is dvd audio dead

[pat clancy]

hi all,just read in mag that dvd audio is finished,from sacd forum,any thought,s,pat

 

[Crustyloafer]

Not a chance, anything but. I'm constantly coming across new material available on DVD-A. It's definitely here to stay particularly when the new double sided CD/DVD-A discs become abundant.

 

[pringtef]

I'm sure Sony would like to think that. The release schedule for the first half of the year is quite interesting :-

February
Frampton, Peter - ‘Frampton Comes Alive’ (A&M)
Gaye, Marvin - ‘Let’s Get It On’ (Motown)
Neville, Aaron - ‘Nature Boy: The Standards Album’ (Verve)
Oldfield, Mike - ‘Tubular Bells 2003’ (Warner Brothers Records)
Sanborn, David - ‘timeagain’ (Verve)

March
Academy of St. James/Pini - ‘Bach: Brandenburg Concertos’ (Silverline Classics)
Bad Haggis with Rubén Blades - ‘One Special Day’ (AIX Records)
Baltimore Symphony Orchestra/Comissiona - ‘Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 4 (Silverline Classics)
Grant Geissman Quintet - ‘There and Back Again’ (AIX Records)
London Symphony Orchestra - ‘Monteux Conducts Tchaikovsky’ (Silverline Classics)
Moist - ‘Machine Punch Through - The Singles Collection’ (Silverline Records)
Porcupine Tree - ‘In Absentia’ (DTS Entertainment)
Simons, Keaton - ‘Drive Away’ (AIX Records)
Slaughter - ‘Then and Now’ (Silverline Records)
Steely Dan - ‘Gaucho’ (MCA Records)
Surf City Allstars - ‘I Get Surround’ (AIX Records)
Various - ‘Saint-Saëns: “Organ” Symphony and Franck: Symphony in D Minor’ (Silverline Classics)
Vienna State Opera Orchestra/Rossi - ‘Prokofiev: Peter and the Wolf (narrated by Boris Karloff) and the Lt. Kije Symphonic Suite’ (Silverline Classics)

April
Browne, Jackson - ‘The Naked Ride Home’ (Warner Brothers Records)
Browne, Jackson - ‘Running On Empty’ (Warner Brothers Records)
Chicago - ‘X’ (Warner Brothers Records)
Grandmaster Flash, The Furrious Five, Grandmaster Melle Mel - ‘Greatest Hits - The Furious Five - The Greatest Hits, Grandmaster Melle Mel’ (Warner Music Group/Silverline Records)
Hiatt, John - ‘Bring the Family’ (A&M)
John, Elton - ‘Goodbye Yellow Brick Road’ (Island Records)
Police, The - ‘Every Breath You Take’ (A&M)
R. Kelly - ‘Chocolate Factory’ (BMG)
Sinatra, Frank - ‘Frank Sinatra and Jobim’ (Warner Brothers Records)
Sinatra, Frank - ‘September Of My Years’ (Warner Brothers Records)
Spears, Britney - ‘In the Zone’ (BMG)
Sugar Hill Gang - ‘The Best Of Sugar Hill Gang’ (Warner Brothers Records/Silverline Records)
Utah Symphony Orchestra /Abravanel - ‘Brahms: Symphony No.1’ (Silverline Classics)
Utah Symphony Orchestra /Abravanel - ‘Mahler: Symphony No.1’ (Silverline Classics)
Utah Symphony Orchestra/Abravanel - ‘Tchaikovsky: Swan Lake’ (Silverline Classics)
Utah Symphony Orchestra /Abravanel - ‘Vaughan-Williams: Symphony No.6’ (Silverline Classics)
Who, The - ‘Tommy’ (MCA Records)

