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Is Denon x4500h powerful enough?

guruduttc

Novice Member
Greetings!

I have a question to ask you experts.
I am considering the Denon 4500h. I like the features it offers (both for cinema viewing and sound rendering) and the HEOS experience of connectivity + multiroom.

I was at my local AV shop testing it with MA silver 200 & Rel T5i and it sounded good.
I will also be testing it with a pair of KEF q700s and q550s soon.

Is the AVR in question powerful enough to drive the KEF q700 or the MA silver 200 on a regular basis?
Should I consider a more powerful AVR?

I watch movies on Netflix / Amazon Prime / Itunes via the Apple TV and the room is 13ft X 18ft

Thanks in advance

GC
 
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Deleted member 39241

Guest
Hello. How many speakers in total will you be using, do you like to listen loudly, and will you be using the system for music and films / tv?
 

guruduttc

Novice Member
Hello. How many speakers in total will you be using, do you like to listen loudly, and will you be using the system for music and films / tv?

Hello Rambles,

Thanks for the response.
The intention is to setup a 5.1 system. Options:
1. MA silver 200, MA silver centre, Rel T5i, and MA silver 100
2. KEF q700, equivalent centre and satellites

However, I will be starting with a 3.1 system.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
With a room of those dimensions I would say that it's size is a major factor in considering the Q700s or Silver 200s and they might very well overpower the room. Big floorstanders like room to breathe and perform well and simply don't like being pushing into corners and back against walls.

If you are thinking of buying new speakers then consider the KEF R300s, far easier to place and will fill your room alongside a 4500 very well indeed. As far as the other pairs the 4500 will have no trouble driving them, again because of the size of your room high volume will not be a problem. For music though I find Denons very disappointing, I have a X6200 but use a stereo amp to drive the front pair.

You certainly don't need floorstanders for bass as that duty is being passed to a sub so you should think about speakers that are going to give you the best mid and high ranges and a good shelfmount, such as the 300s will be better for that than the Silvers or the Q700s.
 
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Deleted member 39241

Guest
Hello Rambles,

Thanks for the response.
The intention is to setup a 5.1 system. Options:
1. MA silver 200, MA silver centre, Rel T5i, and MA silver 100
2. KEF q700, equivalent centre and satellites

However, I will be starting with a 3.1 system.
Hi, okay in that case, I think it will be a waste of money to get the Denon 4500, when the Denon 3500 is practically identical but a lot less money. The main difference between the two is that the 4500 can process and power more speakers, but if it's only for a 5.1 system, then the 3500 would be enough. The money saved could be put towards a power amp, if you think you need it.

As you don't mention that you want to use the system for music, I think the Denon 3500 will sound very nice with your speaker options, and if you want to experiment with power amps later on down the line, then the option is there.

Also, if you want to save a bit more money (maybe to put towards a power amp) instead of the Rel T5i subwoofer, the BK range are lower cost, and at least as good. For your room size, and for a single subwoofer for movie use, I might suggest something a little bit bigger than an 8 inch 125 watt model.

The BK XXLS400 is a very popular, 12 inch 400 watt model:

XXLS400-FF

Or, if you want a smaller footprint the BK XXLS200 is a 275 watt, 10 inch model:

XLS200-DF
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
The AVRX4500 is more powerful than the AVRX3500. The 105 watt per channel (2 channels driven @ 8ohm) AVRX3500 is only marginally more powerful than the AVRX2500, but the AVRX4500 is a 125 watt per channel (2 channels driven @ 8ohm) receiver. This wouldn't make it immensely more powerful, but it is a considerable jump relative to the models below it and enough of a jump to improve its dynamic headroom. It should also ne noted that it has a lower THD rating relative to its wattage. This should result in less distortion being apparent while using the AVRX4500 at the same volume level and while powering the same speakers when compared to the AVRX3500.

The AVRX4500 also comes equipped with Auro 3D, but this wouldn't really be of any consequence given that you only intend running a 5.1 speaker configuration. It does however also include IMAX Enhanced which may be of some interest?
 
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Deleted member 39241

Guest
I disagree with Dante on this one.

