1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Is Fox run by morons?

Discussion in 'TV Show Forum' started by Nebby, Oct 22, 2005.

  1. Nebby

    Nebby
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2004
    Messages:
    1,155
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    Ratings:
    +40
    I ask having just raced through the Firefly box set - how the hell was this show cancelled?

    I hope that Serenity - the big screen spin off - will become another Blade Runner, and find a place in everyone's hearts when it hits the rental market.

    Then - hopefully - some bright spark exec somewhere will realise what a fumble Fox has made, and pick up the show, and we can look forward to having all those questions answered.
     
  2. steve36

    steve36
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Messages:
    927
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Warwickshire
    Ratings:
    +28
    There are many shows in the last couple of years that should have been given the chance to gain an audience but were abruptly cancelled after between 1/2 and 1 1/2 series, a few of them run by fox.
    In some cases they were cancelled because the network decided they had a much better idea rather than extremely low ratings.
    One prime FOX example of this is 'Tru calling', it was cancelled to make way for 'Point pleasant' which FOX thought in their wisdom would fit better with their other shows such as 'OC'. There are others......
    I think that U.S.A TV management should be replaced by people who like TV rather than just money. They all seem far too hasty to cancel shows without giving them a chance (including NBC & ABC).

    If the UK was as quick to cancel many shows which are popular (even if not good!), would not have survived. These include Only fools and horses, Coupling, Red Dwarf.

    Steve
     
  3. steve36

    steve36
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Messages:
    927
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Warwickshire
    Ratings:
    +28
    I even forgot to mention the rush to cancel Angel, another Whedon production. That show would have been far better if it did not have to struggle every season to get any funding.
    I wonder if they count the now high DVD sales into their calculations today?

    I don't think he had a chance in the USA market with Firefly, especially if Enterprice and Farscape had been cancelled.

    Steve
     
  4. PoochJD

    PoochJD
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2000
    Messages:
    10,992
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Norwich
    Ratings:
    +1,862
    Hi Nebby,

    Essentially, Fox screwed-up, and Joss Whedon got a tad hacked-off with them!

    Firstly, Fox didn't like the Pilot Episode, so that had to be rewritten, to make it a bit more "obvious" and less subtle. (In other words, Fox wanted it dumbed-down!) Then Fox, decided the new Pilot Episode (the one on the DVD) was too complex and not action-packed enough. So, in all their wisdom :rolleyes:, Fox decided to air Episode 3 (The Train Job) first. Thus, viewers in the USA, were shown an episode, where none of the characters were properly introduced to them, and viewers wondered what the hell was going on.

    To top things off, the remaining episodes were all shown out of order, and the Pilot Episode was eventually shown after the rest of the series had ended! :mad: And, just to really :censored: Joss Whedon off, Fox kept pre-empting the show, and changing its scheduled time slot, to different days and times, without warning people. Oh, and they never promoted the show either.

    Hence, the US fans left the show in droves, and when the show was premiered on the UK Sci-Fi Channel, they spoke directly to Whedon, and got him to sort out all the chronology and tell them exactly how he wanted this series to be shown.

    UK fans loved it, and then sent copies of the episodes in the correct order, to US fans, who - when they saw the show in its proper and correct episodic order - loved it to pieces! Sadly, by this point, Fox had signed its death card already, the gits!

    Finally, the show was released to UK DVD, and fans from all over the world bought it up very, very quickly. This made Fox reconsider their mistake, and Whedon was given a budget and chance to make a movie.

    The movie, as I'm sure you now know, has become a worldwide hit, both with critics, fans and non-fans of the show! And rightly so! :clap:


    Pooch
     
  5. DLPMaybe

    DLPMaybe
    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2005
    Messages:
    933
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Ratings:
    +52
    I think Joss Whedon is pretty much as close to genius as your going to get in TV. For him to get messed around to such a degree is a disgrace. Buffy, Angel and Firefly are still some of my favourite shows. Great characters, funny and great story.

    I love the scene in Firefly when the Mal is trying to convicing the crew to go and help some people out, without any success. Mal then mentions the people in trouble are whores, a revelation which leads to Jaynes immediate approval. :clap: Class! :clap:
     
  6. tichtich

    tichtich
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2003
    Messages:
    476
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    Ratings:
    +33
    You can't blame the studios for being in it for the money. That's what businesses exist for. But you can blame them for taking such a short-term view, and for not giving the series a decent chance.