May
B 52’s – ‘Cosmic Thing’ (Warner Brothers Records)
Cars, The - ‘1st Album’ (Warner Brothers Records)
Crosby, David - ‘If I Could Only Remember My Name’ (Warner Brothers Records)
Harris, Emmylou - ‘Roses In The Snow’ (Warner Brothers Records)
Nash, Graham - ‘Songs For Beginners’ (Warner Brothers Records)
R.E.M. - ‘Green’ (Warner Brothers Records)
R.E.M. - ‘Monster’ (Warner Brothers Records)
R.E.M. - ‘New Adventures in Hi-Fi’ (Warner Brothers Records)
R.E.M. - ‘Out Of Time’ (Warner Brothers Records)
R.E.M. - ‘Up’ (Warner Brothers Records)
Stills, Stephen - ‘Stephen Sills’ (Warner Brothers Records)
Styx - ‘Cyclorama’ (Silverline Records)
Utah Symphony Orchestra/Abravanel - ‘Brahms: Symphonies Nos.2 & 3’ (Silverline Classics)
Utah Symphony Orchestra/Abravanel - ‘Fiddle Faddle, 15 Favorites by Leroy Anderson’ (Silverline Classics)
Utah Symphony Orchestra/Abravanel - ‘Rachmaninov: Symphony No.3’ (Silverline Classics)
Utah Symphony Orchestra/Abravanel - ‘Mahler: Symphony No.2’ (Silverline Classics)
Utah Symphony Orchestra/Abravanel - ‘Sibelius: Symphony Nos.1 & 4’ (Silverline Classics)
Widespread Panic - ‘Don’t Tell The Band’ (Silverline Records)
Williams, Paul - ‘Going Back There Someday’ (AIX Records)

June
Big Head Todd And The Monsters – ‘Crimes of Passion’ (Silverline Records)

July
Raitt, Bonnie – ‘Nick of Time’ (EMI Recorded Music)

 

[MartinImber]

Don't depress me my PC sound card is knackered!

 

[Hawklord]

Originally posted by MartinImber
Don't depress me my PC sound card is knackered!

still no joy then

 

[pat clancy]

phew,thanks guys,thought my machine was obselete,i,m a big motown fan,i must say the cd,s sound very harsh,will dvd,a improve on this,and when are these flippers coming out,cd/dva,a,rgrds pat

 

[MartinImber]

still no joy then

No - however FireWire worked - I gave it a quick test - I wanted to listen to LA Woman today as well!

Roll on Monday !

Nice big bill for L&G

For anyone wondering why I am posting about my sound card in a DVD-A thread - it does DVD-A!

 

[bobbypunk]

DVD-A gives back the kind of resolution that vinyl did when in stereo at full reselution but be warned alot of DVD-A material isn't @ full spec. Some are no more than 48 even in stereo

 

[pringtef]

Follow up on this one, Pat.

Phillips, the main body with Sony who developed SACD, are releasing a universal player soon.

Think this is VERY significant step in the hi res battle for supremacy. It acknowledges the format and potential of DVD audio by one of the main competitors, and pretty much leaves Sony out in the cold as a manufacturer of SACD players only in the hi res environment.

Time will tell..........

 

[MartinImber]

When I get a new home player it MUST DO BOTH

 

[alexs2]

Not dead...simply suffering from very poor advertising and confused sales pitches.

 

[sticker]

it still amazes me that you can go into major record shops and ask for DVD-A and you either get a blank look or "yes we do music DVD's". The same goes for SACD, 90% of shops haven;t got a clue what they are in this country, advertising is as Alexs2 said, very poor.

Would be interesting to know if the same is happening in the States

Regards
John

 

[gringottsdirect]

Originally posted by sticker
Would be interesting to know if the same is happening in the States.

It is same.

 

[Wasabi]

After searching in google for some information.

In terms of support and titles for SACD and DVD-A.

SACD - To date, there are over 1950 titles from 213 labels and the big ones are Sony Music Entertainment, Universal Music Group, EMI/Virgin and BMG.

To date, 28 manufacturers that has launched players . And more manufacturers are joining. In April it is forecasted that there are over 4million SACD players in use.