The 3500 is quoted as Power Output (8 ohm, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 0.08% 2ch Drive) = 105 watts
The 4500 is quoted as Power Output (8 ohm, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 0.05% 2ch Drive) = 125 watts

That 20 watts difference and 0.03% THD difference would not make an audible or discernible difference in your room, in my opinion. Note that these figures are only when driving 2 channels, and when driving all 5 channels it will be able to output considerably less power, per channel.

The average price difference between the two models is around £500.

For £529 you could buy an Emotiva BaX A-300 (for example) which specifications are:

Power Output (both channels driven):
150 watts RMS per channel; 20 Hz – 20 kHz; THD < 0.1%; into 8 Ohms.
300 watts RMS per channel; 1 kHz; THD < 1%; into 4 Ohms.

This would give you constant power to the front two speakers, and allow the Denon more power to distribute amongst the remaining three speakers.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I disagree with Dante on this one.

Sorry but you stated that "the Denon 3500 is practically identical but a lot less money". which is not the case. The more expensive receiver uses better capacitors and other components. I'm also currently using a Yamaha RXA1050 rated 110 watts per channel. I've previously had both a Denon AVR3313 rated 125 watts and a Yamaha RXV2065 with a rating of 130 watts 2 channels driven. My listening room is relatively small yet I still perveive a difference in terms of headroom. I'm not even putting a strain upon the lower rated receiver, but it still doesn't perform as well as the more powerful models.

The fact is that the better THD rating associated with the AVRX4500 is relative to the 125 watt rating. Its THD will improve at lower volume levels and will be even better than it was at 125 watts when only needing the 109 watts associated with the AVRX3500's max rating.

It makes no odds as to how marginally the actually wattage per channel is, the higher tier unit uses better components and has a superior signal to noise ratio and THD.


Yes, adding a power amp may make the AVRX3500 equal to if not superior to the AVRX4500 in terms of power and or THD (depending upon the power amp in question), but you've to then accomodate an additional box in close proximity to the AV receiver.
 
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ShanePJ

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
The biggest bit of advice I would give though is trust your own ears with the speakers, but do not compromise on the power that drives speaker which you are hear. Believe it or not, purchasing a 2 channel amp which cost twice as much as the speakers will allow you to truly hear what those speakers can deliver. Below that and you're really just tickling them. So penny pinching at the lower end makes a bigger difference than you may realise

With Speakers we all have our own preferences. Myself, I would choose either the Monitor Audio Silver 200's or Kef Q550 over the Q700. It would be a little bit more challenging between the R300 and Q550 as both are very good and have plus and minus point. I would also choose the Silver 300 over the Silver 200, but your room really does require a that bit of sensible thought meaning that either the Silver 200's or Q500's should in practice be the best all rounders for your requirements and the only truly deciding factor should be which sound you enjoy the most. This will either mean you enjoy ear is likes a warm sound (Monitor Audio) or more detail (Kef).

The Denon/Marantz will work fine with either of these speakers, but once you have found your sound, do be careful on amplification as you can bring to much detail which shows itself as being bright and the opposite can happen with a warm sound creating an almost sluggish sounding sound which nobody would want to do.

One thing about whatever sound you enjoy, none of them are wrong as its all about you when making the choice
 
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Deleted member 39241

Guest
@dante01 It's okay, we are allowed to have different opinions, hopefully the OP will find the differing views helpful in weighing up the pros and cons to inform their purchasing choice.

Remember the title of the thread is Is Denon x4500h powerful enough? Which is why I was focusing on the power aspects of the 4500 vs the 3500.

I wouldn't get hung up on the THD figures, any distortion below 1% is not likely to be audible to the human ear, so when you are talking about 0.08% vs 0.05% it is irrelevant. I am also not that convinced that the signal to noise ratio numbers or the different / better components used between the two models would necessarily create an audible difference.
 

jpr141

Prominent Member
denon 3500 vs 4500. I suspect the 4500 has larger capacitors, if you google search enough you may be able to find out. Larger capacitors are usually put into more powerful units, it equates to better headroom and more power on tap.
 
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samsungderby

Prominent Member
Personally with a sub i would go for better quality standmounters than big floorstanders.
Check out the focal aria 906 (£749) they will blow away the kefs and silvers and you would have enough in the pot left to upgrade to an Arendal sub which will blow away the Rel.
If you can afford it the 4500 is a good upgrade on the 3500 but either would be awesome.
 

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