    The latest news is that Serenity didn't do so well in the States. (I guess they didn't have a Jonathan Ross praising it.) It'll probably break even, but not make enough money to get a sequel. Still, if Joss Whedon fails in the movie business, perhaps he'll just have to go back to TV, which would suit me. ;)
     
  7. stlic

    stlic
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2004
    Messages:
    744
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +15
    By the time Serenity hits DVD release I would be shocked if it didn't do far better than break even even with the dissapointing theater numbers from the states; after all it was made on a resonable budget given they already had most of the props in storage.

    I couldn't believe when I heard FOX originally aired the show in the wrong order, especially given the continuation of the story; it's like if they aired Carnivale without the pilot. As it was Firefly was an enjoyable series and I managed to catch it a couple of years after. Havn't been to see Serenity yet but may do if it's still showing in a few weeks time.
     
  8. pjclark1

    pjclark1
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,411
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Thailand
    Ratings:
    +271
    I thought Firefly was pooh!

    Serenity was OK, but the end was a bit silly, guys with big rapid fire guns couldn't fight off 20 half crazed baddies, but a seventeen year old girl with a sword could. (count the bodies for yourself)

    How does that work then?
     
  9. Starburst

    Starburst
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    17,838
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Ilkeston
    Ratings:
    +979


    Last time I looked very few action/sf movies make a lot of sense if you were to transpose those scenes into the real world.
    Dozens of highly armed guards are rarely beaten by a single individual armed with a pistol and knife and certainly don't empty a dozen clips worth of ammo from assault rifles and miss!


    It's the movies:)
     
  10. tichtich

    tichtich
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2003
    Messages:
    476
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    Ratings:
    +33
    I found with Firefly (as with most science fiction series/films) that I had to switch off my critical thinking (which keeps noticing when stuff is unrealistic) and treat it more like a fantasy. Once I did that I really enjoyed it. I loved the characters, their relationships, the witty dialogue, the images, and not least the music. I was a bit disappointed with Serenity, especially the second half, which concentrated more on the action and less on the characterisation. And I missed the Western-style music.
     
  11. DLPMaybe

    DLPMaybe
    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2005
    Messages:
    933
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Ratings:
    +52
    I second that. To start the movie in disapointment at the music was not a good start!
     
  12. sonofmoth

    sonofmoth
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2002
    Messages:
    384
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +1
    Fox are just plain stupid. Loved the Firefly boxset and, as with all Whedon series, the characters evolve over time. Hopefully Universal will commission a new series and let Joss get on with it without any hindrance. You just know that Fox would have cancelled Buffy in the same manner. Words fail me.....
     
  13. Razor

    Razor
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2004
    Messages:
    37,547
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +12,504
    I still cant understand why Firefly was binned. Talk about shooting themselves in the foot. :confused:
     
  14. Starburst

    Starburst
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    17,838
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Ilkeston
    Ratings:
    +979


    Putting aside it's performance which could easily be attributed to it's timeslot/prempts for baseball and any promotion or lack there of I still get the impression that the show simply was not what the suits were expecting from Joss. Pretty much in the same vain as the original Star Trek which wasn't the show they suits were expecting or were actually told they were going to get:)

    The difference between the two is perhaps the simple fact the TV market was totally different to what it was 10 years ago let alone the late 1960's and studios are prepared to write off serious money in the belief that spending a similar amount on a new project may workout better.
    Buffy was a mid-season replacment after all:)
     
  15. NicolasB

    NicolasB
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    6,036
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Emily's Shop
    Ratings:
    +660
    Angel ended when it should have done - the last series was definitely a step down from its previous greatness. And Tru Calling should have been cancelled a lot sooner.

    To my mind the most perplexing cancellation (after Firefly which was the worst cancellation decision ever) was cancelling "Babylon 5: Crusade" mid way through the first series. That, I felt, could have gone on to really great things.

    Personally I thought there was still some life in Enterprise too. The fourth season wasn't as good as the the third, but I think that was because they already knew that they weren't going to get a 5th season, and they were rushing to try and squeeze in everything they wanted to include.
     