DVD-Audio - To date, there are 717 titles from 102 labels and the big ones are Universal Music Group, EMI, BMG and Warner Music. However there are rumours that Warner Music might pull out totally from DVD-A according to FT article.

Estimated 14million players in the market, over 160 models, from 35+ manufacturers (most Chinese branded dvd players sold in China and abroad e.g. Nintaus, Shinco, Mico, Ronin etc supports DVD-A, not SACD) units capable of DVD-Audio has been OBS "produced", in various formats and shapes, which is a big edge over SACD.

The absolute best site for multichannel news, titles, reviews and artist list availability is www.highfidelityreview.com.

Another site are www.sa-cd.net, for hundreds of reviews on sacd titles, and it also lists every sacd title available.

Wasabi

 

[ncpl]

I was in Jo'burg, SA last week and checked in a store in Sandton Sq - city centre. They did have a really small section of DVD-A and one for SACD. In the classical dept, they were all mixed together, so, you have to know what you are looking for.

Virgin in Camberley, Surrey, Uk stock neither. Ludites !!!

 

[pringtef]

One area that stands DVD Audio in better stead for the consumer is that it can be read already by pcs with a standard dvd rom drive, though a soundcard is required that is capable of playing the high resolution.

Of course, other parts of the music industry may say that's exatly why they prefer SACD over DVD Audio!

Think you also need to look at the number of titles in relation to how the technology has been available.

From what i can recall, SACD has been out since 1999, so DVD Audios still got a bit of time to make up ground!

 

[Wasabi]

I doubt DVD-Audio camp will be able to make up a lot of ground. I have looked at how the titles and labels have been increasing and even now where SACD is in their 5th year, labels are signing up quicker at their camp then in the DVD-A camp. Most the big lables are present at both camps, but Sony - obviously won't release anything in DVD-A camp, while Warner doesn't seem to have any interest at all releasing in these sound formats.

I do find it strange, that most hifi/music/industry experts seems to favour DVD-A as a sound technology, but labels doesn't seem to care about their opinions, when they choose a format.

Wasabi

 

[MartinImber]

One area that stands DVD Audio in better stead for the consumer is that it can be read already by pcs with a standard dvd rom drive, though a soundcard is required that is capable of playing the high resolution.

Roll on Monday my replacement SOund CArd will be fitted

 

[Stereo Steve]

I'd like to see them both survive. I have a Pio 747 and many examples of both. I have to say that DVD-A gets my vote for sound quality but I feel that may be down the way my player handles SACD. Only now have Sony released a player that can deal with it in a fully digital way, as was intended. I would love to hear that.

The big, big problem that DVD-A has against hybrid SACD is lack of compatability. I can take my DSOTM disk in the car, in my walkman etc. I can stick it on a press play and I'm away.

To listen to a DVD-A I usually have to turn the TV on although not always. So I have to remember which disks need the TV and which don't.

Personally, I still think what I have always thought, SACD will survive, not sure if DVD-A will. One hope is the sheer amount of players coming out that can handle it. Mind you, most amps can do DTS 96.

 

[pringtef]

As a slight aside, has anyone heard DVD A of The Flaming Lips - Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots?

Probably the best use multi channel I've heard.

 

[nthornhill]

Universal Music (DG/Decca/Philips labels) has started bringing a reasonable selection of good classical recordings to SACD. Mostly analogue masters from their back catalogue at the moment, but that is no bad thing if the SACD mastering can convert them directly to DSD...

IIRC most of the early universal players chose to "downsample" DSD data into 192KHz PCM format for further processing - in fact some still do today! Presumably this was done due to limitations in the "universal " DACs...

Is DVD-A dead? No way. Is it catching on just yet? Also no.

In my local CD store (in Holland) there are a couple of hundred SACDs (mostly hybrids) for sale, but only about 20-30 DVD-As. Of course, I live in a country with big ties to Philips Electronics, so that is bound to influence the stocking choices of retailers.

