IS HDR 4k blu ray supposed to be slightly darker?

Discussion in '4K Ultra HD Blu-rays' started by GalacticaActual, Nov 8, 2018 at 9:14 AM.

?
  1. Yes

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  2. No

    6 vote(s)
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  3. only on some discs

    12 vote(s)
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  1. GalacticaActual

    GalacticaActual
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    Hi All,

    I have noticed recently that when i ever i watch a 4k UHD disc that the overall picture seems slightly darker than the standard bluray of the same movie.

    Is this normal?

    If so, does anyone know why?

    I have had the television pro calibrated and check all the settings.

    I am using a Panasonic UHD bluray player , the DMP-UB700 and an LG55 B6

    It seem especially noticeable when watching Jurassic world fallen kingdom and then comparing it to the standard bluray.

    Thanks.
     
  2. lgans316

    lgans316
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    75% of the 4K UHD discs I own are brighter than the Blu-ray counterparts even at 50% settings. For HDR10, OLED light and contrast must be 100/100. For DV, it must be 50/50. Having said that, I find this way too bright in my room especially in night time, so I had set this at 65 for nighttime viewing and 85 when it is bright.
     
  3. Lesmor

    Lesmor
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    Unfortunately IMO UHD can be a hit or a miss
    as I understand it
    depending on the display it can struggle to produce enough luminance (nits) for UHD discs
    discs can be mastered at different levels 1000 nit upto 4000 nits 10000 nits
    so a within its limitations a TV has to try and give the best dynamic range for specular highlights
    so the image looks darker to give range for bright highlights
    add to that there is no agreed standard for UHD so manufacturers have a free hand when designing their sets

    As above many people max out contrast or use a custom setting to make UHD watchable
     
  4. GalacticaActual

    GalacticaActual
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    My oled light and contrast for HDR is 100. My brightness is 51, any more and blacks look grey.

    I was wondering of there was a setting on the play that could be adjusted but i couldn't find anything on it.
     
  5. THX1138UK

    THX1138UK
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    I've not got the UHD of 'Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom', but HDR content *should* be mastered so the brightness levels for the majority of the image is at the same level as the non HDR (SDR) version. It's only the spectacular highlights that should go beyond normal brightness levels. If mastered correctly, darker image elements should not be crushed. If you have to artificially raise the brightness control - to compensate for an image that is too dark, then it's going to raise the deep blacks as well, and that's not going to look good.

    Unfortunately, there are no defined rules as to how your display device should display HDR content when it can't reach the peak brightness specified in the HDR material. Each manufacture has it's own ideas about how "tone-mapping" should be applied. I think most of the current crop of devices do a really good job of tone-mapping - including projectors that can't get anywhere near the peak brightness levels of the source material. I don't have an LG B6, but from what I have read, it's tone-mapping works well.

    To me, the HDR mastering in 'Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2' is near perfect - If you have it on UHD, give it a spin and see if the brightness level looks correct. Then compare it to some of the titles that look too dark. 'The Revenant' and 'Avengers: Infinity War' have HDR done right - you can still see all the detail in the dark areas of the picture, but the peak brightness has plenty of punch.

    I too have seen some HDR content where the whole picture looks significantly darker than the SDR version (gloomy, and difficult to see the detail). I've also seen HDR material where the whole image looks too bright, and the dark blacks are elevated incorrectly.

    HDR is new for everyone including the studios doing the mastering, and for whatever reason, I think they just get it wrong sometimes...

    Regards,
    James.
     
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  6. Indiana Jones

    Indiana Jones
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    Your player can certainly cause issues too, I use my Xbox One X for UHD playback and the image is always very dark and I am sure it is the player causing it so had to create a new preset just for UHDs but when I watch 4K HDR films/shows on Netflix I don't need to adjust anything.
     
  7. lgans316

    lgans316
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    That's an interesting point. I find most of the UHDs to be plenty bright than its 1080p counterparts.
     
  8. GalacticaActual

    GalacticaActual
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    So, Is there anything I can do to make them. Look better?
     
  9. Indiana Jones

    Indiana Jones
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    Well if it’s too dark why not adjust your brightness and gamma settings?

    Once I had tweaked them I was very pleased with the result.
     
