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Is DVI The way ahead?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by Stellavision, Oct 20, 2004.

  1. Stellavision

    Stellavision
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    I'm looking at buying a new dvd player to replace my Tosh.
    The Denon 1910-S has caught my attention, available from didital direct for £220.
    What caught my attention about this model is it's DVI out connectivity.
    Is this the way forward for dvd players and is it better to look at using a player with dvi out rather than component?
    I just happen to have a spare dvi input on my Hitachi 42PD5200? :)
     
  2. Roughneck1

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    Mr not know much but would have said HDMI output is better as it carries digital audio too... :confused:
     
  3. Ed Selley

    Ed Selley
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    Look for a player with some form of Digital video out as HDMI players are as valid a purchase as DVI ones (and it must be said featuring on more new releases than DVI) as an HDMI equipped player will feed a DVI input as well.
     
  4. Tomaso

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    Yes. DVi is better than component (even with progressive scan).
    Digital all the way!
    The DVi replacement standard; HDMi are more and more common though..
    There has been reports of some sync problems with the HDMi standard when comining sertain brands, and there has been som talk about a new HDMi standard; HDMi2.
    HDMi is also sensitive to cable lengths, wich I have experienced myself.
     
  5. Rob20

    Rob20
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    Though that doesn't necessarily matter as long as he has a seperate home cinema set up. Also, he states that he has a free dvi input on his tv, but nothing about an hdmi input. Does that tv have both digital video inputs? seems unlikely.
     
  6. Stellavision

    Stellavision
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    Just seen the Denon DVD-2910 which has HDMI but at £500 it is more than I am wanting to spend at the moment.
    I was under the impression that my Hitachi is HD ready via the dvi.
     
  7. AML

    AML
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    Personally I preffer DVi To HDMI.
    I think HDMI looks smaller and cheaper than DVI.

    Also main point for me is the fact that DVI focuses purely on Picture. HDMI splits its bandwith for both pic and sound.
    I preffer to use a cable that focuses on either sound or picture.

    The only good thing about HDMi is that it will be easy to use for the average punter.

    I really dont see the need to use HDMI for sound anyway coz theres nothing wrong with coaxial.

    Besides, how do you conect a cable like HDMI to both, your TV and your digital amp?
    I bet they never thought about that one!
    Also there are no HDMI amps out yet anyway.
     
  8. Jeff

    Jeff
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    SDI is best for me, it's far purer than DVI or HDMI.
     
  9. Sigismund

    Sigismund
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    I think this is probably best suited to the DVD Players forum, so I'll move it there :cool:
     
  10. vonhosen

    vonhosen
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    SDI here too :)
     
  11. NaimBoy

    NaimBoy
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    OK - in no particular order......

    Is DVI better than Component

    Theoretically, and 'Yes' in most cases but there have been examples of people preferring the picture when using Component. Another of those try it and see situations I'm afraid, but as I'm not aware of a DVI player that doesn't also have component output then it's not the end of the world.

    DVI vs HDMI

    If cable length is not an issue then there appears to be no real difference. As long as both devices are HDCP compliant then connecting DVI to HDMI or vice versa isn't an issue for video.

    If memory serves correctly, the maximum length for a DVI cable is 8-10m. One of the design parameters for HDMI was that it should work up to 15m (and mine does..... :) ). Bear in mind that any quality video cable this length is not going to be cheap !

    HDMI for Audio

    There are two versions of HDMI :

    v1 is video only and is supported by all current HDMI equipped DVD players

    v1.1 supports video and multi-channel audio. The only DVD player that currently supports HDMI v1.1 is the new Arcam FMJ DV29 at approx £1600.

    At the moment there are no AV amps that support HDMI audio.

    SDI

    Agreed - superb picture, but I suspect the £1k for the mod & video processor required might be a tad over budget ;)

    Mark
     
  12. begu

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    From AVS forum / ae700 thread:

    "HDMI does have a few additional advantages,
    1) HDMI can handle 10bit RGB and 12bit YPbPr. DVI is only 8 bit RGB.
    2) HDMI can handle 480i and 576i. DVI can't.
    3) Also, some broken DVD players introduce black crush with an HDMI/DVI cable or converter, so having HDMI on the projector prevents the need for using that cable or converter. Admittedly this is do to an implementation issue."

    Well, so it seems, that the HDMI will transfer better videoquality due to the more bits for the colors (if the source is right, of course, but I do think so).

    But I guess that the transmitter (DVD player etc.) must have the outputcircuits for the HDMI capable of doing the 10 or 12 bits too. And of course the receiver (projector, TV) has to do the 10/12 bits too.
     
  13. CrispyXUK

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    Im gonna leave digital until Hi Def players are available
     
  14. AML

    AML
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    You still havent answered how you are supposed to conect an HDMI 1.1 cable to both your amp and your display?

    One cable cant be conected to 2 sources. And if you have to feed it to say, your amp then from your amp to your TV, wouldnt that require 2 cables. And wouldnt that cause the picture to be filtered?
     
