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Is Hd-dvd Going To Be Top Dog ?

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by crank, Sep 28, 2005.

  1. crank

    crank
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  2. Steve_Whelan

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    I think Blue-Ray may get a dominant posistion simply because of the PS3.
     
  3. Shakey_Jake33

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    It all seems to be pretty even now that MS and Intel are supporting HD-DVD.

    I'll be going with the least restrictive format.
     
  4. Northerner76

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    Its a hard one to call... Blu-Ray is alledgedly the more cutting edge technology, but HD-DVD offers the fabrication plants a simpler upgrade path - reminds me a bit of Betamax v VHS - and in that case the technologically inferior solution won!

    I personally had hoped that MS owuld fit a HD-DVD into the Xbox360 and then the impact of PS3 would be negated...
     
  5. crank

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    :devil: Minidisc anyone :D
     
  6. loadsofleads

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    I think DVD players which can play both formats will be out within a short time making the war academic, it is possible both formats could co-exist for years if one DVD player will play both. White Van Man (aka Joe Bloggs who reads Dear Deirdre) would be none the wiser which he was buying !!
     
  7. m1ket

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    anyone who is serious about High Def movies wont rely on a ps3 or xbox360 they will get a standalone player

    HD-DVD seems more advanced at present with blue ray still only lab proven in many areas
     
  8. crank

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    :smashin: Not only more advanced but also a lot cheaper and this would be a big benefit to us all :D
     
  9. kenji-san

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    not too long ago, bluray seemed like the perfect next generation dvd format, with it's specifics overshadowing the hd-dvd. Now, they have started talking about all kinds of crazy encryption / online verification of disc content and, according to that toms hardware read, they can't prove their 50gb discs?? Also the production plants in China supports hd-dvd because it's cheaper make it seem like Sony & co. is making things stupidly difficult for themselves.

    Maybe in 10 years, when people talk about bluray, they say 'yeah it's that strange dvd format that only ps3 has.'
     
  10. westwing2505

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    In my opinion, whatever the porn industry decides to support will be the dominant standard. If I remember correctly, the betamax vs VHS was decided when the ''...someone does Dallas" was released on VHS. Plus, porn industries are very quick to embrace technology. I may be wrong but besides games, porn is one of the biggest industries and whatever it decides to release, majority of the consumers will follow - me included :devil:
     
  11. Rasczak

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    Dual players are not going to be readily available until someone develops a suitable pickup head. Currently tri-wavelength heads that support HD DVD, DVD and CD are on the verge of mass production. BluRay dual pickup heads (BluRay and DVD) are likewise. However it is not likely to be until late next year when BluRay tri-wavelength heads start appearing (probably from Hitachi first and then Philips/BenQ). It will be even longer before anyone makes a four format head. Thus dual formats models, as proposed by Samsung for example, will probably be a dual drive system, i.e. it will have two seperate drives: one for CD/DVD/HD DVD and one for BluRay. We have already seen machines that incorporate twin drives in the Panasonic E700 or Sony BDZS77 which use one drive for CD/DVD and one for BluRay. As you see they are big and operate slowly (due to the mechanism) and so may not appeal to many.

    Personally I think a number of factors will influence which format 'wins':
    - Number and range of titles available (so far only HD DVD have announced any)
    - Cost of the discs (which seems a clear advantage of HD DVD)
    - Compatibility with CD and DVD (currently advantage HD DVD but probably becoming a non-issue in a year or two)
    - Number of machines/devices that support the format (heavily biased in BluRay's favour in the CE market especially given PS3, but slightly more even in the PC market).
    - Robustness of the discs (clear advantage HD DVD)
    - Levels of DRM used on the discs (likely to be extensive on both formats).

    I'm not convinced potential capacity of the discs will be a significant selling point or benefit to consumers for pre-recorded content - an MPEG4 movie with multiple soundtracks, one of which is lossless, will fit on a dual layer HD DVD with space to spare. Certainly the demos of single layer HD DVD that I have seen are very impressive. And compression is only going to get better not worse.