  16. Razor

    Razor
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2004
    Messages:
    37,547
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +12,504

    Dam shame it got axed. I picked up Firefly when I saw the HD trailer for Serenity many moons ago and I really enjoyed the show. In fact I was gutted when I saw the last Firefly episode (No.12). :(


    Nicholas B

    I agree with what you say, Enterprise was getting so good and I was upset to see it cancelled. There isn't even talk of a replcement. No more star terk for a long while. :(
     
  17. steve36

    steve36
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Messages:
    927
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Warwickshire
    Ratings:
    +28
    Star Trek was not the show that the studios in the 1960's were told they were going to get. Times have not changed that much.

    One serious problem in TV today is that people do not have time to allow for character development, they want more action, according to the studios (see Enterprise for evidence). In my opinion without good character development there is no loyalty and therefore no reason to watch every episode.

    NicolasB, I have to that my expectations for Sci fi must be reducing over time, I thought that Tru Calling was quite good, and improving greatly as the series ended. Especially with the fight between her and Jason Priestly to save people/leave things as intended.

    Steve
     
  18. mattym

    mattym
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2003
    Messages:
    2,116
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    maidstone
    Ratings:
    +101
    Joss Whedon already wrote the screenplay for Toy Story and Alien resurrection among others, so hes good for a movie in that respect.

    i agree with the Enterprise comments, was getting better again. Also Crusade, Babylon 5 started slowly and really picked up, the potential was high for Crusade.
     
  19. Garrett

    Garrett
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2001
    Messages:
    32,979
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Location:
    The best thief you’ll never see.
    Ratings:
    +4,343
    I did not like the presenter’s comments in the interval when he was asked to score the program and said if Babylon 5 was 1 and Star Wars were 10 how would he rate it.
    Errr was Babylon 5 too hard for him to follow.


    The first 2 seasons of Enterprise were so so but thought they really picked up in the 3rd and 4th and could have ended up one of the best Trek series.
     
  20. krish

    krish
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Messages:
    29,247
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    nr. Pinner
    Ratings:
    +9,649
    No, Fox did not wise up
    - Universal was behind Serenity and I believe bought the movie rights from Fox after a Universal exec who wanted Whedon to make a movie was told by him that he wanted to put Firefly on the big screen; also note that the word "Firefly" is not mentioned in the movie or marketing/website since that would mean paying Fox further.
    - Also I believe Whedon is so f'd off with Fox that he went elsewhere
     
  21. tichtich

    tichtich
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2003
    Messages:
    476
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    Ratings:
    +33
    I quite agree. But haven't things got better compared with a few decades ago? Back then, most series had virtually no development at all, with every episode being an independent story. Think of the original Star Trek, for example. Apparently the studios preferred it that way, as it meant the episodes could be broadcast in any order, and viewers could miss episodes without losing the thread of the story, so they wouldn't be put off coming back again. I suspect that what changed this attitude was the rise of the VCR, which made it easier for people to avoid missing episodes.

    Now, with the availability of DVD sets and digital TV (which often broadcasts episodes several times during the week) and PVRs, it's easier than ever to see a series right through from start to finish. So we should be seeing even more development. And are we? Well, not as much as you and I would like. But there have been plenty of series with more development than we would have expected in the past. We had seven seasons of Buffy. We had the new Dr Who. And now we've got Lost. And I expect there are others that I haven't watched or can't remember right now.
     
  22. NicolasB

    NicolasB
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    6,036
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Emily's Shop
    Ratings:
    +660
    I should probably say that I've only watched series 1 of Tru Calling. I agree that it did pick up a little bit when Jack arrived on the scene.

    The biggest problem that series like this tend to have is that they are entirely episodic - each story happens in a vacuum, and things are basically the same at the end of each episode as they were at the beginning. There's no overall plot, and no development of the characters.

    In series where there is a periodic underlying plot, it's usually episodes that focus on developing that underlying plot that are the best ones. Most of the best episodes in DS9, for example, are ones that focus on the conflict with The Dominion, and/or the whole Cardassian/Bajoran thing. Most of the best X-Files episodes were ones that dealt with "the conspiracy" - cigarette smoking man and his buddies. Enterprise only really took off in series 3 with an ongoing story arc. The first season of Babylon 5 was rather too episodic, on the whole - once they were into season 2 they really started to tell an ongoing story, and it improved immeasurably. Even in Voyager, most of the best episodes involve situations that are developed from earlier episodes - encounters with the Borg and the Hirogen, for example.