  15. Stellavision

    Stellavision
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    I am guessing that a split audio / visual feed would come in the form of something like an Xbox hi def / advanced av kit, which has one cable coming from the source and a box on the end with the appropriate audio/vision outputs.
    I am of course just guessing.
     
  16. ianh64

    ianh64
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    You can daisy chain HDMI much like you can SCART. Do you just plug on into another into another and it works itself out for itself. An HDMI equipped digital AV amp will atleast provide HDMI passthrough. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_3/cedia-2004/images/cedia-2004-pioneer-receivers.jpg

    As for HDMI sharing bandwidth between video and audio. This is not the case are both are autonomous channels. And HDMI V1 can handle audio, just not multichannel audio, which was introduced in the 1.1 spec. It can also handle control signals between devices.

    So HDMI is more than a connector to a display like DVI is, it is a digital interconnect for connecting many different types of AV equipment together.
     
  17. gandley

    gandley
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    and if the amp dosent have HDMI, you can still send the signal via coax or i-link etc so sound will not be issue.

    (think HDMI projectors for example. no sound comes out of those, so u just use i-link (to the amp)which is basicly what the audio side off HDMI is)

    Also dvi dvd players have a nasty habit of forcing pal material to 60hz which isnt good. HDMI gives the option for 50hz pal which is ideal
     
  18. AML

    AML
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    I understand that Amps have pass thru, however, I still feel that they "filter" out the signal.

    As for daisy chaining. How exactly does that work with an HDMI cable?
    It only has one conection. Unless you buy some kind of splitter cable.

    Again, dodgy filtering in my opinion.

    Im not familiar with Scart as i dont live in the UK anymore and never did like it to begin with so i cant tell how it would daisy chain.

    I still say keep audio and video separate. DVi for picture and HDMI for sound if you will!
     
  19. mray

    mray
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    I have a Momitsu dvd player with DVI and component out.
    I can't see any difference between the two. (Yes I know it's a cheap player, but you should still be able to see a difference if DVI is supposed to be purely digital).
     
  20. John Dawson

    John Dawson
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    In HDMI the general idea is that the AV reciever will be a repeater. So you send one cable from the DVD player to the receiver and another from the receiver to the display.

    In this scenario the receiver has to be HDMI licensed with its own keys.

    However there will be no filtering or degradation if it is implemented correctly. The video part of the signal is unaltered when audio is being carried. All HDMI can carry SPDIF type audio, which appeals to TV makers who can port video and audio from a set top box to the TV with one cable.

    Incidentally you cannot passively "split" an HDMI or DVI signal - it runs blisteringly fast and is carefully configured to run down a transmission line.

    It is pointless to run DVI for video and HDMI for audio.

    John Dawson (Arcam)
     
  21. Stellavision

    Stellavision
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    I'm awaiting arrival of the Denon dvd-1910, so I will experiment and decide whether I prefer component or dvi.
     
  22. X3ELS

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    my findings are that HDMI (read DVI) done well will result in an excellent picture, superior to component and equal to SDI in many cases (Arcam).

    A poorly implemented HDMI (read DVI) will result in a worse image (ringing, edge bleed etc) than decent interlaced component and a significant way behind SDI (Denon).

    I have done these tests and am not the only one with these findings. Just because its digital does not mean that its better!!!
     
  23. gandley

    gandley
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    MMMMMMM having compared those makes u mention that sounds complete tosh.... sorry but the images ive seen dont agree with your view.
    You could add pioneer HDMI in there as well. all three makes produce an image via HDMI that is almost identical.

    Even when viewed via my PJ the choice is a nightmare to make as they are so close. If anything id say Denon leads then arcam then pioneer, but not based on image sharpness etc, as there all top notch but more on chroma issues etc and SACD support, i-link and feature count. somthing in my mind arcam is short off.
    As a further instance, the A11 has as the experts agree one of, if not the best analog stage in the business, yet the 3910s image is superior(as also some experts agree) via HDMI.

    Agree totaly with your last statment though.
     
  24. X3ELS

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    I think you will find if you ask around many have had the same result as me. In particular i am talking about the Denon A11, the component outputs are actually better than the DVI as it contains ringing.

    Tak a look at the SDI though and its superb :) email Jim at Lumagen and he will tell you his results were the same as mine.
     
  25. Stellavision

    Stellavision
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    I need a 3M dvi cable to connect my denon when it arrives. Would it be a good idea to see how the picture is using a 10M cable I have already, or do cables this length not perform as well as the shorter ones? I don't want to spend money on a dvi cable and finish up going back to component.
     
  26. gandley

    gandley
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    AHH, i see what your saying now and that makes sense. U did not specify a model, so i took it you were taking the make as a whole. A11`s DVI output indeed was not great and as its component output is so good it did highlight the DVIs weakness.
     
  27. gandley

    gandley
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    I used a 10m LINDY cable with my A11 with no issues, i now use it to connect the PC to the PJ when i need it, again with no issues
     
  28. Stellavision

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    Ordered a 3M cable anyway. I'll just have to judge for myself the quality when everything arrives.
     

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