    I think it is far to early to try to predict who will 'win' this war...
     
  12. Lionheart

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    I love my MD deck
     
  13. Theriomophic

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    Another point to mention in the format war is Microsoft.
    Microsoft has stated that the new version of Windows Vista and subsequent update in XP will support HD DVD only. The are not going to build compatibilty for blu-ray - and considering that 90% or more of the PCs out there run Windows it is an awfully big market to get adoption with.

    My 2cents worth. :rotfl:

    T
     
  14. Wasabi

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    I reckon regulators in the US and EU will look into this in the long term and MSFT's abuse of their power in terms of monopoly position, like in the case of Windows Media Player and Internet Explorer, where Microsoft going forward has to offer future OS without them.

    Does compability means that no bluray recorders will work under Vista OS?

    Benq,Dell,HP,Sony, Pioneer, Liteon, Philips, LG and Samsung won't be happy that only NEC products will work :(

    Wasabi
     
  15. Theriomophic

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    If I were in Microsoft's position I would do exactly the same. What do you think Sony are doing with the PS3?

    I remember the day before Windows 98 came along it was an absolute pig to try and configure a PC to run anything including games until Microsoft came out the the Windows Driver Model and Direct X.
    Now everybody gets exactly what they are doing with XNA and will get the benefits of that with cross generation of gaming coming soon with PC and Xbox 360 owners being able to play on live in the same game. I personally cannot wait for the next adventure in the long running battle battle between Microsoft and Sony. I only wish Microsoft would just buy them outright and be done with it - they certainly have the cash in the bank :D.

    T :rolleyes:
     
  16. danvitale

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    Ive got a feeling that HD-DVD will be used most with PCs, and BluRay with Home Entertainment.

    The days of burning your own Movie DVDs may be on its way out..
     
  17. Wasabi

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    True, MSFT has mega dosh in their wallet. :)

    One small bad news though for the millions soon to be XBOX360 buyers hoping for HD-DVD versions, MSFT has decided not to incorporate it. http://www.imdb.com/news/sb/2005-09-27

    Wasabi
     
  18. DanDT

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    Comparisons with the MD are kinda flawed. MD never had a platform like PS3 to launch it. PS3 will sell millions of units in the first year, and if it's going to be as sussessful as PS1 or PS2, it will sell 100M units in 5 years or so.

    That a whole lot of units, and i'm sure it will be much more than HDDVD players sold.

    Bluray has a real chance to succeed, much more than any of the other formats Sony tried to launch (Betamax, MD, UMD, MemStick etc). All because of the dominance of the bloody Playstation brand.

    Also, it's worth mentioning that Samsung already has players capable of running both formats. Not on sale yet obviously, but many other companies will follow them.

    So for the consumer it won't be as bad as the Betamax/VHS days.

    In the end, if you have a PS3, you'll be playing HD movies on Bluray, if you don't, you'll be able to buy hybrid players that can read both formats. The only confusing bit might become the media, with some boxes saying "HDDVD" and some saying "Bluray". But in the end, if you can read both on the same player, it shouldn't be that bad.
     
  19. cerebros

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    Sorry, but this is a complete non-issue. All this means is that support for Blu-ray won't be built into the OS. It doesn't mean that you can't put a Blu-Ray drive into your PC - you'll just have to install a driver to do so (like you do with any hardware if you want to use it at its full potential, rather than relying on the built-in drivers).
     
  20. Rasczak

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    But bear in mind my comments above - do many people want DVD players the size of 80s VCRs these days?

    Indeed - you will be able to use BluRay on the PC - it just won't have native support. Not a major issue.

    They have decided not to incorporate it into the first generation. There could well be a HD DVD XBox 360 released before the PS3 ever comes to market. That said given the high price the PS3 is rumoured to arrive at, and the large numbers of people who don't have a suitable TV/Screen for high def movies, I doubt PS3 will be that significant to be honest - not in the short term anyway.
     
  21. DanDT

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    Why do you say that? They only need to be as big/small as normal players. You only need one tray/slot. Only the laser needs to be more complicated, but that's hardly going to make the unit bigger.
     
