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Is football incompatible with 100hz ?

Discussion in 'TVs' started by gtfc, May 22, 2004.

  1. gtfc

    gtfc
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    Hi,

    Just got a new TV (Panasonic PD30 32") with 100hz and other modes. Tried watching todays footie on BBC1, it was impossible to watch. ( this was with Panasonics 100hz + mode which they say is the one for sport )

    As soon as there was any movement/panning/long shots the players and their edges fizzled and sparkled and became blurred.

    When in close up shots and studio shots quality was very good. also no matter what I did to the picture setting the grass was dull and washed out.

    Is this standard accross the board for high end CRTTVs and the price we pay for good DVD reproduction. looking at the same game through the same Nokia STB on my 8 year old Panny 21" was 10 times better.

    Thoughts ?
     
  2. Tight Git

    Tight Git
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    gtfc,

    Forgive me, but are you absolutely 110% certain that you're not in Acuity mode?

    The reason I ask is because the symptoms you describe are EXACTLY the effects the PD30 exhibits with Acuity selected.

    That's why 100Hz Plus is recommended for football.

    (Hope you enjoyed the game anyway!)
     
  3. carlton

    carlton
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    The symptons he describes are common to 100hz whatever mode
    the manufacture likes to tell u is the 'sport mode lol'.

    I think fast moving sports such as football at present look far better
    on 5 year old 50 hz sets then the new sets of today(crt or plasma) but this is the only occasion where they look better,so yes this is the price we pay.

    It will of course change in the future with hdtv broadcasts but until then..........
     
  4. Wayne Moule

    Wayne Moule
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    What's 100Hz Plus?
     
  5. Tight Git

    Tight Git
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    It's what Panasonic call their "Improved" 100Hz processing.

    Basically there is interpolation between frames to reduce stutter.

    (I posted a full explanation of all the Panny PD30 scanning modes a couple of weeks back.)
     
  6. adgeman

    adgeman
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    I've got a Sony KV28FX68U with a 100hz screen and it looks absolutely fantastic when I watch football on it. I've got Sky and watch about four games a week and I've NEVER noticed anything wrong with the picture at all.

    Just a shame I've got to sell it (see my thread about moving to Canada) ;)
     
  7. gtfc

    gtfc
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    Hi,

    It was definitely 100hz +, when trying in the Acuity ( 75/833 thingy ) it was atrocious and gave me brain ache !!! 100hz standard was poor and 100hz+ was the lesser of the evils, through the standard anologue feed it was poor as well but I didn't expect much. I'm going to try my other STB and hope my old Nokia ex OnDigital box simply does not give out a good enough signal. Could I have chosen the wrong TV for sport ?
     
  8. Maxi_TK96

    Maxi_TK96
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    As far as sports (especially footie) goes Philip's digital natural motion (part of PixelPlus) does very good job keeping the movement smooth. When I had Sony HQ100 and used the new picture power mode (Advanced 100 Hz something) small objects (like the actual ball) would actually flicker while they were moving very fast. The Philly hasn't had this kind of a problem.
     
  9. deputydawg

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    My new Sony KV32FX68U (100hz) shows no signs of smearing, artifacts etc and over
    the weekend gave me a superb picture (via Sky) for both the FA Cup and the Monaco Grand Prix. Highly delighted with this TV (which I purchased thanks to this forum).
     
  10. Tight Git

    Tight Git
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    In my case, it's "Have I chosen the wrong sport for TV?"

    You see, Snooker is even worse!
     
  11. Wayne Moule

    Wayne Moule
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    The Sony FX68U sounds interesting for good 100Hz going by the above 2, but I don't trust 100Hz.
     
  12. gtfc

    gtfc
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    Tight Git,

    Sorry to hear your choice of sport is a prob, bowls has many of the attributes of snooker, maybe you could change. the TV should be OK then.

    Regards gtfc
     
  13. Tight Git

    Tight Git
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    :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
     
  14. gtfc

    gtfc
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    Tight Git,

    Can I ask, IYHO is football and snooker etc watchable on your PD30 and where do you get your signal from and what hardware do you use ?.

    ( I spoke to someone at Panasonic and was told all the returned TVs are sold onto staff cheap, and became quite defensive when I asked if the PD range was suffering a lot of returns and would only say there is no recognised fault)
     
  15. Tight Git

    Tight Git
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    As you know from this forum, PD30's seem to vary alarmingly in quality so, being a careful git as well as a tight one, I bought mine from John Lewis just in case!

    Fortunately I seem to have a good one.

    My viewing is from a Panasonic DSB40 Digibox connected RGB using an Ixos scart lead.

    I'm not into football but I do support the English Cricket Team (well somebody has to !), and cricket, using Acuity is excellent.

    Snooker, however, is unwatchable in Acuity mode.

    100Hz Plus is much better, although the line structure is then visible (soon forgotten once the match gets going).

    Hope this answers all your queries.
     
  16. gtfc

    gtfc
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    Thanks for the info,

    I too got mine from JL, I'm a milion miles from your "excellent Cricket picture". Apart from when the image is pretty static anything which moves in all scanning modes just goes grainy and fuzzy. What confuses me is I get a great picture from Pal Prog scan via component. Because of the geometry and colour splodges it is being replaced but Panasonic UK don't have more stock until sometime in June and they are unable to be at all specific.
     
  17. Wayne Moule

    Wayne Moule
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    What's the line structure?
     
  18. Tight Git

    Tight Git
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    gtfc,

    Sorry to hear of your problems but at least you went the JL route.

    Believe me, if you can get a good one, the PD30 is superb.

    Wayne,

    Get up close to the picture and you'll see it's made up of horizontal lines.

    Move further back until they just disappear and that's the correct viewing distance.

    Most pictures have 625 lines (it's actually 585 but lets not quibble among friends!) but Panasonic Acuity increases this to 833 by clever processing.

    So, my favourite chair is at the correct distance for Acuity (833), but I can see the line structure when I'm watching the snooker on 100Hz Plus (625).

    Hope this helps.
     
  19. Wayne Moule

    Wayne Moule
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    Oh, that line structure, I thought you were on about a design feature of the TV.

    :thumbsup:
     
  20. Tight Git

    Tight Git
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    No problem, Wayne.

    To mis-quote "Bones" in Star Trek:

    I'm an engineer, not a designer!

    Best wishes.
     
  21. Maxi_TK96

    Maxi_TK96
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    Something which my 36PW9618 doesn't have when using PixelPlus mode :clap:
     
  22. Tight Git

    Tight Git
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    I didn't think gloating was allowed on the Forum. :nono:

    :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
     
  23. Maxi_TK96

    Maxi_TK96
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    Let me rephrase the answer then: generally it isn't supposed to be there unless something has gone wrong. Oversampling is one way to get rid of the thing but on the other hand I haven't seen it visible on the majority of modern televisions (HQ100 not included there where the line structure was visible).

    Edit: Panny is unknown to me. As far as Philips tellys (36PW9527, 36PW9527, 36PW9618) go line structure has never been an issue.
     

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