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Is HDMI that much better?

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by leedsfireman, Jan 14, 2004.

  1. leedsfireman

    leedsfireman
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    Can those lucky people out there who have a set up like a pioneer 434 & a pioneer dvd connected via HDMI give there honest opinion to the pic quality. Is it that much better than a decent dvd player, like a HK dvd30, connected using componet to a prog scan plasma, say a Panasonic w4 pannel.
    Is the pic quality that much better to think about upgrading?
    Please be honest.
     
  2. Trashman

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    I have a Pioneer 868 AVi DVD player connected to a Pioneer 43". These are connected by HDMI via the media box. I think the picture is slightly better then progressive scan but because the instruction mauals leave a lot to be desired one is never sure if the system is set up correctly.

    For example the screen resolutions to use are not obvious, the manual refers to one resolution but in the on screen menu this resolution does not exist! The much vaunted scaler does not exist in the manual so you never what it does or if it is doing it!
    Once you have HDMI connected it is very difficult to access all the video control menus it seems to give you one choice.

    Pioneer of course are pretty useless at support they still have not connected us the users with the word customer and still refer us back to the dealers who know less about HDMI than we do. I know this does not help much but to be honest it does look better but it does not grab you by the throat and make you a believer straight away. I will update you as I learn more. If anyone out there knows the correct setup for my system please advise I would be very grateful
     
  3. leedsfireman

    leedsfireman
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    Do you need to use the media box to use the HDMI.

    Andy.
     
  4. suzywong

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    anybody know what the interface between the media box and the screen is?
     
  5. loonatic

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    I have seen a 504HDE playing the same DVD from a pio 868 via both component and HDMI and from a Denon 2900 via component.

    All three looked very similar with the 868 outputting HDMI being the best with the Denon second and the868 outputing component last.

    The HDMI feed showed slightly more detail in the background areas and the colours seemed a tad more vibrant but this may have been down to settings.

    As I allready owned the Denon I decided that the extra cost involved in selling the Denon for the 868 was not worthwhile and went for the panny 50" instead.

    TBH I can't see how it could be that much better in raw PQ terms when compared to a decent prog-scan player.

    Cheers, Lee
     
  6. loonatic

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    I think it's just a propriatory form of DVI connection.

    Cheers, Lee
     
  7. loonatic

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    Yes :mad:

    Cheers, Lee
     
  8. MAW

    MAW
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    As loonatic omitted to mention it, I thought I'd point out that the 434 is set up to use the HDMI, and I doubt they paid the same attention to the component interface. Certainly if HDMI wasn't the best on this screen the r&d guys in Japan would have to fall on their swords. Even I'm not cynical enough to believe they deliberately downgraded YUV, but probably didn't work that hard. The difference between analogue prog scan from a top class player and hdmi is vanishingly small
     
  9. idhutt

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    Whats propriatory about HDMI? I thought it was the new industry standard so that different manufacturers audio and visual components can be interconected digitally and at high resolution whilst keeping the content owners happy.

    -Ian
     
  10. Brogan

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    One of the biggest problems as has already been mentioned - is the lack of information on exactly how to set up the devices utilising an HDMI connection.
    There are so many settings in the 868 and 504 that it could literally take weeks of fiddling and even then you probably wouldn't hit on the best set-up.
    I too am amazed that there is no obvious resolution to use and whichever one you do use has to be scaled up or down (or both) by either the player or the panel - or both!

    Too much hype, not enough substance.
     
  11. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
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    HDMI is almost like scart - it brings together DVI technology and what is very similar to ilink for audio, but isn't a new technology in it's own right.

    There are extras over the DVI standard, for instance HDMI can send interlaced video as well as progressive. For the moment, the audio side of things is limited to just 2 channel but eventually it will be wideband multi-channel audio similar in operation to iLink.
     
  12. Costas

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    I found that HDMI offers a definite improvement. I have done a lot of tests with the 868 and 757. However, as you can see on the other thread I raised ("Pioneer 434 resolution correlation to 868 player HD input ") the 1280 x 720p setting on the player it does not produce the best picture on the 434 but it could be on the 504 (anyone to comment?).

    Fully agree that the settings are not at all well explained in the manuals (434 & 868s). I have also put across to Pioneer my obervations with the 1280 x 720p setting. They said that it should be the best setting theoretically but they had not yet receive the 868 in their lab to do some Uk tests themselves.
    Surely the info on my thread from the forum members gives some very interesting answers....ahead on any further response from Pioneer.
     
  13. Brogan

    Brogan
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    Well as the 1280 x 720 setting requires 2 separate stages of scaling - H and V in the player and V again in the plasma, I have gone for the 720 x 480 which requires just 1 stage of scaling in the plasma in both H and V.

    I thought the general consensus was to have as few scaling stages as possible but of course that depends on which device has the better scaler and whether the scaling degrades the signal at all.
     