    Joss Whedon's work is another fine example: the story evolves from episode to episode, and the characters change as they go along. Compare Wesley when he first arrives in Sunnydale with the Wesley who keeps a woman locked in a cupboard while obsessively searching for Angel: huge transition, but actually quite a believable one.

    Firefly was brilliant - not only was every episode a great story in its own right, but there were also all kinds of fascinating teasing hints being dropped without fully explaining things. What exactly had happened to River? And all sorts of things to suggest that Shepherd Book was not quite who he appeared to be.

    I'm enjoying Lost, but I'm not as big a fan of it as some people are. There is an attempt made at developing an ongoing story and developing the characters, but because there are so many main characters, and because each episode is split between present time and flashbacks, the rate at which either the historic or present-time story develops is a little too slow and fragmented to be satisfying. Again, the best episodes tend to be the ones that focus mainly on the ongoing situation on the island. I loved the encounter between Sayid and the french woman (Rousseau) for example. (Although casting a British Asian actor as an Iraqi arab, and a Croatian actress as a frenchwoman took a bit of swallowing!)
     
  23. davet010

    davet010
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2004
    Messages:
    384
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +10
    Too right, Nicholas. Watching the DVD box set is almost painful, knowing what the show should/could have been. The explanation for the changing uniforms is just hilarious though, shows what idiots network execs are.
     
  24. tichtich

    tichtich
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2003
    Messages:
    476
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    Ratings:
    +33
    I was toying with the idea of buying the Tru Calling DVDs, as I haven't seen it at all. But you've just put me right off.

    Absolutely.

    And also the stories of Garak and Gul Dukat, the best two characters in the series IMO.

    I never watched enough of the X-files to see much story arc, so gave up on it.

    After watching a couple of early episodes I gave up on it. Not only was it too episodic, as you say, but I found most of the acting thoroughly unconvincing (with one or two honourable exceptions). Towards the end of season 2 a couple of my friends started raving about it, so I gave it another try and really got into it. The acting hadn't improved, but the story arcs (the Shadow war, the Centauri empire succession and the Babylon 4 stuff) were very interesting. Plus the special effects and other production values were very impressive; I loved the Shadow ships and the Shadows themselves. Then, at the start of season 5 (I think it was) it went back to the episodic format, plus I found the character/actor of Marcus the ranger really irritating, so I stopped watching again.

    Yes, and don't forget the development of 7of9's character, though this did seem like a bit of a reprise of Data's development from TNG. But 7of9 had the advantage of being much easier on the eyes. Mmm...

    La la la. Trying not to read that, as I haven't seen season 5 yet. ;) Anyway, I'm more of a Buffy than an an Angel fan, myself. The characters of Gunn, Fred and Lorne never interested me much, nor Angel himself, though Angelus was great.

    As well as the questions about what had gone before, there was so much potential for future development, and Joss obviously had some stuff in mind. Will we ever find out what it was?

    My main concern over Lost is whether there will ever be a satisfying explanation of all the mysteries. I'm afraid the end might be a big let down. But, in the meantime, I'm quite happy with it.
     
  25. NicolasB

    NicolasB
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    6,036
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Emily's Shop
    Ratings:
    +660
    Ah, well, the reason for that is rather interesting. B5's creator, Mike Stracynski, had originally planned the show as a full 5 seasons. Round about the beginning of season 4, the network started to threaten cancellation, and eventually more or less decided that the show was going to be canned at the end of season 4.

    As a consequence, the show's creators then had to try and cram would would have been the whole of seasons 4 and 5 into just one season. This is why the pacing goes all wrong in season 4, and the whole Shadow/Vorlon scenario rather unexpectedly (and, in some ways, anti-climactically) comes to an end to make way for the "civil war with Earth" story. They even shot what was going to be the very last episode intending to show it at the end of season 4.