  10. GalacticaActual

    GalacticaActual
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    Brightness is at the point where if I go one value higher blacks look grey, gama can't be adjusted in the hdr standard mode that has been pro calibrated.
     
  11. Indiana Jones

    Indiana Jones
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    Ah not sure what to suggest, I was able to raise both on mine enough without making the blacks grey but I have local dimming and bias lighting which helps a fair bit.
     
  12. lgans316

    lgans316
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    I am wondering if it's your B6 as on my C8 it looks bright enough to my eyes and my light is at 45 and contrast at 55 as opposed to 50 and 100 for Dolby Vision.

    The opening underwater sequence shows banding due to poor encoding.
     
  13. doug56hl

    doug56hl
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    Have you tried using the picture adjustment controls on your UB700? For a calibrated TV I prefer to do all adjustments in the player and the Panasonic players have the best sets of controls for this.

    Use the DRA control to shift the overall picture balance darker or lighter. This is the easiest and quickest one to use to darken or lighten the picture. Can be combined with all the other controls to fine tune even more if needed.

    Use player brightness control in preference to the one on your Oled. It is a lot more fine grained and 3 clicks on the panasonic equals one click on the Oled. You can increase brightness, and then also darken the blacks using the black gamma control. Or just use the white and dark gammas controls in combination with each other.
     
  14. GalacticaActual

    GalacticaActual
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    My player does not have any controls of this type to adjust .
    I have looked and can't see any.
     
  15. GalacticaActual

    GalacticaActual
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    Doh, I found the control ...

    Took the dynamic range up 2 notches and that seems much better with out the backs washing out.

    It must be the display and the way way it handles hdr .

    Thanks
     
  16. GalacticaActual

    GalacticaActual
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    interesting, the settings will be different on mine anyway as my player is HDR only with no Dolby vision support . My oled light and contrast with standard HDR are both at 100
     
  17. lgans316

    lgans316
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    I think you have gotten used to a certain degree of brightness and now you are craving for more. Setting the slider at 12 on your UB700 should boost the overall brightness by 10-15% but I am not sure if that's advisable when you are already connected to a native 4K HDR TV. The slider is meant to be at 0 for 4K HDR contents.

    I think you must consider Samsung Q900R if you got enough £££ as it is reportedly super bright and looks great even in dark rooms.

    For me, I am still getting used to this drastic increase in brightness coming from a Panasonic GT60 Plasma, so anything above 70 is too much for my eyes.
     
  18. GalacticaActual

    GalacticaActual
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    The oled light and contrast is supposed to be at 100 for standard HDR .

    Its not a matter of looking for more brightness, its that i have noticed a fair few of my UHD discs seem darker than the standard bluray that comes packaged with them.
     
  19. lgans316

    lgans316
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    Please can you name a few. Let me have a look.
     
  20. GalacticaActual

    GalacticaActual
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    Well,

    Jurassic park fallen kingdom for one .

    The others i cant remember , but will check later tonight.
     
  21. simonlewis

    simonlewis
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    Arrival is another that has some dark scenes too.
     
  22. lgans316

    lgans316
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    But the UHD was noticeably better than the Blu-ray (IMO).
     
  23. GalacticaActual

    GalacticaActual
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    Superman 4kuhd a disc I picked up today is defiantly darker than the bluray.

    Very very grainy as well .
     
  24. GalacticaActual

    GalacticaActual
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    Ok,

    Top image is the bluray
    Bottom is 4kuhd

    IMG_20181109_162817.jpg IMG_20181109_162916.jpg
     
  25. GalacticaActual

    GalacticaActual
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    The bluray even looks sharper.

    Granted,

    It was taken with a camera phone, but looking at it for reall, the difference is night and day.
    I would say it looks worse....

    Or is it just me?
     
  26. GalacticaActual

    GalacticaActual
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    Anyone got any ideas ?
     
  27. Jim Di Griz

    Jim Di Griz
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    Arrival was filmed that way. And the 4K is a big improvement on the blu.
     
  28. Jim Di Griz

    Jim Di Griz
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    Look at Lex's jacket. And Im not even zooming in!
     
  29. GalacticaActual

    GalacticaActual
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    What about it?
     
  30. lgans316

    lgans316
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