rolleyes: It is a black painted room from floor to roof and small things like key holes in door is taped over. There is basically no way to get light into that room.

Would love to test out a panasonic oled. But for some reason the stores here don't take them in. I can order one from online, but i am to lazy to return when i can't return it to a store :facepalm: Never read this before you posted it, but this is precicly one of my issues on the oleds. "the correct colour of white and lack of the cyan tint (that is present even on correctly calibrated OLEDs "
 

hari967

Active Member
The krp has the cleanest uniformity on any screen. And no oled can match it on motion not even close.
when set up right on sdr, I truly believe the latest oled still can’t match that natural picture in sdr. And the krp don’t know what banding is but oleds all have banding to some extent.
 

Inferno

Distinguished Member
The krp has the cleanest uniformity on any screen. And no oled can match it on motion not even close.
when set up right on sdr, I truly believe the latest oled still can’t match that natural picture in sdr. And the krp don’t know what banding is but oleds all have banding to some extent.
Who are you trying to kid?

I have had 2 of the KRP'S and both showed banding and false contouring, what exactly are you looking at, behave yourself!!!

I wouldn't mind and may not have know if I hadn't, but You know different.

The cleanest you have ever seen? The Panasonic's were cleaner, with better whites, I know that too because I still have one of them in my bedroom, and it was sorry is way way cleaner than the Pioneer, I have watched them side by side in the past.
 
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hari967

Active Member
I feel like you may have to say this to justify your purchase but I love oled but I can’t lie and say it annihilates pioneer krp on sdr because it doesn’t. Far less issues on a krp
 

Inferno

Distinguished Member
I feel like you may have to say this to justify your purchase but I love oled but I can’t lie and say it annihilates pioneer krp on sdr because it doesn’t. Far less issues on a krp
Not at all, I don't have to justify anything, I am however calling you out.
 

hari967

Active Member
Let’s face it just read the forums and people are still clinging on to their krp, they are not as bad as you’ve made them out to be.
 

Inferno

Distinguished Member
Let’s face it just read the forums and people are still clinging on to their krp, they are not as bad as you’ve made them out to be.
Look I am not bashing you, and I am not making out that they are bad at all, in fact they smash most sets out of the park even now, I thought that mine was a fantastic set, but I do object the way some of you are lauding the set and trying to make out it doesn't have this problem and that problem, they Do have Banding I know full well I have seen it many a time, they aren't very bright, they can look dirty if you get too close, they dither a lot, the colours and screen is cleaner and cleaner on a Panasonic there is more, the blacks are not surpassed on anything else except an OLED, so stop saying they are fantastic, they were I'll admit that, but tech has moved on and now even after all this time are still the 2nd best, which for the age of the things is amazing, lets not fool yourselves they are not top any more, with 4K with HDR and a good feed on an OLED blow the Pioneer out of the water, even Blue Ray looks better than my KRP did.

To me motion, I cannot tell the difference, I don't game and some are saying it looks better on the Pioneers than the OLED, but that's immaterial when you don't game.

Go and look at a Fully Calibrated OLED and you will see it's better, by quite a lot, all these reviewers and Calibrators can't all be wrong, can they?

Good for you if you believe the Pioneer the best, but take it from me it isn't any more.
 

loukomalada

Standard Member
Who are you trying to kid?

I have had 2 of the KRP'S and both showed banding and false contouring, what exactly are you looking at, behave yourself!!!

I wouldn't mind and may not have know if I hadn't, but You know different.

The cleanest you have ever seen? The Panasonic's were cleaner, with better whites, I know that too because I still have one of them in my bedroom, and it was sorry is way way cleaner than the Pioneer, I have watched them side by side in the past.
I was going to write a quite long post back here but i see we are not going to agree on this matter so i will just have to say that we have to agree to disagree on this matter. Oh and if you happen to know Vincent, than ask him if he would do a comparison video of the KRP500M vs an OLED :laugh: I will even pay for a krp500m if we can find one close by and you guys can pick it up. But only if he does a proper tweak of it and not just a calibration :facepalm: That way we can settle this once and for all, since you don't believe Patrik's videos ;)
 

strangequark

Active Member
I was going to write a quite long post back here but i see we are not going to agree on this matter so i will just have to say that we have to agree to disagree on this matter. Oh and if you happen to know Vincent, than ask him if he would do a comparison video of the KRP500M vs an OLED :laugh: I will even pay for a krp500m if we can find one close by and you guys can pick it up. But only if he does a proper tweak of it and not just a calibration :facepalm: That way we can settle this once and for all, since you don't believe Patrik's videos ;)
Have you checked the AVSHD709 black clipping pattern after you reset your KRP500M? My KRP500M had crushed blacks after a reset, and there are a few members over on AVSFORUM who had the same issue.

It's what made me go back to an LX5090 because they don't have crushed blacks after a reset, and it looks like the KRP500A is similar to the LX5090 here, except they don't have green sparkles after a reset.
 

Inferno

Distinguished Member
I don't know Vincent, when he ran a Forum I used to be a member of he asked if anyone with a KRP would let them use it for a comparison and I let them use mine.

I have heard enough of your delusions regarding the Pioneers you are spouting so I'll leave you to wallow in your own hysteria.
 

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