  14. BKATZ

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    I looked at a 504 /868/HDMI @720p last week at Liam's. The 504 was straight out of the box, zero hours but the picture was far better than the 576p we were looking at ten minutes before!

    Over to Liam as he has had a week to play with it now....

    B.
     
  15. Costas

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    Yes we did Brogan. But I was interested in seeing if two upscales both H and V from 868 and 504 look a bit better than the two scaling operations when the 434 is used (player upscales, 434 upscales V and downscales h)
     
  16. Brogan

    Brogan
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    Well in the case of the 504 it would be up in H and V from the 868 and then up in V for the 504 - so 2 stages in the V and 1 stage in the H.

    I did do some tests but TBH, I'm pretty useless when it comes to spotting differences/improvements between audio or picture quality.
    I'm willing to loan out my lounge for the evening though if someone else wants to try...:D
     
  17. joys_R_us

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    HDMI is an improvement over DVI as it requires the equipment certified by testlabs to make sure every device with HDMI can work with other HDMI device. This exactly was and is a problem with DVI !
     
  18. AVWotcha

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    Interesting question.

    I'd also like to know. How much difference is there between a HDMI connected DVD player and the HDMI connected HiDef digital VCR that plays the Pioneer Demo ?

    If it's anywhere near as good as the demo (which I saw yeterday in Tottenham Court Rd), I'd be seriously tempted to buy.
     
  19. Joe Fernand

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    AV Wotcha

    I'm guessing what you saw yesterday was a JVC HM-DH3000U D-VHS deck feeding a Pioneer 04 HDE via YUV not HDMI - as its this player Pioneer have been using for demo systems; though there is also a newer JVC '4000' D-Theatre deck available.

    The JVC '3000' D-Theatre deck is not a UK product and not HDMI enabled - though possibly the 4000 unit is; I dont have a 4000 so cant confirm.

    The D-Theater pretty much blows away most if not all DVD players - though some critics dont like the HiDef 'look' (Zero7)

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  20. Brogan

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    I'm absolutely amazed that R&D/marketing/development money, time and effort is being wasted on an obselete form of AV technology :eek:
    Who wants to go back to a serial/linear form of media like tape after being used to disk based systems in which any part is instantly accessible?
    Not me.

    Out of interest, do these new HD VHS machines output multi-channel audio?
     
  21. Costas

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    AV Wotcha

    The D-VHS format sets the highest standard thus far for HD picture quality, and as well, sound quality in a home video format. Better than DVD! However, I think outside US has not been really promoted and with DVD and HD-DVD available already the consumers preference has gone that way here. It seems it is rather late for a full introduction of HD D-VHS which I would more than welcome!
     
  22. Costas

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    Brogan, do not be so absolutely negative about it. I am sure you have not seen it. If picture quality is your prime concern you cannot fault it or disregard it!
    I agree the disk flexibililty is the DVD huge plus and I expect it to keep D-VHS out!
     
  23. Brogan

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    You're right - I haven't seen it but it doesn't matter how much better it is than DVD, I would never go back to such an inflexible medium.
    It would be akin to going back to terrestrial analogue TV after having had Sky+.
    If PQ was my prime concern then I would go the HTPC route.
    As it is, DVD PQ is more than good enough for me...I have a hard enough time telling the difference between composite and HDMI so I doubt hi-def would be that important to me.

    IMO, it will go the way DAT did.
     
  24. Joe Fernand

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    Brogan

    Guess what about 99% of all the TV, Movie, Corporate and Private video material in the world is captured on - I'm pretty sure its not a Hard Drive!!!

    D-VHS is a spin off from pro technology used by JVC to capture a whole heap of TV and Corporate work and once you've seen it you will forgive it the fact that its not a Hard Drive.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  25. Brogan

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    Joe - I don't have a problem with the "industry" using tape as a medium but personally I would never go back to it.
    Can you imagine using a tape player instead of a CD player and having to fast forward through tracks to listen to the one you want?
    We haven't used a VCR now for several years so D-VHS is not something that we're ever going to want.

    Besides, it's not like PQ is most peoples prime reason for buying equipment.
    If it was, not many plasmas would get sold...

    Anyway, we're getting slightly OT here.
     
  26. Joe Fernand

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    Hi Brogan

    I'm with you on not going back to tape for anything I need to search around on quickly but for watching a movie 'end to end' you should go look at a D-VHS player before you dismiss it outright.

    In a way we are still 'on topic' as D-VHS via YUV is way better than anything I've seen from an HDMI equipped DVD player.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  27. Bernard Barnett

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    Retro reckons a UK version of the JVC 4k D-VHS player is going to be launched around March. Have a look in the high-def forum.
     
  28. AVWotcha

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    Hmmm, tis a shame though, because it's obvious from the demo what the screen is truely capable of if given a decent source.

    From my perspective as a potential buyer, given what you say above, I don't see any major advantage of having a HDMI connected player. I'd be better off sticking to a component or even RGB connected device and saving my money for something like HD DVD or D-VHS or whatever when/if they come along.
     

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