  22. Rasczak

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    As I said above - look at the Panasonic E700 or Sony BZS77. Your effectively looking at a machine with two seperate drives built in. Even the 'slimline' E800 prototype (that again effectively uses two drives) is still larger than a 'full size' VCR. A four format head is, at the least, several years away. As things stand here and now no BluRay company has put an optical head into mass production that can read CDs - let alone HD DVD as well. There may be ones in development (Panasonic, Philips and Hitachi are all developing them) but none have been demonstrated yet at CE fairs...
     
  23. richard plumb

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    I understand what you are saying about playing movies on a console, but this isn't exactly PS2 again. Bluray will be an all digital path. The PS3 will read the data, decode it, and pump it down the HDMI path. Some decoders may be more equal than others, but there are no DACs and much less room for error.

    Also, consider the CELL part of the equation. That thing will be way more powerful than any standalone player, so will be *capable* of better results. Whether it lives up to it depends on how good the software guys at Sony are. And they could potentially update it via the net (like they can with PSP)



    They've had bluray based recorders on the market in Japan now for over a year. The ROM version has a slightly different spec, but the hardware is already proven.
     
  24. DanDT

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    Well i think it's safe to expect future players with one drive and one multi-purpose lens. Like it happened with CDs and DVDs. Eventually it will happen.
     
  25. danvitale

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    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09/30/dell_hp_vs_ms_intel/

    Dell, HP slam Intel, MS' 'erroneous' HD DVD claims

    Backers of the Blu-ray Disc (BD) have hit back against "erroneous" claims from Intel and Microsoft that HD DVD is the superior next-generation optical disc format for PCs.

    The joint Intel/Microsoft statement was said to be "not aligned" with the "vast majority" of computer industry participants, Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) members Dell and HP said.

    "Microsoft and Intel's announcement erroneously indicates that HD-DVD has an advantage in a number of areas," they claimed, pointing to the chip and software giants' statement that HD DVD offers a greater storage capacity than BD.

    As The Register noted at the time, Intel and MS' claim that HD DVD's 30GB capacity is better than BD's 25GB is nonsense: the two companies conveniently ignored the fact they were talking about dual-layer HD DVD discs and single-layer BDs.

    Dell and HP also challenged MS and Intel on their claim that HD DVD is the only format to allow users to make controlled copies of the content stored on the disc: that's part of the AACS copy-protection system, the BDA said, and AACS is also part of the BD spec.

    BD also provides scope for hybrid discs, backward compatibility with DVD, the ability to operate in slimline drives for notebook PCs and a high degree of interactivity, all features MS and Intel claimed were only available with HD DVD, the PC vendors said.

    "Dell has no doubt that BD best meets the needs of computer users and provides the type of open industry standards needed to drive innovation and growth of the format across all platforms - consumer electronic, personal computers and gaming consoles," the company's CTO, Kevin Kettler said.

    "From a PC end-user perspective, Blu-ray is a superior format. It offers 67-150 per cent more storage capacity, higher transfer rates, slimline notebook compatibility, broadband connectivity and a proven interactive layer with BD-Java," added Maureen Weber, general manager of HP's Personal Storage Business.
     
  26. kenji-san

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    go go go! bluray! :thumbsup:
     
  27. flipfella

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    RE: the PS3, dont forget a lot of owners will be kids using RF/composite out into a 4:3 >28" screen

    After they pay the premium price for the hi-def version of a film, and it looks no better on there setup then the dvd version, they won't bother again paying the premium, and go back to dvd
     
  28. crank

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    :smashin: Now thats a valid point :D
     
  29. asherpat

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    guys,

    why argue about which dvd format is superior or will win when video on demand and off-site data storage will make them both obsolete, given the ever increasing rates of boradband (see "be" company offering 24MB/S connection for a few quid a month).

    will appreciate your opinions
     
  30. Rasczak

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    I'll be interested to know if you still say the same when you find the discs only last a few uses before failing...

    It is far to early to say which next generation format is best. Looking at the specifications is only half the story.
     

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