    At the very last minute, the show got a reprieve, and they were given a fifth season after all! So they then attempted to work in some of the stuff they had originally intended to put into seasons 4 and 5 - but the result was, inevitably, rather uneasy. The episode that eventually aired at the end of season 5 had been shot at the end of season 4, and thus seems a little out of place, too - it features Ivanova, for example, who is absent for the whole of the rest of season 5.

    It's all still worth watching, even so.

    I've not yet seen the movie "Serenity" but I'm told that it more or less follows on from the end of the TV series. At one time they were fairly definitely planning on two movie sequels to "Serenity" - I'm not sure if that idea has been canned as a result of the rather mediocre performance of the current movie at the US box office.

    Rumour has it that the writers themselves haven't yet made their minds up about what is happening on the island. They figure speculation between fans on the Internet will eventually produce a cooler explanation than they can come up with themselves. :rolleyes:
     
  26. tichtich

    tichtich
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2003
    Messages:
    476
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    Ratings:
    +33
    I've seen Serenity. It's set about 6 months after the end of the series. I don't won't to give out any spoilers, so suffice to say that there's still lots left to cover.

    Oh dear. That means there is no rational basis for the events we've seen, even if one might be thought up later. Also, it makes it even more likely that the eventual explanation will be unsatisfactory, since they may well have painted themselves into a corner that they can't get out of. For my own peace of mind, I'm just going to assume the rumours are unfounded. ;)
     
  27. tichtich

    tichtich
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2003
    Messages:
    476
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    Ratings:
    +33
    Talking of series cancelled by the maroons at Fox... I've just watched the pilot of Wonderfalls, which was cancelled after broadcasting just 4 episodes, but 13 were made. I heard some very good things about this series, so bought it on DVD (region 1 only so far). I really liked the pilot. It made me laugh more than I have for a while, and I'm looking forward to watching the rest of the series.

    Firefly fans may like to note that Tim Minear was one of the executive producers on Wonderfalls, and apparently Jewel Staite appears in later episodes. Review here: http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=14200&___rd=1

    Another series that's had some good reviews (and was made by one of the same creators as Wonderfalls) is Dead Like Me. That one wasn't a Fox series, which might explain why it ran for two seasons before it got cancelled. I think I'll wait and see if it comes to Sky Three, rather than rushing out and buying the DVDs.
     
  28. steve36

    steve36
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Messages:
    927
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Warwickshire
    Ratings:
    +28
    Nicolas,
    I was going to mention the BEST sci-fi ever, Babylon 5 but it really deserves yet another thread of it's own!

    I agree entirely about Babylon 5, I had watched it for 3 years only to find that the 'final' season (S4) was rushed due to yet again the studios getting cold feet. I hoped that the DVD sales would have changed their ideas, looking at what they did to Crusade I was wrong. B5 was still 5000% better than the political story that is Star Trek.
    I've still bought series 5 as it contains better sci-fi than a lot of DS9. That said DS9 did improve greatly when the had the confidence to do an ongoing plot during the last season or so. Then again I am prejudiced, DS9 was started as competition for B5. I think it showed for quite a while why space station sci-fi was always thought to be a bad idea.

    Steve
     
  29. tichtich

    tichtich
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2003
    Messages:
    476
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    Ratings:
    +33
    Re Babylon 5. I see the complete set is now available with all 5 seasons, plus Crusade, plus the 5 TV movies, for £140 from Amazon. (And you can get 10% off by paying £6 for one month's membership of their DVD rental scheme. That's what I did when I ordered my complete Buffy set.)

    Re Tru Calling. I just noticed that the series is going to be broadcast starting in the first week of Sky Three. See schedule here. Good job I decided not to buy the DVDs!
     
  30. Kopite4Ever

    Kopite4Ever
    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Messages:
    4,302
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    Liverpool: European Capital of Football 2005/2006
    Ratings:
    +76
    yes fox are morons in a way. dark angel was promised a third season so they left S2 open at the end to carry on. during the start of production for S3 fox tell them they are cancelling the show and giving the big budget to a new show called firefly. this then goes down the pan and fans of both shows have been shafted :mad: so i secretly hate firefly without watching it :D

    im not totally mad at fox, cmon they do fund and show 24 and allow them to do really what ever the hell they want :D
     

Share This Page

Loading...