 

[Crustyloafer]

Originally posted by pringtef
As a slight aside, has anyone heard DVD A of The Flaming Lips - Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots?

Probably the best use multi channel I've heard.

Yeah definitely one of the best I've heard yet. Also the The Band:The Last Waltz is superb.

 

[Stereo Steve]

Steely Dan, Everything must go is a fine piece of recording work.

 

[pat clancy]

hi,a lot of interest in this post,i,m not surprised,seems people are split on dvd audio surviving,So when are these flippers coming,cd/dvd a discs,if they come i beleive dvd a will bloom,but they must come soon,they need to flush market and dvd a will live,rgrds pat

 

[nthornhill]

I heard that DVD-A / CD hybrids will be too thick to fit in slot-in CD players (much thicker than CDs or SACDs)... so for example you won't be able to use them in a car CD player.

Anyone know if this is definitely the case?

 

[Crustyloafer]

I would have presumed they would have made them within the tolerances of a single disc in order to maximise distribution.

 

[Jules]

I only discovered what could be a problem for SACD the other day.
SACD discs don't play in DVD players! At least not in any of the 3 DVD players in our house.

You may think... "of course they don't, unless the DVD player is a 'universal' machine".
But my point is that many people now are using their DVD players as the centrepeice of their entertainment system, and use them to play CD's aswell.
I don't believe SACD can therefore claim to be truly backwards compatible.

DVD Audio discs on the other hand, will play in all DVD players.
And, when these hybrid DVD Audio / CD discs come into play, they'll play in CD players too! Case closed.

However, from my understanding SACD has the greater potential in terms of absolute sound quality, but I'm in the DVD Audio camp and would rather that succeeded.

 

[Crocodile JD]

However, from my understanding SACD has the greater potential in terms of absolute sound quality, but I'm in the DVD Audio camp and would rather that succeeded.

I thought it was actually the other way round??

Knew I'd seen it some where. I've edited this post to include this Link to a very interesting article on the subject

Cheers

Croc

 

[Underscore]

Originally posted by Jules
DVD Audio discs on the other hand, will play in all DVD players.
And, when these hybrid DVD Audio / CD discs come into play, they'll play in CD players too! Case closed.

This is not true. DVD-V audio discs - using dts, DD or even 16-bit PCM - will play in all players, but that's not what we are talking about. DVD-A will only play in players compatible with the format - and none of the 3 players that I have owned have been. Most people will need to buy a new player to play either format.

Originally posted by Jules
However, from my understanding SACD has the greater potential in terms of absolute sound quality, but I'm in the DVD Audio camp and would rather that succeeded.

No, SACD is the inferior format; it is bit-stream based so, at high frequencies it is no better than CDs. DVD-A, however, is multi-bit so better than CD at all frequencies. Interesting discussion of the technical differences here.

FWIW, I also hope that DVD-A succeeds as it is the better of the two formats but when has that alone resulted in commercial success? Anyone know where I can buy Betamax tapes?

_

 

[Stereo Steve]

Surely, as most SACD disks are now hybrids, they are the more compatible. The CD layer will play in any DVD player or CD player and the SACD layer will play in any SACD player.

DVD-A has some problems. Firstly, DVD is not yet associated with music. The DVD/CD hybrid is not forthcoming yet which will hold it back greatly. The cases are also a silly size, presumably to differentiate from CD's and also video DVD's.

Also, why do I need to put my TV on to play some music? Most DVD-A disks require this to differing degrees. Once the TV is on, I then have to mute the sound before I listen to the disk on the AV system or I get an echo from the TV. I don't want to be doing this if I have guests over and ust want to stick on some music.

With SACD, I put in the disk and my player is set to play the multi channel of available or the stereo if not, and away I go. I can take it in my car or walkman. The case is CD sized. Also, people with CD players can buy them and get a, usually, much better CD remaster and maybe upgrade later.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer the sound of DVD-A and still buy the disks, I just think it will be the loser in the end and it's certainly looking to be going that way.